The Village of Secrets [GAME OVER] Werewolves Win!

[jak111]

First off... that picture is killing me XD I am literally laughing my ass off!!!

I had it, might as well use it, but no. N1 I had very little leads, I don't know MP well and might as well just of checked (so N1 I just picked him to use it on after picking who I was going to kill for the night). N2 however, pcm, I did just play the what if game, but I mean it. I know you, you know me, I see you as a pain in the ass if you're against me (compliment, don't worry XD), so might as well check you out. You're like IB in a way, hard to read and a dangerous player to play against, so double checking to see if you're a vamp is not a bad choice. It will lead down to you just being scum or PR (since I killed 2 mafia and if there's a 3rd right now spiesr is being suspected as it, I think you're with us atm).

I know full well killing two scum doesn't clear me, for claiming I will be always on that boarder of being distrusted and lynched. Till either the town lynches me or bloody trusts me. But then, like Storr keeps pointing to, do you think I'm scum? Or are we playing the "you might be scum" game? Either you trust me or you don't, I killed two baddies two nights in a row, and then came out with a claim when one wasn't needed to help town know who the other enemy is.

But think about it pcm? Would I really go through all this trouble for a fake claim in a so far simple role game (flips) when there are soo many roles out there I could claim that would be much easier to fake as?

FP'd by Sausage. Good reasons actually for both blocks and in the end it's benefiting us by giving us a scum. (Perhaps a vampire that will hopefully somewhat prove my claim!)

[pancakemix]

thoughts on kgb, PCM?

His vote on Jmac is the only thing of note in his body of posts. It's strange, but based on his prior activity not grounds for a vote. Spiesr and Jmac (when we hear from him) are likely better leads.

[MudPuppy]

the only concern i have for you mudpuppy on day 2 is why you didn't push harder for jmac. Why didn't you continue to pressure, explain your read etc. Instead we spent a lot of time, me trying to convince you of why i thought jonty was scum and why it makes sense for him to be scum. All you really did was say "jmac still looks better idk" You did push on jonty day 1, and then day 2. I just don't understand why you became so against pushing jonty. You kept saying the actions made jonty look more town, yet it never made sense the way talked about it. While i think i can come to some understanding on why you think the night actions maybe look favorable on jonty, you never really addressed his play being scummy or townie. In fact the biggest thing i can remember as to why you called someone scum was an action that IB made on day 1.

As for why you have such a hard on for jmac is still a mystery to me. You seem to believe a big reason he is scum is because Jak was pushing on him hard (yet jak switched his vote) But you wouldn't. What has jmac said that is scummy? what has he done (besides day 1 being the second person on RD) what about day 2 makes more sense today? What about day 3? I really hate this idea of "o lets just force a claim with out actually telling the group why they are scummy"

Well, I had it in my head that jmac said more scummy things but when I go back to quote them, I don't see too much scummy. There was some questioning about the "Villager" name thing and jak's blocking theory which I think seemed scummier to me at the time than they do now. In fact, his defense of Jonty can now be seen as points for his townness. I think the bulk of my argument against jmac is that he said RD was scummy when I still have a really hard time believing a townie would've read her that way... I'd believe a policy vote... but not a scum vote... and jmac specifically said "scummy."

I still think Jonty sounded scummy... even D2, I thought he did a really bad job with that role and defending himself. It was his scummy behavior that kept me considering voting him on D2 but I still couldn't reconcile a likely scenario for N1 where Jonty was scum... and that was obviously a sticking point for me... especially since the stakes of losing a potential town killer role were so high (in my eyes... apparently not in Jonty's).

I did put a lot of weight on jak's 90% scum read on jmac. Perhaps too much... but I was still following the RD lynch and jmac seemed like the best alternative to my initial choice of IB, for which my scum read got little support. Despite all of jak's new revelations, I see little that explains his 90% scum read on jmac and I'm still confused by his switch to Jonty. So, in retrospect, I put too much faith in that statement. Still, I think there is enough suspicion on jmac at this point to justify getting a claim.

