Political Mafia -- Liberals Win

[NoSurvivors]

well, if there are two parties with equal amounts on both sides, voting will get weird. If we follow Endgame's scenario above, epi and him would have the same votes based on the two big parties and it'd come down to a third party vote.

but with the third parties probably not being aligned, it'd get weird.

I agree with this, which honesty leads me to think there is a town vs mafia type thing here. I mean, there must be. The big parties would have even numbers, the little ones would have smaller numbers. Depending on which country's system we are using (ie how many different 3rd parties there could be). I dont think this would be a very balanced game if it were like this because the third parties would very easily pick off members of the opposing parties.

Reads I dont have any at the moment, its unusual for IB not to be active I think but he wouldnt just not show up. He must be busy IRL, but of course I could be wrong. I just dont think hes nooby enough for that.

That being said we are probably not going to get anything out of day 1 until we lynch someone, see his or her alignment and then are able to discuss, as most people have said. I, along with others apparently, do not like Epi's play. vote epi.

I will probably try to be more active day 2, this is just boring as heck honestly as I cant see us getting anywhere until we lynch someone. Epi's the best option here because of his jump of the gun trying to role fish and then backing off in like his next post.

[dazza2008]

I saw the whole Epi thing as him trying to understand the importance of the role more than role fishing etc.

I agree with Epi that IB is too quiet.

I find guessing the setup now pretty pointless. We will know more as the game goes on. I agree with Epi again that going after the scummy players makes most sense now.

vote iron butterfly

[Army of GOD]

well, if there are two parties with equal amounts on both sides, voting will get weird. If we follow Endgame's scenario above, epi and him would have the same votes based on the two big parties and it'd come down to a third party vote.

but with the third parties probably not being aligned, it'd get weird.

I agree with this, which honesty leads me to think there is a town vs mafia type thing here. I mean, there must be. The big parties would have even numbers, the little ones would have smaller numbers. Depending on which country's system we are using (ie how many different 3rd parties there could be). I dont think this would be a very balanced game if it were like this because the third parties would very easily pick off members of the opposing parties.

Reads I dont have any at the moment, its unusual for IB not to be active I think but he wouldnt just not show up. He must be busy IRL, but of course I could be wrong. I just dont think hes nooby enough for that.

That being said we are probably not going to get anything out of day 1 until we lynch someone, see his or her alignment and then are able to discuss, as most people have said. I, along with others apparently, do not like Epi's play. vote epi.

I will probably try to be more active day 2, this is just boring as heck honestly as I cant see us getting anywhere until we lynch someone. Epi's the best option here because of his jump of the gun trying to role fish and then backing off in like his next post.

How would the third parties be able to pick anyone off? Even if they are of the same alignment and know they're aligned, there's still a big discrpency in terms of size.

[Endgame422]

Ok i think my scenario will play out regardless.
Epi and IB are fair targets for D1. Has to be someone and the fishiest and the least posting are as good as anyone.
Remember to claim BEFORE vote is called. Not sure you will have time after with 24hour deadline.
I will vote between epi and IB depending on respective claims.

[/]

You guys can question me all you want about my abstention because that's my voting record, but I have a question for the rest of you: why did you vote the way you did? If we're going to look at the Speaker votes the same way you look at normal mafia voting, the way Streaker has by saying I voted "no lynch", then why did you guys all vote the way you did? Streaker was ordained out of the blue and a lot of people just hopped on the wagon. Talk about weird.

Why did I vote for Streaker? No reason, I always like to kick things off with a joke vote... Speaking of which...

The chamber floor was rustling with noise Monday morning, as the new parliamentary session was about to begin. Streaker had just been elected as Speaker, and banged the gavel, calling for order in the chamber. When the members quieted down, he said he was very proud of himself for his campaign slogan rhyming, and thanked all of his loyal supporters. Then, with another bang of the gavel, the floor opened for debate. Today's topic of discussion: even though the new term had just started, its members were already looking ahead to the next elections. Which political faction would win in the upcoming midterm? Which would be destroyed in the desperate struggle to maintain political power? Much would be revealed over the coming days, as the members revealed their true intentions.

