[Official] NBC Mafia Town Win MVP=trinicardinal

[jonty125]

actually i tried to read between the lines as trini did and I kind of read a softclaim there, don't know if it's true or not, but it's possible.

Strike is softclaiming something but what - it doesn't matter. I don't understand what's going on with trini. One post he wants strike to claim after his softclaiming strike brings it up again and this time he unvotes .

vote trini

[strike wolf]

well trini seemed to get it not sure about anyone else. My refusal to hammer was more than just being stubborn or not wanting to. I softclaimed my character's name. I am Zero. As for why claim now. I had no illusion about not claiming today so I went ahead and name claimed. As far as my role, I believe my character is strong enough that I do not have to fully claim so I will let the mafia wifom it themselves.

[betiko]

well trini seemed to get it not sure about anyone else. My refusal to hammer was more than just being stubborn or not wanting to. I softclaimed my character's name. I am Zero. As for why claim now. I had no illusion about not claiming today so I went ahead and name claimed. As far as my role, I believe my character is strong enough that I do not have to fully claim so I will let the mafia wifom it themselves.

ok, i didn't get any of your softclaim then, i understood your post as if you were softclaiming vig! (the way you kind of meant there was zero chance you would hammer unless the vig blablabla made me think that you knew what the vig would do or not do because you WERE the vig).
guess the busdriver has a few more ideas for tonight (I doubt anyone will counterclaim zero, or it's a very strange play from strike).

[Leitz]

well trini seemed to get it not sure about anyone else. My refusal to hammer was more than just being stubborn or not wanting to. I softclaimed my character's name. I am Zero. As for why claim now. I had no illusion about not claiming today so I went ahead and name claimed. As far as my role, I believe my character is strong enough that I do not have to fully claim so I will let the mafia wifom it themselves.

ok, i didn't get any of your softclaim then, i understood your post as if you were softclaiming vig! (the way you kind of meant there was zero chance you would hammer unless the vig blablabla made me think that you knew what the vig would do or not do because you WERE the vig).
guess the busdriver has a few more ideas for tonight (I doubt anyone will counterclaim zero, or it's a very strange play from strike).

I was thinking alike!

[safariguy5]

Announcement

pancakemix has replaced shieldgenerator7.

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

strike wolf (1)- chapcrap
trini(1)- jonty

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

[chapcrap]

Well... I haven't seen the movie, but from what others say, Zero wouldn't be scummy. So, I guess with the flavor, I'll unvote.

[Epitaph1]

I've seen the movie and have a couple of ideas of what Zero's abilities might be. However, there is really no point in even suggesting the possibilities if we believe strike to be town.

[Leitz]

Announcement

pancakemix has replaced shieldgenerator7.

Ok, hope to hear from him soon!

I've seen the movie and have a couple of ideas of what Zero's abilities might be. However, there is really no point in even suggesting the possibilities if we believe strike to be town.

Agreed. Time to look for a new case for the moment. Maybe wait to see what pancakemix has to say?

[betiko]

Well... I haven't seen the movie, but from what others say, Zero wouldn't be scummy. So, I guess with the flavor, I'll unvote.

He is the main character's faithful dog and best friend. so yeah, for me no way zero is scummy or even neutral
Bah i've already suggested it earlier trying to guess characters/role, but a dog is flavoured watcher, busdriver, vig, could also be something else. we know enough.
but he is definitely not VT, and we all know from day 2 that he was either scummy or power role.
Unless someone counterclaims we can definitely close the strike case without even giving the role.
I think that the mayor and dr frienkelstein were characters I wouldn't ve taken necesairly 100% good for town, we have discussed it (and I was wrong for both), but the 3 "good guys" of the story are definitely jack sally and zero.

and welcome to pancakemix! seems like he is a very experienced mafia player.

[chapcrap]

Well, my two other options for today, after strike, were MeDeFe and Leitz. MeDeFe has been suspiciously quiet today while Leitz is just doing more of the same scummy stuff. For instance, a post with nothing of value:

Announcement

pancakemix has replaced shieldgenerator7.

Ok, hope to hear from him soon!

I've seen the movie and have a couple of ideas of what Zero's abilities might be. However, there is really no point in even suggesting the possibilities if we believe strike to be town.

Agreed. Time to look for a new case for the moment. Maybe wait to see what pancakemix has to say?

[pancakemix]

Confirm.

I'm leaving for work right now but I'll read up when I get home.