[superkeener]

Official Vote Count 3.2

Anarkistsdream (0):
jak111 (0):
L-2 Jmac1026 (4): jak111, kgb007, MudPuppy, virus90
kgb007 (1): StorrZerg
pancakemix (1): Anarkistsdream
MudPuppy (0):
spiesr (1): Whatsausage
virus90 (0):
Whatsausage (0):
StorrZerg (1): Jmac1026

No Lynch (0):

Not Voting (2): spiesr, pancakemix

With 10 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.

Deadline for DAY 3 is: Tuesday, April 29, 2014, 10:00am CC Time.

[pancakemix]

Official Vote Count 3.2

L-2 Jmac1026 (4): jak111, kgb007, MudPuppy, virus90

We're waiting.

@jak: I'm trying to see things from all sides. Take it less as doubt and more as cross-examination.

I'm still looking for your "reason to believe" about the two blocks though. You've got your one (in theory) but if you've got reason to believe in #2 still, I'd like to know why.

[jak111]

In theory?
1.) Mafia was unsuccessful (confirmed).
2.) 2nd one was I believed Vampires were unsuccessful as well.

I explained that. Not sure if you missed it, but I did explain it. The Vampires are why I believed there were two kill blocks since my kill was the only successful one of the night. That was back on Day 2, I am no longer sure whether there were two kill blocks since they (or the mafia) seemed unsuccessful again last night if they are just normal killing anti-town faction.

Also interesting how long Jmac has been away, I hope he realizes now that he's at L2, the votes wont be coming off and if this goes on through the entire day today, more votes may be placed on.

[StorrZerg]

Stands to reason if we believe you are immune to night kills that you took a bullet n1

[jak111]

Perhaps even so N2 if they believed a doc was on me N1 and wouldn't be so N2.

Then with all of what I was hinting at yesterday, it would be a surprise if one of them wouldn't try to kill me yesterday.

But that's all theory, nothing concrete to support that.

[Jmac1026]

Town Villager. My only power is my vote, I am town, blah blah blah.

[Jmac1026]

Also, unvote. Apparently storr was joking, but it didn't translate very well.

[StorrZerg]

So lets say you have a vig shot jmac and you could shoot right now
who would you kill jmac? why?

[jak111]

I really don't like the way he's been playing. Bandwagoning, poor (no) reasonings for the things he has said or done, and his participation has done nothing to further the conversation or cases in constructive ways.

That being said, I'd support a Anark lynch if the case was made for one. Claiming with only two votes? Come on man! You're acting like amateur hour at the Apollo.

Town Villager. My only power is my vote, I am town, blah blah blah.

Yeah, I don't buy it... You were willing to kill Anark, someone you should of known was a VT as well, HotShot (a confirmed VT) and even RD pegged him as truth telling and not willing to lynch him because they knew.

You however, did not.

My vote stays. I do not buy this fake claim. I do support getting spiesr with Sausage's result, but right now Jmac is not slipping through my radar another day with a fake claim at that.

[spiesr]

Yes, I have killed twice and used a secondary action beside each kill action, must I restate that fact? Did you skim or should I just restate everything I've said so far to help you from going back and reading?

Just wanted you to make things clear, I don't think you had previously explicitly mentioned both actions in the same post.

Obscure? What have I been obscure about?

You obscured the details of how possible secondary actions. More generally it is just a situation where admit that you have not revealed 100% of everything there is no know about your role claim. Whenever that happens it leaves you room to come up with whatever details become necessary in the event that you are fake claiming.

so far I only know what garlic does. The items are explained when/if I get them during the night.

May I ask why you stated earlier that you are trying to get the Holy Water action? If you don't know what any of them do why would you specifically want that one?

Why the hell would I fake claim when it's not needed and there's been no real big push on me?

While potentially risky it is sometimes valuable for scum to try and get their fake-claims out earlier rather than waiting until the process of elimination gets to them at the end. The timing of a claim can effect if people believe it. You might have more luck getting someone to believe a fake-claim if you offer it freely rather than if it is forced out of you. The level of scrutiny it receives might also be lower if people aren't already looking at lynching you.

Your third point I do so love. Imbalanced and illogical? I can easily be lynched by a lynch happy town, I could of easily been killed by town vig or mafia. Being immune to a single faction is NOT that OP. Especially where as I am the only one on my faction.