Day One begins. Our first recess will be in 10 days, at 14:00 CC Time on August 1. The Speaker may call for a vote to end the day at any time prior to that, at which point a 24 hour lynch period will immediately commence.

All previous votes for Speaker have been reset. You may vote for a new Speaker on a rolling basis at any time.

Vote Streaker For fulfilling his campaign promised spankings with a gavel.

But really, Unvote vote Epitaph
I don't really condemn him for abstaining on the speaker vote; from a meta perspective it's not exactly useful to kill conversations in most situations. But other than that, my gut tells me Epi is very nervous and desperate; on just one page (see quote at top) he's accuses streaker of using a bad logical comparison, calls out everyone who voted for him, threatened to pressure everyone one by one unless they explain why they voted, then flipped and voted on an inactive who hasn't even confirmed. To me it seems more like a series of random diversions than an attempt to root out anyone.

Also, Mets, Please prod IB

[JamesKer1]

Just check the Wheel of Time game, and IronButterfly has been quite active there while not posting in here at all.

Vote IronButterfly

This is silly. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt before, but this is just too weird to not call you on. Make a case against IB or Streak, not both. Or better yet, make a defense.

Vote Epi

By my count, this puts you at L-3.

By the way- IB characteristically leaves games, at least in my past experience with him. I don't see that as a scumtell yet.

[Ragian]

I would imagine Mets try to fashion it like a typical two party system (which most democratic nations are): a bunch of liberals, a bunch of conservatives and a few third parties.

I don't necessarily agree 100% with the parenthesis, but that's besides the point.

@epi - i stated my reasoning in my post. I didnt want it to drag on and figured the sooner we got the ball rolling the better.

This is basically why I voted for BG for speaker. I would like someone with a decisive mind to be speaker rather than someone who wavers when push comes to shove. I'm not saying that streaker will waver, just that I know BG won't.

I don't agree with the "case" on epi so I'm not going to vote for him at this point. Some seem to push him for rolefishing which I kind of see how he was going towards, but I think it was more a case of "what would be the smartest thing to do in this situation" rather than "I need to know where the good PRs are". I think it's somewhat weird that some of those voting for epi are saying that alignment, not roles is of importance. By that logic, rolefishing becomes irrelevant.

I'd rather like to push a quiet one to participate like IB, but first a question for NoSurvivors: Are you saying that you won't participate D1 because you find it boring?

[Streaker]

I would imagine Mets try to fashion it like a typical two party system (which most democratic nations are): a bunch of liberals, a bunch of conservatives and a few third parties.

I don't necessarily agree 100% with the parenthesis, but that's besides the point.

@epi - i stated my reasoning in my post. I didnt want it to drag on and figured the sooner we got the ball rolling the better.

This is basically why I voted for BG for speaker. I would like someone with a decisive mind to be speaker rather than someone who wavers when push comes to shove. I'm not saying that streaker will waver, just that I know BG won't.

I don't agree with the "case" on epi so I'm not going to vote for him at this point. Some seem to push him for rolefishing which I kind of see how he was going towards, but I think it was more a case of "what would be the smartest thing to do in this situation" rather than "I need to know where the good PRs are". I think it's somewhat weird that some of those voting for epi are saying that alignment, not roles is of importance. By that logic, rolefishing becomes irrelevant.

I'd rather like to push a quiet one to participate like IB, but first a question for NoSurvivors: Are you saying that you won't participate D1 because you find it boring?

Lynching Epi now gives us a lot of information about you, too.

[Epitaph1]

Just check the Wheel of Time game, and IronButterfly has been quite active there while not posting in here at all.

Vote IronButterfly

This is silly. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt before, but this is just too weird to not call you on. Make a case against IB or Streak, not both. Or better yet, make a defense.

What? What's too weird about me pointing out someone who's scummarining?

---

So, everyone has tunneled on me so far this game. I've already explained my ideas about choosing the speaker and I'm not going to do that again. I'm not "nervous", as / suggested, but very annoyed that I'm the only one for getting heat for trying to move the discussion from the outset. No good deed goes unpunished on D1.

Anyway, I won't drag this out especially since I can prove my role.