[Leitz]

Well, my two other options for today, after strike, were MeDeFe and Leitz. MeDeFe has been suspiciously quiet today while Leitz is just doing more of the same scummy stuff. For instance, a post with nothing of value:

Announcement

pancakemix has replaced shieldgenerator7.

Ok, hope to hear from him soon!

I've seen the movie and have a couple of ideas of what Zero's abilities might be. However, there is really no point in even suggesting the possibilities if we believe strike to be town.

Agreed. Time to look for a new case for the moment. Maybe wait to see what pancakemix has to say?

As I said, I'm waiting for pancakemix to enter the game (as in read through everything) and then I will consider what he said and with what happened on day 2 to say who I believe has some suspicion in my eyes. Besides strike claiming, nobody really has said anything of value if you ask me..

[MeDeFe]

Well, my two other options for today, after strike, were MeDeFe and Leitz. MeDeFe has been suspiciously quiet today while Leitz is just doing more of the same scummy stuff. For instance, a post with nothing of value:

*snip*

Let's pressure Leitz then. Scummy stuff > nothing.

[Leitz]

I can tell the pressure is increasing on me because of my way of playing. Although I understand why people believe me to be scummy, it's simply my style of play. A lot of 'useful' input does not necessarily mean town. Mafia can hide behind that too! But that aside, I have one person in particular who I have my eyes on as being scum. First one is dazza: during D2 he claimed willingly to hammer Rodion very shortly after chap already claimed he was willing to hammer:

This is going to go on forever. Lets just get him to L-1 and someone hammer. I will because I am pretty convinced he is scum.

Not even an hour later he posts this:

I already said mate. I am convinced he is scum. I don't care who hammers. Get him to L-1 and I will do it or Chap.

You want us to FOS those we want to hammer then when I do you worry about another claim. The only way not to get another claim is just to do it. So why f*ck around for weeks? Lets just get it done.

He was willing to hammer, but now it's either him OR chap. Then he posts some other stuff about getting on with it and to just lynch (several people, including myself, did this as D2 did got dragged along for a long time).

So because he is convincing he must be telling the truth?

We all know he is a good player. If he fakeclaims it will be convincing and he will fight to survive as long as he can.

If he is scum the longer this goes on the more info his scum-mates will get.

Reading this gives me a feeling of "I know I'm scum, so I know who else is scum and it's not Rodion, so let's get another townie out of the way"

Lets just do it then. Someone vote now and I will hammer.

This post my be the only one to convince me he is not scum.

Swifte can you remind me why Dazza over chap? I'd look it up myself but I don't have time right now.

Well, I went through yesterday and re-read all of dazza's posts, which I would encourage others to do as well - while he's been active, for the most part his posts have been pretty short and just about every one is him hoping on whatever bandwagon we're on at the time, which is necessary to an extent on the first day but it's been a continued pattern with him, which just makes me wonder about his motivations. Then to volunteer to hammer an hour after chap really bugs me.

If I agree to a case I will jump on the bandwagon. So because I don't make massive posts I must be scum?

First of all, you volunteered to hammer, I was just putting forth my opinions on why you over chap. I'm not claiming to be certain either you or chap are scum, don't blow it out of proportion. I'm picking between the two of your because I agree with the thought that fewer new roles revealed today is a good thing.

Second, it's not the length in it of itself, but the fact that it shows that you've bandwagoned almost every case, including the 'Rodion-spoke-French' thing, which leads me to, as I said, just question your motivations. It comes across as following the group when it happens repeatedly, and sometimes it's a sign of scum willing to jump on any case, sometimes it's an innocent player, it's not proof in itself of anything, but whenever there's a pattern it's worth noting.

OK.

Here it seems like Swifte touched a soft spot.

Vote Count

Rodion (6)- strike, chap, jonty, Mob, betiko, epitaph
strike(1)- Rodion

We're letting this drag! Rodion is two votes away, so we either let dazza or chap hammer, correct? I trust neither of them really..

So what do you suggest?

Here I mentioned we had two volunteers willing to hammer. It did feel like chap got the preference from everyone to hammer now I reread everything all over again. As a volunteer to hammer, I believe dazza here should've said: "Indeed, put him on L-1 and I will". But he didn't, so it seems he really isn't that keen on hammering after all..

If Chap is going to hammer we need him to unvote. Then 2 more people vote then he hammers. Or someone vote and I will hammer. Not much time lets make a decision.

Now he's completely avoiding himself and giving chap his confidence.