But, neither town nor mafia are your enemies. Accordingly an early claim can go a long way towards reducing the risk of death by either of those causes.

Do you not believe me because of your power?

No

The other question I pose to you, do you really think scum would hit Jonty N1 with IB on their team?

No, what does this have to do with your claim though?

Do you seem IB as that stupid to kill the obvious doc save N1 with no other valuable claims to protect?

I disagree with your assessment of Jonty being an obvious target.

The fact you want me dead so bad seems very odd.

Oh yeah, I want you dead so hard I haven't even voted for you. I am sceptical of you claim and want to poke it a bunch and see if it holds up at all.

[You are now pushing a guy who claims to have killed TWO scum and immune to another scum faction.

To me these details of you claim all sound like things that a member of the second anti-town faction would need in a fake-claim:

• You made night kills in a game where there is already a town Vig and multiple non-town factions.
• You would come up non-town under investigation.
• Despite claiming to be the biggest threat to a non-town faction they won't be killing you.

How about defend yourself before trying to go after a guy who is more open to people than you are.

Any advice on how to defend myself when the primary accusation is that I was blocked on Night 1? I don't have to ability to prove whether or not I was indeed blocked. I also don't have any information about how the actions played out Night 1.

I'm pretty sure you aren't a VT

Care to share why you happen to think that?

Sorry for double posting, but just going to say what I'd do if I was anti-town.

N1 I would of killed spiesr or pcm because I know them, they know me, I'd see them as a threat.
N2 I'd of killed the other.

Everyone else is mostly new to me (Besides IB and Jonty, but they're all dead so they don't count)

Going very far down this tpye of thing quickly turns into WIFO, so bringing it up doesn't really help your case in my opinion, but here is what I have to say nonetheless. Rishaed and Iron Butterfly are both experienced players that I am pretty sure you have played with before. They are both potential priority targets for any scum group which doesn't contain only total newbies.

[spiesr]

If I was against town, I do not see why I'd be aiming for anti-town. Would I not just wait for the scum faction to kill a few townies before killing them off?

Ask yourself that spiesr, why the heck would I shoot two scummy people in my eyes during the night if I was anti-town and leave a lot of town PR's alive against me?

Unless your group is entirely bullet-proof the members of the other scum faction are one of your biggest threats. If you think someone might be one of them killing him would be an entirely reasonable use of your night kill. Particularly since there wasn't much for other visible targets.

Because I'm a person that'd take out experienced town players if I was against them.

You did kill two of the four or five most experienced played in this game.

Would I really go through all this trouble for a fake claim in a so far simple role game (flips) when there are soo many roles out there I could claim that would be much easier to fake as?

If you wanted a claim which couldn't be disproved in the usual ways (watcher seeing you kill those guys, cop investigating you, scum not killing you) you would have to.

[jak111]

I'll answer them as numbers to each of them.

1.) Again, must I restate everything into one post?

2.) I have been pretty straight forward. Sure I have revealed bit by bit some of the info of my role but I imagine you want me to go to my inbox, quote the bloody pm and put it all one one post with a mod-kill to top it off? No thanks.

3.) It's Holy Water, it has to be good. Garlic is not as useful as you guys seem to think it is. It wears off. Out of all the items given to me, Holy Water just seems like the best one to get to me. Don't you agree?

4.) Yeah, I am not a big risk taker, I like to live long and not claim unless I am forced to or claiming saves the town.

5.) So it's because of the complicity of my role and because I am alone that you do not believe me.

6.) The entire post was not about just my claim. You want it to be just about my claim, but I brought up questions for you as well.

7.) Oh? If you were doc, who would you save N1 with no real other lead? Me? rishaed? IB? Storr? virus? Sausage? Who?

8.) The thing is, you can't really do much with a single vote. What you're attempting to do is cast doubt in my claim to take the pressure currently building on you.

9.) 8 answers this.

10.) Claim. You're going to be questioned about it sooner or later and you're definitely not a VT. Even Sausage agrees (according to that quote, I do not remember him saying it like that). We know you're not a VT by how you reacted to Anark, it's the way I know Jmac is not a VT as well. That 'lame' attempt at a case on Anark which got him to claim proved a lot more useful than even I would of thought originally.

