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Re: Infection: Day 3: Night Raid (7/9)

Postby jgordon1111 on Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:39 pm

Iron Butterfly wrote:
jgordon1111 wrote:Ok great,I am really not sure it got twisted around to where I dont have a name. I asked vodean about the name that he claimed because it was not in HALO anywhere I could find.

I said my role was different because I have a HALO recognizable name.

My thoughts on vodean are this,Now infected hence the title of this game. Also why I asked if we could still vote MIA's.

@ jak an answer please.

BTW I AM Commander keyes, Miranda keyes daughter of captain Jacob keyes,town tracker and I have tracked 2 of you 1 each night and what I got back was you didnt do anything for a night time action.Ergo you are good soldiers.

So by my count I can Identify 4 who are not scum and an MIA. p.s. pancake is number 4 unfortunately.

So stand down or advance and be recognized as scum.


You cant say you tracked someone and offer nothing. we are down to 7 people and do not know what we are up against. Who are the good soldiers and why would you hold that info back seeing how you have been forced to claim.

Second what set off my alarms initially is that you said you "cross checked" Vodeans claim with both humans and alien. The alien part is what set me off. Please explain.


Well IB I will give you away then beings you are who I tracked last night,I tried to hint that to you in a previous post by referring to you as soldier.

And by cross checked all you have to do is go to wiki Halo characters it gives you the good guys and the bad guys, then read the story line and you gwet all characters both good guys and bad guys.

QoH stand down. I didnt come forward for your and IB's protection. I tracked you N1. the scene does not have anyone being role blocked flavor.

That leaves 3 I dont know about.

@ DIM PCM was identified as VT per the death scene, The game is to small to have more than 2 scum,it would be out of balance. Vodean is now suspect with the infection especially if a scum role has cult leader powers.
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Re: Infection: Day 3: Night Raid (7/9)

Postby jgordon1111 on Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:41 pm

Sorry second post,most of the time even when forced to claim you try to not automatically give out info on possible town players, it makes them the next easy targets.
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Re: Infection: Day 3: Night Raid (7/9)

Postby DiM on Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:06 pm

jgordon1111 wrote:@ DIM PCM was identified as VT per the death scene, The game is to small to have more than 2 scum,it would be out of balance. Vodean is now suspect with the infection especially if a scum role has cult leader powers.


pcm wasn't identified as anything. he's simply dead. the scene does say he was a sargeant on the ship but that only hints he had a power role (since a sargeant is higher ranked than a soldier). however it doesn't say if he's town or mafia.

vodean on the other hand was clearly identified as a VT and he's missing in action presumably dead so he clearly isn't scum.

again,these are more inconsistencies that an experienced mafia player should not have. i'm growing more and more suspicious.


back to the tracking part. you say you tracked down Qoh in N1 and IB in N2 and both came up like they didn't do anything.

still, that doesn't make them automatically town. as i said before even if you take out blocked roles they could still be a mafia (godfather/goon). so you jumping to the conclusion that they're clean only adds to my suspicion on you.

also, if the game is too small for 3 mafia then it surely is also too small for so many VTs, isn't it?
if Qoh and IB didn't do anything and they weren't blocked either then they can't be both VTs can they? cause i assume if they were town PRs they'd try to help town and not stand around idly. so if they're both VT and you add vodean (identified in the scene as VT) that would put the count to at least 3 VTs. in an experimental game (as this is supposed to be) with so few people (9) i'd expect very few VTs.

so i don't know.
at this moment i'm suspicious of you (for so many inconsistencies in your theory), of crazymilkshake5 and militant for not posting anything since this day started.

so i'd like:
1. some explanations fro jgordon for the inconsistencies
2. some thoughts from cms5 and militant who are totally submarining
3. some confirmation from IB and Qoh regarding their NAs
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Re: Infection: Day 3: Night Raid (7/9)

Postby jgordon1111 on Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:09 pm

DiM wrote:
jgordon1111 wrote:@ DIM PCM was identified as VT per the death scene, The game is to small to have more than 2 scum,it would be out of balance. Vodean is now suspect with the infection especially if a scum role has cult leader powers.