If Chap is going to hammer we need him to unvote. Then 2 more people vote then he hammers. Or someone vote and I will hammer. Not much time lets make a decision.

I say chap unvote, I can vote and then dazza to bring him to L-1. Then chap can hammer

Lets do it then.

Might this be a little insight in mafia? Trini and dazza working together to kill two townies (if Rodions claim would've been correct)? As scum know who is scum, this could've been their best situation possible: having a town lynch a town.

are you guys waiting the last seconds like in speed games?? last thing we need is everyone to stay silent. fishy and unwanted things could happen, mostly because everyone wouldn't get their word. I m surprised we don't see strike or medefe since a few days, i've seen strike posting all around mafia threads. open your mouth people!!

What exactly do you want everyone to talk about? I think everyone is fed up with going over and over the same points. I say we should just do what we said so we can move on.

BCS would be chap to hammer, as that what we decided

WCS chap not hammering, dazza did volunteer as well so its not like a power role is at risk and we can give chap a good grilling tomorrow.

WWCS dazza unvotes and leitz gets to hammer, and so on.

I won't unvote. Why would I?

Guys I am off to bed now. I may be on before the deadline or I may not. I will not unvote. So either Chap will hammer or it will be me.

Here he does stand up for what he said, but there was still 13 hours until deadline so 'plenty' of time for chap to make the final move. Since D3 has started he only made 2 appearances:

Interesting point chap, I'll wait for strikes response before throwing out any votes.

Btw, correct me if I'm wrong, but dazza still hasn't posted in D3?

Yep I have nt posted today. Still not sure what to add. I think it was bad play by Rodion. The mafia got mega lucky with the kill. I need to look through again and see what I think. We need to hear from the cop too.

Half an hour after I mention his name, he returns to the surface.

SG7 might just need to be replaced. He's disappeared from the forum a bit.

He hasn't logged in his CC since Christmas Eve, maybe Christmas related absence

Christmas related or not I think he and Jim need replacing. If Jim is replaced does is replacement get the results he got previously?

[dazza2008]

Leitz, all of what you say here is crazy really. I was willing to hammer all the way through.

You make it look like I was backing down and not wanting to hammer, but in fact I was responding to what the majority wanted. If you just quote what I say it can look like I wanted to back out but read the thread again and you will see it is not the case.

I think you are scum and knew the heat was turning your way with Strike's claim so you took this weak case and tried to make it look like something it is not.

[Leitz]

Dazza, you might say that now, but I quoted most of your posts and as it shows I got the impression you stood up and then held back. That's the way I see it. If it turns out to be wrong, I'll accept my mistake. There is nothing wrong with outing suspicions, right?

I do believe though it is easy for the mafia to jump on my case now that some people have FOSed me. So I'll keep an eye on this!

[jonty125]

Dazza, you might say that now, but I quoted most of your posts and as it shows I got the impression you stood up and then held back. That's the way I see it. If it turns out to be wrong, I'll accept my mistake. There is nothing wrong with outing suspicions, right?

I do believe though it is easy for the mafia to jump on my case now that some people have FOSed me. So I'll keep an eye on this!

Did you just super skim dazza's last post. FOS Leitz for a weak case on dazza then failing to respond to the defense (still think trini is slightly more suspicious but I wouldn't mind lynching either of 'em).

[betiko]

Dazza, you might say that now, but I quoted most of your posts and as it shows I got the impression you stood up and then held back. That's the way I see it. If it turns out to be wrong, I'll accept my mistake. There is nothing wrong with outing suspicions, right?

I do believe though it is easy for the mafia to jump on my case now that some people have FOSed me. So I'll keep an eye on this!

I don't really like that last phrase; basically if anyone here has any suspicion on you it means they are suspicious?

I don't know about Dazza.. the deadline would ve really been night time for europeans and we had no choice but to go to bed and wait for the next morning to see what the americans did. I do believe that he went to bed and had no intention or possibility to unvote if chap didn't hammer. he put himself in a tough spot there for a scum.
On the other hand, chap could not have not hammered. Or he could, if he had a power role willing to claim today; and was waiting for a scum to put rodion at l-1 and trap him. but that is a too big stunt and chap would've taken too many risks, not even being sure a mafia would've put rodion at l-1.
Now that I think about it; was there really any scenario that could've lead dazza not to hammer??

[betiko]

ebwop: sorry, I meant "
Now that I think about it; was there really any scenario that could've lead chap not to hammer??"

