Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

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Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby RjBeals on Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:44 am

I think Oliver was (is) a great addition to the site. I believe he did all the map planning, whereas tom did all the graphics. IMO - the graphics were not that good, and it was the only thing keeping this map from being great. The idea is great.

So - i would suggest that Oliver not get give up, but rather solicit the foundry members for a new graphic artist. One that has not been perma-banned.
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby gimil on Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:25 am

RjBeals wrote:I think Oliver was (is) a great addition to the site. I believe he did all the map planning, whereas tom did all the graphics. IMO - the graphics were not that good, and it was the only thing keeping this map from being great. The idea is great.

So - i would suggest that Oliver not get give up, but rather solicit the foundry members for a new graphic artist. One that has not been perma-banned.


That was my thinking also. I told oliver that we can discuss alternative arrangement if he likes. If he finds a new artist I can easily reopen his thread, that isn't a problem.
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby Qwert on Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:27 am

i must say that its quite ridiculouse,that two maps is locked only because some permabaned map maker ,try to create maps, and i dont understand why is that not accept for Map foundry and for comunity in CC, or these is not aloved only for Lack and CA.
If someon can make very good map,then why is not aloved,after all with these map hes not insult nobody, expecialy when some map look good like Belgique.
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby gimil on Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:43 am

qwert wrote:i must say that its quite ridiculouse,that two maps is locked only because some permabaned map maker ,try to create maps, and i dont understand why is that not accept for Map foundry and for comunity in CC, or these is not aloved only for Lack and CA.
If someon can make very good map,then why is not aloved,after all with these map hes not insult nobody, expecialy when some map look good like Belgique.
:?


Because qwert, if you are banned from the forum why should you be allowed to work round that ban to make maps, run/join tournements, play mafia or particiapte in any competition. It sort of defeats the purpose of banning someone in the first place, doesn't it?
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby The Neon Peon on Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:28 pm

As I said before, I believe the purpose of the ban was to stop the spam which t-o-m constantly posted in the forums

With being allowed to work on maps or not, that goal is achieved.
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby gimil on Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:54 pm

The Neon Peon wrote:As I said before, I believe the purpose of the ban was to stop the spam which t-o-m constantly posted in the forums

With being allowed to work on maps or not, that goal is achieved.


No, the purpose of any forum ban is to remove someone from the forum community. The reason he earned his forum ban was for spamming or trolling or whatever it was :). Being removed from the forum community means you loose all the privlages to all the little things you can do on the forum.
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby demonfork on Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:13 pm

gimil wrote:
The Neon Peon wrote:As I said before, I believe the purpose of the ban was to stop the spam which t-o-m constantly posted in the forums

With being allowed to work on maps or not, that goal is achieved.


No, the purpose of any forum ban is to remove someone from the forum community. The reason he earned his forum ban was for spamming or trolling or whatever it was :). Being removed from the forum community means you loose all the privlages to all the little things you can do on the forum.


Wrong, the problem was with spamming and trolling, the ban SOLVED that problem!

Has there been any problems with spamming and trolling in the "Research and Conquer" map development, before or more importantly since toms ban?

Seems silly to me to not allow the completion of this map!
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby gimil on Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:25 pm

demonfork wrote:
gimil wrote:
The Neon Peon wrote:As I said before, I believe the purpose of the ban was to stop the spam which t-o-m constantly posted in the forums

With being allowed to work on maps or not, that goal is achieved.


No, the purpose of any forum ban is to remove someone from the forum community. The reason he earned his forum ban was for spamming or trolling or whatever it was :). Being removed from the forum community means you loose all the privlages to all the little things you can do on the forum.


Wrong, the problem was with spamming and trolling, the ban SOLVED that problem!

Has there been any problems with spamming and trolling in the "Research and Conquer" map development, before or more importantly since toms ban?

Seems silly to me to not allow the completion of this map!


No one said he can't complete it, it jsut simply wont be contining while t-o-m is still involved. I will continue to assume he is still invloved until oliver gets in contact with me to discuss the issue.

If the thread wasn't locked we would simple have another argument on our hands which would be 'Why is t-o-m not allowed to do one map but he is allowed to do another?'
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby SuicidalSnowman on Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:30 pm

I'm inclined to agree, there were no posts from this t-o-m character (I am little new around here, sorry if I do not know who he is) and this map is looking amazing (at least the gameplay side of it) so I think it is a shame to ban it or stop work on it.

Also, does this mean that if I want to make a map but my brother who does better photoshop than me works on it I should be banned for being a multi? What happens if Yeti ever does something to get banned, I suppose the site would shut down as almost everyone uses BOB!

Hey, you guys are the mods, I guess you know best, again, I just think it is a shame to lose this map.
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby gimil on Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:33 pm

SuicidalSnowman wrote:I'm inclined to agree, there were no posts from this t-o-m character (I am little new around here, sorry if I do not know who he is) and this map is looking amazing (at least the gameplay side of it) so I think it is a shame to ban it or stop work on it.