pcm wasn't identified as anything. he's simply dead. the scene does say he was a sargeant on the ship but that only hints he had a power role (since a sargeant is higher ranked than a soldier). however it doesn't say if he's town or mafia.

vodean on the other hand was clearly identified as a VT and he's missing in action presumably dead so he clearly isn't scum.

again,these are more inconsistencies that an experienced mafia player should not have. i'm growing more and more suspicious.


back to the tracking part. you say you tracked down Qoh in N1 and IB in N2 and both came up like they didn't do anything.

still, that doesn't make them automatically town. as i said before even if you take out blocked roles they could still be a mafia (godfather/goon). so you jumping to the conclusion that they're clean only adds to my suspicion on you.

also, if the game is too small for 3 mafia then it surely is also too small for so many VTs, isn't it?
if Qoh and IB didn't do anything and they weren't blocked either then they can't be both VTs can they? cause i assume if they were town PRs they'd try to help town and not stand around idly. so if they're both VT and you add vodean (identified in the scene as VT) that would put the count to at least 3 VTs. in an experimental game (as this is supposed to be) with so few people (9) i'd expect very few VTs.

so i don't know.
at this moment i'm suspicious of you (for so many inconsistencies in your theory), of crazymilkshake5 and militant for not posting anything since this day started.

so i'd like:
1. some explanations fro jgordon for the inconsistencies
2. some thoughts from cms5 and militant who are totally submarining
3. some confirmation from IB and Qoh regarding their NAs



You are correct DIM I have made a mistake,I read the last scene and reversed who was VT and who was unknown,for some reason I read it as PCM as a dead VT.

And I can only tell you the reading I got on them. Therefore I at this point am hoping they are town.

The problem with you thinking all 3 of us are scum,If I get lynched and come up scum then you know they are scum as well. They would not have both voted me. And I surely would not have said they are town it would be a quick endgame.

I am who I say I am. only you,crazy and militant are the players I have no read on.

And if you leave your votes on me scum has a chance to jump in and finish me off. So I dont really want either militant or crazy to jump in here and finish me off,Then scum goes into night and its likely endgame anyway.

The so called scum slip about names was not a scum slip,It was me making an assumption that because vodean character didnt show up on wiki,vodean was scum. therefore I was wrong about the MOD playing closer to the Characters from Halo.
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Re: Infection: Day 3: Night Raid (7/9)

Postby jgordon1111 on Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:19 pm

EBWOP I have now noticed I missed soundman in my count so thats 4 I cant count for. the subject line threw me off with the 7/9 count.

In that case,my theory about being endgamed is off as well.

To much going on not paying proper attention.
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Re: Infection: Day 3: Night Raid (7/9)

Postby jak111 on Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:29 pm

DiM wrote:either i'm right or these mafia games are making me see conspiracies everywhere.
so i'd like some input from more experienced players regarding my theory.


Congratulations DiM, you are OFFICIALLY Mafia material if all you see are conspiracies ;). You're becoming insane like the rest of us!

Anyway, sorry for not posting all day, I'm choosing not to answer most of the questions directed toward me because I cannot give away too much info, but if you read the thread title it should be obvious that Vodean is DEAD.

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT

Jgordon ~ IB, Soundman, QoH (L1)
Pancake ~
DiM
Crazy
Soundman
QoH
Iron B ~
Vodean ~
Militant ~

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch!

Deadline passed like 20 mins ago, so today ends with a NO LYNCH. Scene coming up shortly but feel free to send in your night actions!
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Re: Infection: Day 3: Night Raid (7/9)

Postby jak111 on Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:44 pm

Captain’s log
Frigate Halliday September 23rd 2552


Today the crew has grown restless. Seeing no Covenant for the entire day they took their frustrations out on one another. Bickering back and forth like dogs. I’ve sent them to bed early today to stop the brawls occurring in the hallways. Perhaps with better luck, tomorrow we’ll have fortune on our side.

