@Whatsausage I said i would look at several people. Most for similar reasoning. In the end, it seems very unlikely that all 3 mafia (the idea of rishaed, LB, PCM) just makes no sense for day 1 play. To link super hard like that. Specially with Jonty, which was my whole case. That would be 4 mafia. Maybe the mafia group is 4, maybe there are 2 killing powers? (this seems the most likely with jonty claiming to not have shot, no bus driver claim, and no other vig claiming kill on rishaed) Because there is so much surrounding Jonty, it really doesn't make sense to pressure the other 2 even more, specially since I have liked PCM reasoning lately. as for LB. Maybe i could push, but he seemed to be genuine with his reasoning for pulling off jonty, and pushing onto RD. (Sort of a joke at first, and went to pressure someone he felt was scum) The wagon on RD was really bad, It wasn't surprising to see RD flip the way she did. Yet there was still that feeling of "well she wasn't doing anything better than nothing" Which is a very easy thing to shield yourself from suspicion.
Because jonty is more "contested" as a person, we can learn a lot more from him. There are people who think he is town, there are people who think he is scum. This will cause discussion from this lynch. So it is very important, as the votes build up on jonty, that people who think he is town, defend him, and push for other options. It is very important if people think he is mafia, to push their opinion, and give reason. The more information, the more we can analyze.
He votes Anark AGAIN (Not sure why you guys are saying the HotShot VT read is false because you got a VT read from rishaed... he wanted Anark dead again here).
What I take note from these quotes, is that rishaed seemed very defensive for Jonty (a threat against him) and wanted Anark dead.
Now we have Whatsausage and a few saying the VT reads are wrong because rishaed flipped mafia, WHEN THE HELL DID RISHAED SPEAK DID HE EVER SOUND LIKE A VT? When RD died, some of these posts actually told me he was scum. But now rereading them and going into more detail over them I am beginning to think Storr might have a point on this whole Jonty case.
(Now I am going to use that right to change my mind I spoke of earlier and...) Unvote, Vote Jonty. You could say rishaed tried to set you up but I think he slipped now and buddied up to you. I may come back to the Jmac case again sometime, but right now I find Jonty scummier, not by his own posts but by the posts made by his potential buddy.
Highest Rank: Major:2157
"All wars are civil wars, because all men are brothers"
Whatsausage wrote:I'd like to see someone in this so-called VT group flip and see what comes up. Oh wait. Rish flipped. and he is scum. So much for the reactions clearing people of scum and PR.
Roger Dodger was in that group, claimed VT, and flipped as such. Jak isn't wrong about people likely to be Villagers or not, it's just that that observation would be most useful to pull out when one of them claimed to see if it matches what they claim. At the moment it isn't real helpful.
jak111 wrote:Spiesr, I also called you out on 1-2 sentence posts and you continue to make them.
Yep
Whatsausage wrote:Without anyone coming forward, this is all speculation with tons of possibilities.
So why did you use half your post to speculate about something and then conclude that we can't know anything about it now?
So jonty's at L-2 even though he's already claimed. I guess that means there is little support for getting another claim today. I really was interested in getting a jmac claim (or an IB claim, for that matter). I still feel RD was targeted by some scum (complimented by some policy votes) and would like to pursue that angle. Are ya'll lookin' to just go straight for the lynch??? If so, why the reluctance to get another claim? Fear of outing a town PR? I'm just a bit surprised by the voting today.
From my viewpoint we have two confirmed townies voting jmac. 1-2 town reads and some unknowns voting jonty... including a town read (jak) who switched from jmac to jonty after saying he was 90% sure of jmac's scumminess... So, why not pursue the claim, jak? Did you have a change of heart?