Also, does this mean that if I want to make a map but my brother who does better photoshop than me works on it I should be banned for being a multi? What happens if Yeti ever does something to get banned, I suppose the site would shut down as almost everyone uses BOB!

Hey, you guys are the mods, I guess you know best, again, I just think it is a shame to lose this map.


I can't stess enought, the map isn't 'shut down' if oliver wants to continue without t-o-m he jsut needs to let me know who (if there will be someone different) is now working his graphics. Then we can open the thread and let it go on.
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby Kotaro on Tue Dec 23, 2008 3:46 pm

demonfork wrote:
Wrong, the problem was with spamming and trolling, the ban SOLVED that problem!

Has there been any problems with spamming and trolling in the "Research and Conquer" map development, before or more importantly since toms ban?

Seems silly to me to not allow the completion of this map!


Yes, the problem was solved. BUT. A ban is not simply a "you did this, and you can't do just that anymore". A ban is "you did this, you no longer have access to the forums in anyway, shape, or form". The map can still be made, just t-o-m can have ZERO involvement.

Honestly, I think the mods are being extremely easy on Oliver. On every other forum I am a part of, if you post for a banned person, or let anything from a forum banned person onto the forums, you yourself are banned. gimil made the right choice here.
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby Qwert on Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:23 pm

I can't stess enought, the map isn't 'shut down' if oliver wants to continue without t-o-m he jsut needs to let me know who (if there will be someone different) is now working his graphics. Then we can open the thread and let it go on

Why will some other map maker who is not banned,take to create map for Oliver? If i dont banned i will take by my self to create map. But T-o-m is banned and he need someon to post instead hem . He is not punish for making maps he punish because spaming, and i think that you need to alove Cena and Oliver to continue maps with t-o-m graphic. If T-o-m want to contribute in these way to create maps, then these is not for punishment,these is for =D> .
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby OliverFA on Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:26 pm

First of all, thanks everybody for you support.

Second, I have to say that I am not angry. I am... dissapointed. Once again, there is a crisis, a problem (or wathever you want to call it) here at CC and moderator's actions instead of solving the problem, make it worse. Looks like CC likes to shoot its own foot.

I would had appreciated a word or two letting me know that I was breaking a rule before using methods so direct and expeditive. Honestly, I don't like to be treated like a criminal. If CC is puting some bariers in MY map (It was MY idea and not t-o-m's. Remember?) I have a hard time finding reasons to continue with development.

By the way. Even if it was my idea and not t-o-m's, I fail to see what is bad about he wanting to give his time and effort in creating an addition to the site. From my point of view. That can only be seen as generosity. When someone is banned from a place (either if it's his fault or not) the normal reaction is very far from wanting to continue adding to the site.

Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby gimil on Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:27 pm

qwert wrote:
I can't stess enought, the map isn't 'shut down' if oliver wants to continue without t-o-m he jsut needs to let me know who (if there will be someone different) is now working his graphics. Then we can open the thread and let it go on

Why will some other map maker who is not banned,take to create map for Oliver? If i dont banned i will take by my self to create map. But T-o-m is banned and he need someon to post instead hem . He is not punish for making maps he punish because spaming, and i think that you need to alove Cena and Oliver to continue maps with t-o-m graphic. If T-o-m want to contribute in these way to create maps, then these is not for punishment,these is for =D> .


Yes he was banned for spamming, the concequences were forum expulsion.
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby SuicidalSnowman on Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:32 pm

gimil wrote:
SuicidalSnowman wrote:I'm inclined to agree, there were no posts from this t-o-m character (I am little new around here, sorry if I do not know who he is) and this map is looking amazing (at least the gameplay side of it) so I think it is a shame to ban it or stop work on it.

Also, does this mean that if I want to make a map but my brother who does better photoshop than me works on it I should be banned for being a multi? What happens if Yeti ever does something to get banned, I suppose the site would shut down as almost everyone uses BOB!

Hey, you guys are the mods, I guess you know best, again, I just think it is a shame to lose this map.


I can't stess enought, the map isn't 'shut down' if oliver wants to continue without t-o-m he jsut needs to let me know who (if there will be someone different) is now working his graphics. Then we can open the thread and let it go on.


Thanks for the clarification, I guess I skimmed over that part. Good luck Oliver, I would do it for you if I could!
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby gimil on Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:38 pm

I hope someone else will do it for him. I would hate to have this settle on someone who doesn't deserve it, unfortunalty, hard decisions come from time to time.
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby Qwert on Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:40 pm

Gimil are you make these decision,or you get instruction from top?
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby Kotaro on Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:42 pm

qwert wrote:Gimil are you make these decision,or you get instruction from top?