Another reason why we’ve sent them to bed early tonight was because Vodean’s body has finally been found. His body has been mutilated past recognition, only his dog tag marked him of who he once was. His face is full of blood and skull bone. His left eye was missing and his right eye seemed to have been crushed with some sort of bludgeon object. His left arm was torn from the socket post-mortem. His right arm has been cut with what seemed to have been a razor blade. The fingernail indents in his right palm suggest that this happened to him while he was still breathing. His torso has been carved open with what the doctors say was a scalpel. Hs gut’s… holdings… were no where to be found but they have been cleanly cut out with the scalpel or so it seems. His pelvis area has been impaled by a larger than normal needle. Both of his legs have been what seems to have been sawed off and sprinkled with salt.

After a long analysis and autopsy, the ships medics all agree that more than half of all of this has been done to him while he was still breathing in air. The men do not need to see this so we are sending his body down to the morgue before they awake.


Night Three START. Night ends June 30th 10:50pm EST.
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Re: Infection: Night 3: MIA turned to KIA (7/9)

Postby vodean on Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:39 am

do you guys agree that jak hates my guts? :lol:
im pretty sure he does.
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Re: Infection: Night 3: MIA turned to KIA (7/9)

Postby jak111 on Sat Jun 30, 2012 12:54 pm

vodean wrote:do you guys agree that jak hates my guts? :lol:
im pretty sure he does.


Shhh, no talking at night.
No talking when dead especially.
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Re: Infection: Night 3: MIA turned to KIA (7/9)

Postby jak111 on Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:25 am

Captain’s log
Frigate Halliday September 24th 2552


The crew have awoken this morning bright and early, ready for a fresh start. But unfortunately we didn’t find the bodies before the crew did. The first was of Iron Butterfly, a low ranking private. She was a hard working soldier found what seems to be mauled to death in the women’s bathroom. Her insides were intact but exposed, and her eyes showed that of horror in her final moments before death.

The second body was found by an engineer in the engine room. Jgordon, a high ranking commander. Her body was found between two propeller turbines… the scene… is a bit too disgusting to write about. She was barely recognizable save for a piece of skin found splattered onto the wall had his tattoo on it. A picture of a 1900’s cartoon bunny from a show they use to call Looney Toons.

[i]???
(Iron Butterfly) has been killed.
Commander Keyes (Jgordan1111) Town Tracker has been killed.

These deaths are piling up lately and I do not like it one bit. We’ll find whoever or whatever is doing this to my men and execute them on the spot. All fire teams have been have been given orders to fire at will if they come across any Covenant.

Day Four START. Day ends July 2nd 11:30am EST.
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Re: Infection: Night 3: MIA turned to KIA (7/9)

Postby QoH on Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:38 am

Oh boy. This isn't looking too good. We really need to lynch someone. For all of Gordon's slips, he ended up being a townie.

Gordon watched, apparently, me, IB and I would assume someone else before he was killed.

Now one thing bothers me, and I don't want to start pointing fingers here but it's something I feel should be said. While it is important to know what's happening during the night with people watching other people etc. DiM was the most outspoken about JG not telling us about it. Next thing you know, JG is dead. Plus, DiM is very slick the way he's been talking.

I think a little more digging needs to be done, but I'm leaning most towards voting DiM when it comes around to that.

We need some more talking though from crazy, militant and soundman.

We need 3 to lynch.
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Re: Infection: Day 4: Officer down (5/9)

Postby DiM on Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:05 pm

i have to say i'm pretty disappointed i kinda hoped one of my outlandish theories comes up as true :(
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Re: Infection: Night 3: MIA turned to KIA (7/9)

Postby DiM on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:01 pm

QoH wrote:Oh boy. This isn't looking too good. We really need to lynch someone.


i wholeheartedly agree with this. this is the first game i see where day after day we fail a lynch. i think the short deadline is the problem here. some people do not seem so active. (militant, and crazymilkshake5)

QoH wrote:Gordon watched, apparently, me, IB and I would assume someone else before he was killed.


is there a specific order for night actions? i mean if somebody targets you to be killed, do you get to perform your night action?

QoH wrote:Now one thing bothers me, and I don't want to start pointing fingers here but it's something I feel should be said. While it is important to know what's happening during the night with people watching other people etc. DiM was the most outspoken about JG not telling us about it. Next thing you know, JG is dead. Plus, DiM is very slick the way he's been talking.