I'm a Centrist. Without quoting my wincon, it's like a 3p survivor. However, I have a 1 shot day vig ability. That I can prove. Give me a target and I'll show you all.

I've already pointed out IB is playing in his other game but not here--although we'll see if he responds to the prod / asked for. I still think there is some value in the voting patterns for speaker, which is why I've asked people about it.

Let's draw up some other cases quick since we only have a week or so left.

[dakky21]

fp'd by epi

If my assumption is correct, this is no game of town vs mafia, this is a weird game of two big parties so lynching anyone D1 will be pure luck for one of the parties.

That said, let's get epi to L-2 and hopefully get an alignment claim.

vote epi

[Army of GOD]

unfortunately for epi, claiming a third party makes him an even better test candidate for getting the boot. Neither of the main problems have any qualms with getting him out.

[virus90]

unfortunately for epi, claiming a third party makes him an even better test candidate for getting the boot. Neither of the main problems have any qualms with getting him out.

i believe his claim to be honest. he already hinted 3th party at some point so this is no surprise to me. since im not in the game of hunting 3th party my vote wouldnt be on epi for now. what does killing him learn? he claimed "faction" Centrist, which flavourwise makes a lot of sense in my opinion. as in centrist, not on the right not on the left, not a democrat nor repupblican, not a labour not a tory --> so 3th party.
to be honest im not to enthoused about him using his ability to prove anything, especially not on me:P besides if i would shout a target for him now i wouldnt even be sure i wasnt aiming the gun at one of my own party.

[Army of GOD]

unfortunately for epi, claiming a third party makes him an even better test candidate for getting the boot. Neither of the main problems have any qualms with getting him out.

i believe his claim to be honest. he already hinted 3th party at some point so this is no surprise to me. since im not in the game of hunting 3th party my vote wouldnt be on epi for now. what does killing him learn? he claimed "faction" Centrist, which flavourwise makes a lot of sense in my opinion. as in centrist, not on the right not on the left, not a democrat nor repupblican, not a labour not a tory --> so 3th party.
to be honest im not to enthoused about him using his ability to prove anything, especially not on me:P besides if i would shout a target for him now i wouldnt even be sure i wasnt aiming the gun at one of my own party.

because if he claimed either lib or conserv then the side he claimed as would back off and we wouldn't have enough votes to lynch.

[dakky21]

because if he claimed either lib or conserv then the side he claimed as would back off and we wouldn't have enough votes to lynch.

plus we would all know who is on which side day one.

I do believe him also to be 3rd party, but he is the enemy just like the opposite party. So I will stay on the vote for now.

[Endgame422]

Im buying epis claim.
I voted AoG for speaker simply because ive never played with him before,so i wanted plenty of input from him.
I do think its left vs right with 3rd party tipping the scales.
That said epi would you consider making some kind of arrangement with one of the bigger parties?
A little bargain that we wont vote to lynch you if you agree to vote with us.
Functionally i would claim and you would essentially become part of our voting block(today you would just sheep with me as the only claimed member) with the added benefit that the other major party has less incentive to kill you because your 3rd party.
Ill extend this to anyone else who wants to claim 3rd party as well.
Seems a mutually beneficial situation as you get to live and my party gains the edge during the vote.
No hard feelings if youd rather not but your pretty likely to be lynched so people can keep alignments hidden.
Even if you prove your role and kill someone,youll still very likely be lynched.
Fpd by dakky who seems to be proving my point. Your options are not great epi.

[madmitch]

I am sorry I did not even realized the speaker called for a vote, the way I read it the victims are Epis and I.B. Epis claims third party and I.B. has not even to my knowledge taken notice to this game. so I say VOTE I.B.

[Endgame422]

I am sorry I did not even realized the speaker called for a vote, the way I read it the victims are Epis and I.B. Epis claims third party and I.B. has not even to my knowledge taken notice to this game. so I say VOTE I.B.

He did not call the vote.
People are still voting just for effect really,not actually to lynch right now.