In other words, did Dazza really take the risk of hammering? if you calculate the thing, there was kind of no viable reason why chap could've not hammered? if chap didn't hammer rodion, he kind of would've doomed himself for no good reason don't you guys think?

On the other hand I did have a moment when I thought that chap might not be doing it, as he waited for the very last moment..

[strike wolf]

Yeah really not buying the leitz case on Dazza.

Some general thoughts. I read back through and while I'm still suspicious of jonty, I don't have any solid case I can pin him to right now. I find Epitaph somewhat scummy as it seems he switched around his position on Rodion but not sure it worth pursuing. Trini has dropped some possible scum tells but also appears active and has done some of tthe more helpful analyses of player behavior. Chap and betiko appear to be town and I also have that mob is town. I don't really feel there is a case to be made on MeDeFe as of right now, he's not the most active but on day 3 I would expect better reasoning for voting him. So Leitz seems to still be the best target in my eyes and in the interest of progressing the day:

vote leitz

[strike wolf]

As far as set up. It does not appear we have an SK and 4 mafia in a 16 player game with no SK seems a bit on the high side especially if Santa is a potential third party. My theory is the set up may be like one of the following:

12 town vs 3 mafia (w/santa as 3rd party)
13 town vs 3 mafia
11 town vs 4 mafia (w/Santa as 3rd party)
OR
12 town vs. 4 mafia with some interesting balancing factors.

The last one seems less likely but Safari has used unconventional set ups in the past to balance otherwise unbalanced numbers. My guess would be either the 12 vs. 3 w/third party or the 11 vs. 4 w/3rd party seems more balanced than the other two set ups. I will say though if we are dealing with 4 mafia than on top of the unknown roles we probably have a second but less important protective role so we may not be as screwed over in the power roles department as we think.

[Leitz]

@ jonty: what does super skim mean?
@ betiko: I'm just saying that because some of you are targeting me because of lack of anything better, it is possible that some mafia will play along and accuse me (=bandwagoning) hence staying 'under the radar'.
@ strike: after going through D2 I too had some supsicion on jonty & Epitaph, but not anything in particular. It's more gut feeling than anything else..

[betiko]

@ jonty: what does super skim mean?
@ betiko: I'm just saying that because some of you are targeting me because of lack of anything better, it is possible that some mafia will play along and accuse me (=bandwagoning) hence staying 'under the radar'.
@ strike: after going through D2 I too had some supsicion on jonty & Epitaph, but not anything in particular. It's more gut feeling than anything else..

the thing is that we don't have really anything tangible on anyone right now. we can only clear out completely strike and jimfinn; all the rest of us are potential suspects at different levels and we all have different opinions about each other. Targeting someone because we didn't have anything better is what we have been doing all game.
Not having any feedback from jimfinn after last night really sucks; not having any feedback from the watcher as well. we just have to start from scratch again from assumptions. now why not you leitz?
As I said before, leitz and jonty are the 2 guys I have the least opinion about. even if you are bringing much more to the game leitz on this day 3 than before. I don't know if this is just plain vanilla flavour or not..

Epitaph I don't know, he has been doing quite a lot of interesting comments for town during the first half of day 2 in my opinion, then he's been less active, we'll see.

Pancake will have the difficult task to read all this and to reincarnate a player that was very high on my suspect list.

chapcrap... after some rethoughts, I still don't fully get his move... he sure wins some credit by doing what he said he would, but he didn't really have the choice not to, after all he said before and after the rodion claim. what if rodion really turned out bomb??? 0-2 if guessed completely wrong killing including himself; 0-1 if rodion is town but isn't the bomb (nobody really bought that); 1-0 if guessed right? on a scum perspective, it's 1-1 if unlucky, 1-0 if lucky +town credit. Chap has had to answer a lot to that. It could still be a good move from a mafia perspective to win town credit. if you lose well, you still killed the bomb that could've been a real pain for mafia. better kill him ASAP instead of having it busdriven or whatever to perform night kills (all other mobs still being alive so 1 acceptable loss for the cause)... and if it's a fake bombclaim well you've just killed 2 birds with one stone.
Now, could chap be a power role? the answer should be no. a power role would ve reacted like strike. do we risk uncovering a power role by pressuring chap? I see no reason for this. The problem is that if we make chap claim; he will claim VT no matter what his alignment is! so I don't know what to do with all this; probably keep it for day 4.

[strike wolf]

I think you're overthinking the chap part. There's really no reason to think rodion would fake claim bomb as town as the move itself was a bad move so mafia would have no reason to suspect it was a fake.