I think a little more digging needs to be done, but I'm leaning most towards voting DiM when it comes around to that.


i've got nothing more with you digging around and following leads afterall that's what we're all supposed to do.
but i think the premises for your current one are wrong.
in fact you and IB were the first to ask gordon for information about who he tracked. then i asked and then soundman came. so basically everybody asked except cms and militant who weren't posting at all.

QoH wrote:We need some more talking though from crazy, militant and soundman.

We need 3 to lynch.


i agree with this too. being quiet for more than a day (militant, crazymilkshake) surely isn't right. and i doubt both of them were silenced.
more input from soundman would also be good as he hasn't posted that much but i'm more concerned about the other 2.
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Re: Infection: Day 4: Officer down (5/9)

Postby DiM on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:04 pm

oh yeah, one more thing. if i really were scummy i would have killed jgordon during the day as you, IB and soundman had already voted him and i didn't. so with gordon being at L-1 i could have easily planted my vote and killed him. so accusing me of waiting to kill him at night is silly. if i were mafia i would have lynched him, then targeted one more person at night.
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Re: Infection: Day 4: Officer down (5/9)

Postby DiM on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:16 pm

gosh, sorry for quad posting but this no edit rule is driving me insane.
so, upon doing some research it seems that militant hasn't posted anything anywhere since he last posted here on the 27th. so he came back after a 3 year pause, posted 3 times then it looks like he went away. he does seem to be playing games though. maybe he got forum banned?
crazymilkshake on the other hand has been active on the forum everyday, including in several other mafia games. so he's clearly ignoring this one.

for now FOS on CMS5
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Re: Infection: Day 4: Officer down (5/9)

Postby jak111 on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:25 pm

Prodding Militant, CMS, and soundman.
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Re: Infection: Day 4: Officer down (5/9)

Postby DiM on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:44 pm

and here comes post #5 :lol:
i've been thinking about what Qoh said that i've been outspoken about gordon and next thing gordon was dead. this is obviously false since i already explained how i could have lynched gordon if i wanted to. BUT this got me thinking.
we were 7 people alive.
me, IB, Qoh, soundman, cms5 militant and jgordon.
4 were needed for lynch and jgordon got voted by IB Qoh and soundman. so there were just 3 people left. me cms5 and militant.
cms and militant were inactive and if they were mafia i'm inclined to think they would have stepped in to vote for gordon. i mean what sort of mafia misses the chance of a free kill?
so that basically means that one of the people that voted for jgordon is clearly a mafia since jgordon wasn't a mafia himself.
that leaves IB, Qoh and soundman.
now IB is now dead, albeit we don't know his role. but since we know gordon visited him and IB didn't do anything he could probably be town. it's certainly not proof enough and he could very well be mafia but i'm inclined to see him as town at this point. (i could be wrong though).
then we have Qoh, who was also tracked by gordon and it came back that he didn't do anything. again he could very well be mafia but at this point i'm just a little bit in favour of believing him town. i'm not as sure about it as gordon was but considering the current situation ...
so that leaves soundman, unlike IB and Qoh he wasn't visited by gordon so we don't know what he did so far, plus he voted to get gordon lynched and he wasn't very active. in fact in the last 90hours (almost 4 real life days) he posted just twice. 1 was to vote gordon, and the other one was to add more pressure and incriminate gordon hoping to convince somebody else to cast the final vote.
that looks pretty scummy to me.
so i retract my FOS on CMS and award it to soundman.

FOS Soundman
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Re: Infection: Night 3: MIA turned to KIA (7/9)

Postby QoH on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:47 pm

DiM wrote:
QoH wrote:Oh boy. This isn't looking too good. We really need to lynch someone.


i wholeheartedly agree with this. this is the first game i see where day after day we fail a lynch. i think the short deadline is the problem here. some people do not seem so active. (militant, and crazymilkshake5)
24 hours is for me plenty of time since I'm off school. We need a lynch tonight.