[Metsfanmax]

UNOFFICIAL STRAW POLL:

Epitaph1 (8): Streaker, BGtheBrain, HotShot53, Army of GOD, NoSurvivors, /, JamesKer1, dakky21
Iron Butterfly (3): Epitaph1, dazza2008, madmitch

Epitaph1 would be lynched if these votes were to be placed during the main floor vote.

[madmitch]

WELL that,s the government for you one hand not knowing what the other one is doing? GO N.D.P

[Army of GOD]

Im buying epis claim.
I voted AoG for speaker simply because ive never played with him before,so i wanted plenty of input from him.
I do think its left vs right with 3rd party tipping the scales.
That said epi would you consider making some kind of arrangement with one of the bigger parties?
A little bargain that we wont vote to lynch you if you agree to vote with us.
Functionally i would claim and you would essentially become part of our voting block(today you would just sheep with me as the only claimed member) with the added benefit that the other major party has less incentive to kill you because your 3rd party.
Ill extend this to anyone else who wants to claim 3rd party as well.
Seems a mutually beneficial situation as you get to live and my party gains the edge during the vote.
No hard feelings if youd rather not but your pretty likely to be lynched so people can keep alignments hidden.
Even if you prove your role and kill someone,youll still very likely be lynched.
Fpd by dakky who seems to be proving my point. Your options are not great epi.

which party are you a part of? do you know who else is in it?

I will admit, I am one of the big two and I do not know anyone else who's in my party

[Epitaph1]

Im buying epis claim.
I voted AoG for speaker simply because ive never played with him before,so i wanted plenty of input from him.
I do think its left vs right with 3rd party tipping the scales.
That said epi would you consider making some kind of arrangement with one of the bigger parties?
A little bargain that we wont vote to lynch you if you agree to vote with us.
Functionally i would claim and you would essentially become part of our voting block(today you would just sheep with me as the only claimed member) with the added benefit that the other major party has less incentive to kill you because your 3rd party.
Ill extend this to anyone else who wants to claim 3rd party as well.
Seems a mutually beneficial situation as you get to live and my party gains the edge during the vote.
No hard feelings if youd rather not but your pretty likely to be lynched so people can keep alignments hidden.
Even if you prove your role and kill someone,youll still very likely be lynched.
Fpd by dakky who seems to be proving my point. Your options are not great epi.

As 3p, I'm basically here to make a deal. Idk how exactly I'll vote along party lines when I don't know who's in what party though. Even if you were to claim your alignment, End, I'm not sure all your allies are going to reveal themselves through their votes right off the bat.

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people are in different parties and can't win with those who are ideologically opposed to them or something like that, but what are night phases going to be like if that's the case? There has to be some kind of killing faction out there. . .or maybe not. We'll see tonight.

It's a wasted vote to lynch me since I can win with anyone.

[Endgame422]

Ill hold to claim exactly bearing on epis response.
Im one of the big 2 but do not know who my party members are.
If i claim though others who have the same alignment will follow and members of the opposite party will either have to lie and vote with us against thier fellows or they will have to gather in force to oppose us lynching one of theirs.
Epi can force people to claim or be dayvigged and then i can claim my party and who needs to be lynched of the forced claims,preferably 1 of each major party(whichever party is my opposition) my team can pile on and we take the majority vote plus epis vote so we can basically control the lynch.
Hence my offer to epi.
Hell 1 of each party could even claim unforced because if they are of the same alignment as i am its a winning strategy.
Fpd by epi.
You may be right but i think between members of the other party trying to be part of this little alliance and my actual party seeing my claim and jumping on i think we should pretty much control the lynch.
There may be players who can kill day/night and there are certainly still NAs that could be useful aside from kills.

[Endgame422]

Epi,you gotta listen to me here man.
Im obi-wan and your princess leia.
Im your only hope.

[BGtheBrain]

*****

[Epitaph1]

Ooooh. So you're saying this:

1) 2 big parties of equal size.
2) A few 3ps sprinkled in for good measure.

So, if you claim and everyone in your party claims, then I shoot one of the other party and we have a majority? If that's true, then this game could pretty much be over on D1.

That requires almost a mass claim on D1. I've already had my chestnuts roasted over the fire for suggesting something about roles, so if you guys want to start a mass alignment claim, that's your call.