MudPuppy wrote:So jonty's at L-2 even though he's already claimed. I guess that means there is little support for getting another claim today. I really was interested in getting a jmac claim (or an IB claim, for that matter). I still feel RD was targeted by some scum (complimented by some policy votes) and would like to pursue that angle. Are ya'll lookin' to just go straight for the lynch??? If so, why the reluctance to get another claim? Fear of outing a town PR? I'm just a bit surprised by the voting today.
Doesn't telling someone "hey we are going to lynch this other guy today, but we need you to claim just because" feel a little weird to you? Also, I fear that if we get too distracted looking at other people we will end up not lynching Jonty again.
spiesr wrote:Doesn't telling someone "hey we are going to lynch this other guy today, but we need you to claim just because" feel a little weird to you? Also, I fear that if we get too distracted looking at other people we will end up not lynching Jonty again.
That's not what I'm saying at all. I haven't voted to lynch jonty today... I'm questioning why others are going straight for the lynch rather than trying to gather more info... I'm suggesting we pressure jmac... and not "just because"... but because he was the 2nd person to jump on the mislynch of a clear-cut townie (or at least that's how I perceived her)... and because a self-proclaimed Town PR stated he was 90% sure jmac is scum. If there is enough support to get another claim today, then an evaluation could be made on which claim is most deserving to be lynched.
Whatsausage wrote: My first thought: I am not as sold on the anark claim + reactions + RD flip = certain town for some people. I may be the only one; but I see hedging in anark's claim: he says he is a peasant, but maybe that might not be his name, and mentions "something about village", which is a no-brainer in a game called "village of secrets", of course us townsmembers have village mentioned. While it is possible that anark was worried about quoting the pm too closely, he is an experienced enough player to know that he isn't going to get modkilled for saying his actual role name. FOS anark Remembering that this claim came with two votes, I could see this as an early game attempt by scum to clear himself later by seeming to have knowledge of what an actual VT got in their pm. The people who reacted to his claim "in the proper way" who now seem to be certain town, could very well be his scummates. I'd like to see someone in this so-called VT group flip and see what comes up. Oh wait. Rish flipped. and he is scum. So much for the reactions clearing people of scum and PR.
FP'd by IB
You just announced you are either scum or a Power Role. Nice move, dip.... VTs don't have names in this game...
So either I vote you cuz you are scum or scum kills you, knowing you are a PR... Brilliant.
virus90 wrote: I think Anarkist is a valuable asset to any game.
MudPuppy wrote:From my viewpoint we have two confirmed townies voting jmac. 1-2 town reads and some unknowns voting jonty... including a town read (jak) who switched from jmac to jonty after saying he was 90% sure of jmac's scumminess... So, why not pursue the claim, jak? Did you have a change of heart?
I already said I saved the right to change my vote if I found a more scummier player and I have. Look at the posts I quoted. Rishaed, a now known to all mafia, was buddying up to the town "Vig". I think that speaks for its self. Why would scum want to protect jonty's vig claim? They could just ignore the wagon and secretly hope he gets lynched, but instead he actually attempted to defend Jonty.
I also did say 90% that means, 10% still unsure. I do not believe (do not quote me on this) that I have said Jonty is town. I said earlier he was active enough to question in the later days. But with rishaed's flip and his posts regarding the jonty D1 case send off vibes of defending his buddy to me.
Don't get me wrong, I want info from Jmac, but no point in giving scum a potential PR to kill either (like for instance if he's doc by the off chance).
So that can wait till tomorrow when we're ready to either let him live or let him hang.
Highest Rank: Major:2157
"All wars are civil wars, because all men are brothers"
jak111 wrote:I already said I saved the right to change my vote if I found a more scummier player and I have. Look at the posts I quoted. Rishaed, a now known to all mafia, was buddying up to the town "Vig". I think that speaks for its self. Why would scum want to protect jonty's vig claim? They could just ignore the wagon and secretly hope he gets lynched, but instead he actually attempted to defend Jonty.
I also did say 90% that means, 10% still unsure.... Don't get me wrong, I want info from Jmac, but no point in giving scum a potential PR to kill either (like for instance if he's doc by the off chance).