QoH wrote:Gordon watched, apparently, me, IB and I would assume someone else before he was killed.


is there a specific order for night actions? i mean if somebody targets you to be killed, do you get to perform your night action?
Not to my knowledge. If you send in a night action, I tihnk it all gets processed.

QoH wrote:Now one thing bothers me, and I don't want to start pointing fingers here but it's something I feel should be said. While it is important to know what's happening during the night with people watching other people etc. DiM was the most outspoken about JG not telling us about it. Next thing you know, JG is dead. Plus, DiM is very slick the way he's been talking.

I think a little more digging needs to be done, but I'm leaning most towards voting DiM when it comes around to that.


i've got nothing more with you digging around and following leads afterall that's what we're all supposed to do.
but i think the premises for your current one are wrong.
in fact you and IB were the first to ask gordon for information about who he tracked. then i asked and then soundman came. so basically everybody asked except cms and militant who weren't posting at all.
Huh. I thought I recalled that you went after JG for not posting anything. Guess I was wrong on that one. Damn. Thought I was on to something! ;) JG said he kept quiet to protect me and IB, and then look what happens. IB get killed. I could very well be next.

QoH wrote:We need some more talking though from crazy, militant and soundman.

We need 3 to lynch.


i agree with this too. being quiet for more than a day (militant, crazymilkshake) surely isn't right. and i doubt both of them were silenced.
more input from soundman would also be good as he hasn't posted that much but i'm more concerned about the other 2.
They are atm more suspicious than anyone. I could see there being 2 mafia in a 9 player game.


DiM wrote:oh yeah, one more thing. if i really were scummy i would have killed jgordon during the day as you, IB and soundman had already voted him and i didn't. so with gordon being at L-1 i could have easily planted my vote and killed him. so accusing me of waiting to kill him at night is silly. if i were mafia i would have lynched him, then targeted one more person at night.

This is sound reasoning. Good call. Unless... you didn't vote JUST so you could say that, thereby erasing all potential guilt ;)

DiM wrote:gosh, sorry for quad posting but this no edit rule is driving me insane.
so, upon doing some research it seems that militant hasn't posted anything anywhere since he last posted here on the 27th. so he came back after a 3 year pause, posted 3 times then it looks like he went away. he does seem to be playing games though. maybe he got forum banned?
crazymilkshake on the other hand has been active on the forum everyday, including in several other mafia games. so he's clearly ignoring this one.

for now FOS on CMS5

I don't even think they've taken part in voting to lynch anyone. That in itself is pretty bad.

I'd like to reiterate something...

JG said he kept quiet to protect me and IB, and then look what happens. IB get killed. I could very well be next.

Someone should protect me.
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Re: Infection: Day 4: Officer down (5/9)

Postby QoH on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:54 pm

DiM wrote:and here comes post #5 :lol:
i've been thinking about what Qoh said that i've been outspoken about gordon and next thing gordon was dead. this is obviously false since i already explained how i could have lynched gordon if i wanted to. BUT this got me thinking.
we were 7 people alive.
me, IB, Qoh, soundman, cms5 militant and jgordon.
4 were needed for lynch and jgordon got voted by IB Qoh and soundman. so there were just 3 people left. me cms5 and militant.
cms and militant were inactive and if they were mafia i'm inclined to think they would have stepped in to vote for gordon. i mean what sort of mafia misses the chance of a free kill?
so that basically means that one of the people that voted for jgordon is clearly a mafia since jgordon wasn't a mafia himself.
that leaves IB, Qoh and soundman.
now IB is now dead, albeit we don't know his role. but since we know gordon visited him and IB didn't do anything he could probably be town. it's certainly not proof enough and he could very well be mafia but i'm inclined to see him as town at this point. (i could be wrong though).
then we have Qoh, who was also tracked by gordon and it came back that he didn't do anything. again he could very well be mafia but at this point i'm just a little bit in favour of believing him town. i'm not as sure about it as gordon was but considering the current situation ...
so that leaves soundman, unlike IB and Qoh he wasn't visited by gordon so we don't know what he did so far, plus he voted to get gordon lynched and he wasn't very active. in fact in the last 90hours (almost 4 real life days) he posted just twice. 1 was to vote gordon, and the other one was to add more pressure and incriminate gordon hoping to convince somebody else to cast the final vote.
that looks pretty scummy to me.
so i retract my FOS on CMS and award it to soundman.