12.) pcm already pointed that out, it is WIFOM, but it's just putting out what I'd do. I do believe I played with rishaed once or twice, I would not consider him a threat as much as you or pcm would be. IB is dangerous more in the latter days than he is during the first 2-4. He's better when it comes down to final 6ish.

Also, it is not as simple as claiming to survive, as you are trying to push for doubt against me already spiesr. You're contradicting your own statement. I can easily die, one wrong vig shot, one wrong mafia shot, one town lynch, any of them could easily kill me. Who knows, perhaps there's a way vampires can even evade my immunity to them and kill me. It wouldn't surprise me one bit.
____________________________________________________________________________
But yeah, my current vote stays put. I am thinking a max of 4ish VT's in this game.

Let me explain:

Players: 15.
Mafia = 2-3 (2 dead)
Vampires = 1-2 (growing?)
Vampire Hunter (3rd Party) = 1
Town = 10 (? Maybe?)

Of this 10ish town, I believe 4 are VT's 2 are dead and Anark we are pretty certain is one, leaving space for one more.

Now there are 6 PR's
Vig (DEAD)
Roleblocker (Sausage)
Doc (I think I know who this is actually)
Tracker/Watcher (? Alive?)
Cop (Alive)
Then one more I am not sure of. JOAT? Busdriver?

Anyone else have an opinion on how many there are and what they may be?

FP'd by spiesr. You really give me too much credit at my ability to fake claim, I'm not THAT good. I've fake claimed before. I am not this elaborate in my fake claiming abilities. Plus, again, I'd just of claimed bomb. That would of been the easiest and scariest claim to go against or some form of the granny role where I do not visit anyone but anyone who visits me dies XD. Yeah, you give me too much credit for elaborate fake claiming. I'm lazy, I don't like thinking up fake claims, I'd use the most basic role to get out of it if I were scum.

[MudPuppy]

We've got two claims today. I'm skeptical of jmac's based on the "Villager" thing and I don't know what to make of Sausage's claim.

Night 1 I blocked spiesr...

I am not able to confirm nor deny being roleblocked at that time.

...and night 2 I blocked storr.

Storr, can you confirm or deny being roleblocked N2?

[StorrZerg]

My action still happened so...

[spiesr]

FP'd by spiesr. You really give me too much credit at my ability to fake claim, I'm not THAT good. I've fake claimed before. I am not this elaborate in my fake claiming abilities. Plus, again, I'd just of claimed bomb. That would of been the easiest and scariest claim to go against or some form of the granny role where I do not visit anyone but anyone who visits me dies XD. Yeah, you give me too much credit for elaborate fake claiming. I'm lazy, I don't like thinking up fake claims, I'd use the most basic role to get out of it if I were scum.

I am kind of bothered by the way throwing in stuff to the effect of "I wouldn't do X." To me it feels like a lazy/sleazy(?) way to try and dismiss points. Sure you can say what you would or wouldn't do but that doesn't make it true, and proving it true or false it nearly impossible.

[Anarkistsdream]

vote jmac....

That was a WEEEEEAK claim.

[StorrZerg]

well was hoping to provoke a response from anyone.
i suppose i cannot confirm i was blocked, but i see no reason why there would be a lie in regards the block claim.

Was going to wait longer, but i see another vote has been placed onto jmac so no point in continuing that.

[StorrZerg]

I still think

spiesr is worth looking at some more...


Unvote Vote spiesr

Just feels that we are going through the motions this day, with little debate on lynches.

As far as what i'm thinking... Whatsausage has claimed blocker. We know only 1 kill happened n1. This could explain that possibility. I have no reason to doubt the claim.

[virus90]

My action still happened so...

your action still happened although you got blocked by whatsausage?

well that makes me doubt what whatsausage word is worth.

[MudPuppy]

My action still happened so...

your action still happened although you got blocked by whatsausage?

well that makes me doubt what whatsausage word is worth.

He retracted that statement shortly after:

well was hoping to provoke a response from anyone.
i suppose i cannot confirm i was blocked, but i see no reason why there would be a lie in regards the block claim.

Was going to wait longer, but i see another vote has been placed onto jmac so no point in continuing that.

[Roger Dodger]

From the heavens. i say this has become a good read.