You definitely have the right to change your vote... but a 90% confidence level is exceedingly high in my book and I'm surprised you chose not to pursue the pressure you started.
jak111 wrote:I do not believe (do not quote me on this) that I have said Jonty is town.
Sorry, I could have worded that better. I was trying to say of the folks voting jonty now, I have town reads on 1-2 of them (you being one of my town reads)... not that you had a town read on jonty.
Yeah, she pretty much was. She was the epitome of a Village Idiot. I can see scum voting on her because she was an easy target to make a case on. I can see townies voting on her because of policy. I have a real hard time seeing townies voting on her because they truly thought she was scum.
Yeah, she pretty much was. She was the epitome of a Village Idiot. I can see scum voting on her because she was an easy target to make a case on. I can see townies voting on her because of policy. I have a real hard time seeing townies voting on her because they truly thought she was scum.
I agree... she was obviously town to me... hence, I defended her.
virus90 wrote: I think Anarkist is a valuable asset to any game.
spiesr wrote:Doesn't telling someone "hey we are going to lynch this other guy today, but we need you to claim just because" feel a little weird to you? Also, I fear that if we get too distracted looking at other people we will end up not lynching Jonty again.
That's not what I'm saying at all. I haven't voted to lynch jonty today...
But I am voting to lynch Jonty. That is an explanation of why I am not also pursuing other people at the same time.
StorrZerg wrote:She was confusing and uncooperative. (which doesn't mean alignment )
Anark you got any more of them reads on your lynch? who also just so happened to FOS you?
Cause that just isn't enough for me to pull off jonty...
In my eyes, Jonty may very well be scum... However, whatsausage's last post that caused me to put my vote on him sealed the deal... He said something to the effect of "we townsfolk" as if it was obvious that he was town, yet didn't have the basic town info to know that he was outing himself as scum.
virus90 wrote: I think Anarkist is a valuable asset to any game.
Even though now I am set on Jonty, I thought perhaps it's time I DID make a "List" so to speak. Of my CURRENT reads in case I do die in the night.
Blue = Town Read (More towards the certain read) Green = Townish Read (Less certain but a read). Orange = Mafiaish Read (At this point in time, I find them to be more scummy than not). Red = Mafia Read (More towards certain [IN MY OPINION]) No colour = No alignment read, which means they're more in the middle with no clear signs to me of a faction read.
Obviously I withhold the right to change my opinion as we progress, but this list is just in case we go into the night and I do not come out the next morning.
But this is not just a list. I will explain my reads a little. At this point and time, I believe I can conclude HotShot and Anark being VT's 100% I don't think there are many left that question their alignment. MudPuppy, I personally feel may be a VT as well, he does not need to confirm my suspicion but that is my belief.
That leaves 9 people (excluding myself, this is my reads, I am tired of people saying "well what about you" these are my reads, not yours, so back off).
StorrZerg and pancakemix, I had my doubts when Lootifer was playing but I find pancakemix goes into detail a bit more and is active, trying to understand the situation fully and make informed choices from there. (I might be biased a bit because he stood up for me in one post against Jonty LOL but I think he's honestly trying to find scum as well). StorrZerg, while he's been tunneling Jonty, whom I now agree is most likely mafia today, he has shown initiative. I do not believe he's sheeped yet this game, he's been standing out in the open painting a big bullseye on himself like I have this game. When people create their own cases and continue to stay active and question everybody, they tend to be targeted due to being a threat to the mafia that stay quiet and sheep everything. I feel like he's town because mafia do not take that risk to stick out like a thorn in everyone's ass.
So that leads down to 7 for today.