FOS Soundman


Wow. Impressive. The only thing I'd add (as devil's advocate) is that perhaps the mafia wouldn't vote so as not to appear to BW. The people I think we need to look at are the people not posting. If you're saying that soundman only posted twice, and both were to get gordon killed, that's suspicious. I think we can forget about militant until he posts here, if he hasn't been posting in the forums at all... CMS and soundman are at the top of my list, but since we need a lynching tonight...

Vote Soundman

Something else I think we need to look at DiM, is the fact that there were 2 killings last night. Unless someone can kill 2 people at once, then we have at least 2 mafia on our hands. So we need to get it right tonight, or we lose.
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Re: Infection: Day 4: Officer down (5/9)

Postby DiM on Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:23 pm

QoH wrote:Something else I think we need to look at DiM, is the fact that there were 2 killings last night. Unless someone can kill 2 people at once, then we have at least 2 mafia on our hands. So we need to get it right tonight, or we lose.


it's not just last night. we had 2 killings in night 2 also. and this got me thinking too.
i have a crazy theory about this.

remember there was a scene where it said that some soldier named Mike was acting strange? what if this guy mike is the only Mafia in the game. but he's not a classic mafia that whacks you in the head at night.
what if he injects you with a virus that makes you go crazy and kill a random person, then you die?
basically that would give the mafia 2 kills in 1 night and it would also explain the lack of info that we have on one of the victims. the mafia guy finds out the name/role of the person he injected with the virus but then the random target remains unknown.
so Mike (Mafia) in night 2 injected vodean who randomly killed pancake (role unknown) then in night 3 Mike injected jgordon who killed IB.
i'm not exactly sure how this would work. to have things balanced and not overpower the mafia i assume jak111 randomly picks a target and then if the picked player is a VT then he's killed. if he's PR maybe the infected guy dies and the PR survives and he's given a clue on what happened. or maybe it's just a coincidence only VTs have been killed so far.
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Re: Infection: Day 4: Officer down (5/9)

Postby DiM on Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:31 pm

also i'd like jak111 to tell us what happens if militant and CMS5 don't come back to the game. i've never seen this thing happen so i'm not sure.
are they replaced? (we have just 1 reserve) does the game go on pause while we wait for another reserve?
i hope they won't be modkilled for inactivity or something like that cause that would pretty much screw up the game.

also
vote soundman.
a claim would be appreciated.
“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku
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Re: Infection: Day 4: Officer down (5/9)

Postby DiM on Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:32 pm

ebwop. forgot to add bold to the vote.
vote soundman.
“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku
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Re: Infection: Day 4: Officer down (5/9)

Postby DiM on Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:45 pm

oh poop. i just realised something. with 2 votes on soundman (me +qoh) and 2 inactive people (cms5+militant) that leaves just soundman to vote and i doubt he'll vote himself :lol:

so we have 2 options:
1. we go lynchless for another day (which would suck)
2. we vote for cms or militant who are probably town (see my post about soundman being mafia).

either one of those options kinda sucks for town. so i'd like to suggest that jak111 tries to get cms5/militant back in the game (wall them, pm them) or replace them. and do all this before the game day ends so that the new players (if the reserves come in) may get a change to read what happened, form opinions and maybe vote.
“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku
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Re: Infection: Day 4: Officer down (5/9)

Postby militant on Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:07 pm

I've been busy with a birthday party and other things. I'll re-read tomorrow and catch up. Sorry.
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Re: Infection: Day 4: Officer down (5/9)

Postby DiM on Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:14 pm

militant wrote:I've been busy with a birthday party and other things. I'll re-read tomorrow and catch up. Sorry.


tomorrow might be too late seeing as how by that time another game day will pass. :(
“In the beginning God said, the four-dimensional divergence of an antisymmetric, second rank tensor equals zero, and there was light, and it was good. And on the seventh day he rested.”- Michio Kaku
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