What does that matter? gimil was put incharge of here for a reason. I don't see why he needs authority from the top to do anything. Oliver, it sucks that your map has been paused until you find a new graphics designer; I've been watching the map and would have loved to play it sooner rather than later. However, using a forum banned member to assist you is like posting for him, and that's really a no-no of forums.
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby gimil on Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:43 pm

qwert wrote:Gimil are you make these decision,or you get instruction from top?


The issue was brought up by myself and MrBenn. We didn't think that a banned map maker should be allowed to start new maps. The thread was locked until we got some clarification of the issue because we were not sure what the policy was. Lackattack gave the go ahead for the shut which at the time was only for 'La Belgique'. After that word got out that he was working on another map which I tracked down to be 'Research & Conquer' which I took the step of locking down.
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby Qwert on Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:52 pm

So you track hem like some criminal,and he only want to create maps, these is sad,and wrong, its remind me to mine country when people whas punish for good things.
Well then t-o-m next time need to use hes email address and to send maps to people who want to help hem to create map in secret,instead to use PM here in CC.
I dont understand why you even alove hem to finish Madagascar? You need to strictly stick with these permabaned rules and to remove everything what permabaned man posted.
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby nagerous on Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:54 pm

gimil, I know you want to exert your authority but I think you are making a big mistake here. T-o-m was never forum banned for anything he did in the map foundry, and was allowed to finish his madagascar map. Reverend_kyle another banned user was allowed to finish his france map. Both threads would benefit the CC community more than enforcing the rules in the grand scheme of things. How you cannot see this is beside me.

As Oliver put it, this is disappointing.
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby OliverFA on Tue Dec 23, 2008 4:57 pm

qwert wrote:
I can't stess enought, the map isn't 'shut down' if oliver wants to continue without t-o-m he jsut needs to let me know who (if there will be someone different) is now working his graphics. Then we can open the thread and let it go on

Why will some other map maker who is not banned,take to create map for Oliver? If i dont banned i will take by my self to create map. But T-o-m is banned and he need someon to post instead hem . He is not punish for making maps he punish because spaming, and i think that you need to alove Cena and Oliver to continue maps with t-o-m graphic. If T-o-m want to contribute in these way to create maps, then these is not for punishment,these is for =D> .


And why would Oliver want to use the services of another mapmaker? I have only found from t-o-m collaboration, good work (in the form of the maps you saw) and a wish to contribute to this site that I cannot understand. If I was banned, I would not want to contribute to the site. As a matter of fact, if my thread was locked without me receiving a single warning that I was doing anything wrong, I wouldn't want to continue with the map either.

As I said, I am not angry. I am dissapointed. I dont like to work for people that don't appreciate my work, or put unneeded barriers on its development simply because they are overzealous in the way of interpreting rules. When such things happen, I just tend to move on.
Last edited by OliverFA on Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby OliverFA on Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:04 pm

qwert wrote:So you track hem like some criminal,and he only want to create maps, these is sad,and wrong, its remind me to mine country when people whas punish for good things.
Well then t-o-m next time need to use hes email address and to send maps to people who want to help hem to create map in secret,instead to use PM here in CC.
I dont understand why you even alove hem to finish Madagascar? You need to strictly stick with these permabaned rules and to remove everything what permabaned man posted.


I couldn't have said better myself.

What happens with you, guys? We know that t-o-m is a young boy, but you seem to be his same age. To me looks like it is a personal thing. You simply don't want him to "win" you by overcoming that "permaban". Each time he does something well you just get even angrier, because it is more difficult to keep the permaban. But of course, you are not going to allow him to "win". From the personal point of view, it's a valid choice. From the business point of view, is a really wrong choice. And even from the personal point of view, your way to celebrate Christmas is to piss a pair of mapmakers in order to continue your personal vendetta with t-o-m.

And talking about Christmas... aren't you feeling at least a little bit touched by Christmas spirit? I guess not...
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Re: Research & Conquer (OliverFA & t-o-m)

Postby Kotaro on Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:08 pm

So basically, what nag and some others are saying, is that t-o-m should be allowed to continue, because he didn't do anything in the Map Foundry?

So if I come here, flame someone, should I be banned from here, but allowed to make tournaments? Post Callouts? Make Clans? After all, I only flamed you here.

That makes no sense. If t-o-m wanted to make maps, he should have learned what spamming is defined as, and not done it. Period.
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A Public thank you to qwert

Postby OliverFA on Tue Dec 23, 2008 5:18 pm

A couple of weeks ago, qwert and myself a little quarreling regarding my (*) map in the foundry. However, today he has voiced his opinion in my defense against some unfair doings. I just want to publically thank qwert for being so kind and nice. qwert, you are a real gentleman!

(*) Yes, it is mine wathever others say. But even if it wasn't, it would still be unfair.
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