I do agree with Whatsausage, IB is hard to read, he makes townish posts and scummy posts at the same time. His alignment is usually always a mystery until an investigative role checks him out. I mean speaking from past experience with IB, I don't think I've ever been able to pinpoint his role off of WIFOM and guess work once when playing with him. (So if we want reads from him, SOMEONE gotta investigate him one of these nights, he's a dangerous mafia player when he's against you). virus I have been leaning towards scummy earlier, but truth be told I am not sure of his alignment neither. He tends to give me the noobish vibes, but he's just active enough that I am not leaning on the scummarining. Meanwhile Whatsausage I am leaning on scummarining half the time. I think I might paint him as orange sooner or later.
But the no reads people can be left alone today, no point in pressuring every single person by the end of day 2. It's just not worth it. So we're down to 4 people.
spiesr, Jmac and kgb I painted as orange. spiesr even showed that he knows I called him out on it. The one thing I really want from him is to give his reads FULLY on what's going on so far. His one-two sentence posts really does not seem like him at all. Jmac I mentioned earlier I got scum vibes off of him, mostly from his reactions and lack there of. kgb does scummarine pretty hard. I'd love to be able to push on all of them at once but it's just not a viable option. They will be looked at tomorrow for sure by me.
Then we're down to the 1 for today. Jonty. It's not so much his posts that give me the feeling he's scum, as I mentioned before, rishaed's posts D1 make me lean toward Jonty being not town aligned. I feel pretty confident with my vote. It is all due to how rishaed posted. But one slip up is the only thing you need in catching mafia early on before they can establish a hold.
Highest Rank: Major:2157
"All wars are civil wars, because all men are brothers"
I have made my position fairly clear on Jonty and Anarch is Town in my book..
Today I believe the best lynch would be Whatsausge as well though Virus is on my radar as well. His list post raised eyebrows and he has not answered about his comment on the games he has played with Stor. No one seems interested in Virus at the moment and we need a consensus.
Iron Butterfly wrote:I have made my position fairly clear on Jonty and Anarch is Town in my book..
Today I believe the best lynch would be Whatsausge as well though Virus is on my radar as well. His list post raised eyebrows and he has not answered about his comment on the games he has played with Stor. No one seems interested in Virus at the moment and we need a consensus.
vote whatsausage
We can't really talk about that since it is an ongoing game.
Iron Butterfly wrote:I have made my position fairly clear on Jonty and Anarch is Town in my book..
Today I believe the best lynch would be Whatsausge as well though Virus is on my radar as well. His list post raised eyebrows and he has not answered about his comment on the games he has played with Stor. No one seems interested in Virus at the moment and we need a consensus.
vote whatsausage
We can't really talk about that since it is an ongoing game.
We can not talk about the game. We can however make note that it was ONE game. Ones meta and style of game play can not be determined by ONE game. I am not commenting so much on the "your game is off" comment so much as the fact that he made the statement in the first place.
A meta can only be formed over many games. One needs to be observed in both how one plays as Town and as Mafia/anti town. He made a broad generalization on your play style like it somehow meant something. Combine that with his post as a whole raises a red flag for me.
Really Jak? You basically do the same thing virus did 2 pages ago with 1 liners to summarize your "reads". If you're so worried you may not make it through the night, why not just tell us everything you know now and really prove your towniness? It's a better option than taking your secrets to the grave and there can be no disagreement in that argument.
I'll agree that I read Nark and Hotshot as town and we're also in agreement on Jonty.
Now let's move on to your read on me. Scummarining hard you say? I was on vacation for part of D1 and have pretty much traded posts with you since D2 kicked off until I laid my vote earlier this week. 100% crap by Storr's definition of one liner reads since I'm barely worth 5 words
I'm also going to disagree with your read on spiesr - look at his track record, D1 - he was on Jonty. Start of D2, he reaffirmed his previous position, when I theorized a doc saved Jonty and asked him who he would have saved if he was town doc last night. I don't think scum would be showing spiesr's consistent track record of voting.
You must know something about jmac so I'm not gonna beat you up on him but frankly, he's avoided more pressure today bc you failed to back up your suspicions with anymore than posts from D1. Jmac takes the same tactic used by Jonty in questioning how you could possibly be so rich in knowledge. Scum should be trying to distance themselves from each other at this point and I'd be surprised if at least one of them DIDN'T flip scum.
IB is an interesting individual as an experienced player. He chooses his words carefully and that is what makes him so hard to read.
He gives his opinion on Jonty without defending/arguing on Jonty's behalf. Yes, claiming town Vig is stupid for mafia to make D1 but there lies the beauty in the claim. So stupid mafia surely wouldn't do that, would they???? A great misdirection indeed if executed properly.
Second, IB owns what happened to RD. Backtracking from a mislynch would be poor strategy coupled with IB's "(town) read" on Jonty.
I believe the first spoiler was posted chronologically after this one but this post casually makes the assumption that Jonty is town. If you put a gun to my head, I'd say IB is scum too, or at the very least, anti-town but I've been wrong before . Side note - IB I just noticed you live in NYC - me too!
I can't decide if mafia games would be easier or harder if we knew with 100% certainty how many scum live amongst us but I suppose it would take some of the fun out these games if town had that information from the jump.
Jonty, IB, and (by default, Jmac, since I'm assuming Jak knows something about him I don't besides the D1 post argument) are my top scum targets right now. Chances are I'm not right about all of them but it would be AWESOME if I was!
I'll say this about IB: going for the RD lynch is fairly consistent with his playstyle. Much like Nark, he doesn't like when people do what RD was doing, so I don't see a fault at least in principle of that move on his part.
That being said, let's take a look at yesterday's final VC (abridged for ease of use):
Rishaed voted for Nark. Knowing what we know now, this makes sense: seems like an easy target, but given that we've all seen that movie before it wasn't a play that was going to work.
Five people were voting for jonty at the end of the day. He would have been lynched if I hadn't changed my vote (which wasn't even my vote but you know what I mean). If nothing else, it speaks to the negative feeling that surrounds jonty now, at least in part. Rishaed's flip just seems to amplify it.
Virus voted for MP. I haven't the mental capacity to look back through at this given moment (this given moment being 3am after a drink) but I'm leaving this as a note for myself/anyone who deems it worth examining.
Finally, the lynch. Same logic as Rish on Nark. I guarantee there's at least one scum on that wagon, maybe more. Interestingly, outside of jak and myself, all of those people have been pointed to as suspects for today.
KGB voted no lynch. That got popular for a hot minute yesterday, but then kgb peaced out for a few day and made us all jealous of his vacation. So KGB, I have a question for you: if you had been around at the end of D1, who would you have voted for?
HotShot did not vote. Question for HotShot: Why no vote? 13 of us found something to get behind but you didn't, and that's odd for a D1 as active as ours was.
Mind you, all of them were under suspect for different reasons and a few do question me, but no one seems to put their vote behind it fully. Also they were under pressure by DIFFERENT people. So that does not tell a whole lot either.
Like I said kgb, it's a list just in case. I don't have reason to believe that I wont make it through the night. But if I don't my current reads are on the table to look back upon. It's nothing fancy, was not meant to be. It's just there to see how I viewed people at this point and time.
If I do take info to the grave, then it'll be obvious I rattled a few people to make them want to kill me in the first place. That will give you even MORE info probably so than I can at this moment.
pcm, on the vote count you quoted. RD was town, Anark everyone seems to agree (everyone as in majority) is town. So that leaves spiesr, MP and Storr on that wagon. I feel MP and Storr are townish so if Jonty DOES flip town, my eyes would be on spiesr personally. But I don't think he will. Who knows, if jonty flips mafia like I think he will at the current moment, spiesr might have a free pass as not mafia.
Highest Rank: Major:2157
"All wars are civil wars, because all men are brothers"
. Side note - IB I just noticed you live in NYC - me too!
