Battle of the Bulge - CLOSED

[shieldgenerator7]

No saf I believe you misunderstand my post.

My reason for FOSing PMC is for the concept of NKing a survivor. I understand the difference between the two situations he described, but the way he presented it made is sound as tho vigging the survivor would change the "3 mafia, 1 survivor, 3 town" into: "3 mafia, 4 town", when in reality it changes it into "3 mafia, 3 town", which is obv a scum win. My FOS on PMC is for srsly suggesting vigging the survivor and the logic he used. (and now that I think of it for also trying to direct the vig, however scummy that is)

I'm voting JG on the other hand because of the inconsistency between his WC and the actions the proposals he's made. I guess that means he's willing to side with town, but like Rodion said that could be an easy fakeclaim. I guess if JG sides with town he's alright, but he could turn at any moment. SO i'm still keeping my eye on him.

So what's the diff between vigging and lynching the survivor? Lynching is more calculated and town usually gains more info, whereas if we vigged him it would waste a town power role's night action and it's the decision of jsut one person. Alright, I was just making this up. What I really think:

Vigging him would be killing him just to kill him b/c he's a survivor. Lynching would be more of getting info from his BW and killing him b/c his claim and actions don't line up.

FASTPOSTED

-SG7 ( )

[jgordon1111]

Ok, I didn't get online much yesterday and had a lot of pages to read up on in multiple games, and this one had most posts, so it got shoved on the back burner. But now I've caught up from page 14 and have noted what I thought was important thus far:

NOTES

show

So far, I find Doom suspicious for outing jak's softclaim and BWing on JG after his claim on grounds that, crash, I forget. Will go back and check maybe, but it was really shaky grounds or something. FOS DOOM

I also find it suspect that PMC wants JG vigged. His reasoning: 3 mafia, 1 survivor, 3 town = Mafia win; whereas 3 mafia, 4 town = Town still has a chance. This reasoning is faulty. For one, having equal town + 1 survivor is not a mafia win per se. There's a chance that town could still win. In the end, it's up to the mod what happens at this point, I guess. And vigging the survivor?! If we vigged the survivor that would decrease "potential town" numbers and give mafia easier win. If we don't vig the survivor, then the "3 mafia, 4 town" becomes "3 mafia, 4 town, 1 survivor" which has potential to be a better situation for town. Also, it's not really up to us who that 7th player in endgame is. It's more up to the mafia and who they kill, altho town does have some power w/ lynches (but not as much since lynches are more "blind"). I can't see why PMC didn't see this and think he was being intentionally misleading. I was only going to small fos him but I've convinced myself otherwise. FOS PMC

Now that takes me to the survivor. While catching up, I initially had eyes on jak, but he's townie (as far as we know), then I thought about Doom and JG, but JG really got my attention because he told us to "go play real mafia", which rather angered me. Now, I like constructive criticism but this seemed to be more of an insult. He later tried to prove his point with his "Doom you edited your post", but it seems it didn't catch too many skimmers (or maybe I skimmed that jg, who did you catch skimming with that maneuver?). And then Rodion points out inconsistencies in his posts about what he claims to be and what he tries to make his motives appear to be. He tries to look town by saying he will sacrifice himself for a doc, but claims survivor, and it clearly wouldn't be beneficial for him to sacrifice himself for the doc as a survivor. So due to this inconsistency in his posts, I think we may have found a fakeclaiming nazi. VOTE JGORDON

Also, about the SG7/S7C thing. S7C is my padowan and his SK claim mirrors my own constant mafia claiming.

Thanks for calling me out saf, 2 pages before I can respond. I honestly didn't even read your post until I was catching up, but I do feel loved for being called out for inactivity Thanks, saf.

I think that's all I needed to respond to at this point.

FASTPOSTED

yeah, yet another point against JG. I look forward to hearing your defense

-SG7 ( )

Defense, what defense I dont need no stinking defense. I know the odds of a survivor making it to the end,and I am trying to give you a shot at catching scum with their hand in the damn cookie jar.

God quit trying to analyze what I am saying and what my motives are.

All of you read into what people say way to much,and think you have scum when usually what you end up with is dead town.LOL

I have already explained myself in this game,and almost every game I have ever been in. ARGHHHH just read what I say literally,not what you think I might mean, Amused each time this happens. Used to get pissed now just amused alot.

Fastposted and fastposted Etcetera etcetera etcetera.

Two things here. First of all, what else do we have to judge guilt? Facial expressions? Cases are built on post analysis, I don't see how else we expect to get mafia besides praying that the cop gets a lucky investigation and is not killed.

Second of all, since you're neither town nor scum (allegedly) a lynch of you would not result in dead town.

Exactly Saf, some nut suggested vigging me, NO Bad Damn idea lynch me and watch those that have voted already for dumbass reasons or the hammer dropper I suggest when it comes time you look closely at chuck again LOL

Fastposted You are correct as I have pointed out several times SG7 freaking lynch me when it comes time if you cant pin scum down. DO NOT VIG

[jgordon1111]

Meta game here saf, mask mafia remember what I kept fighting with edoc about and who I got on N3. And how I said I did it.

[safariguy5]

No saf I believe you misunderstand my post.

My reason for FOSing PMC is for the concept of NKing a survivor. I understand the difference between the two situations he described, but the way he presented it made is sound as tho vigging the survivor would change the "3 mafia, 1 survivor, 3 town" into: "3 mafia, 4 town", when in reality it changes it into "3 mafia, 3 town", which is obv a scum win. My FOS on PMC is for srsly suggesting vigging the survivor and the logic he used. (and now that I think of it for also trying to direct the vig, however scummy that is)

I'm voting JG on the other hand because of the inconsistency between his WC and the actions the proposals he's made. I guess that means he's willing to side with town, but like Rodion said that could be an easy fakeclaim. I guess if JG sides with town he's alright, but he could turn at any moment. SO i'm still keeping my eye on him.

So what's the diff between vigging and lynching the survivor? Lynching is more calculated and town usually gains more info, whereas if we vigged him it would waste a town power role's night action and it's the decision of jsut one person. Alright, I was just making this up. What I really think:

Vigging him would be killing him just to kill him b/c he's a survivor. Lynching would be more of getting info from his BW and killing him b/c his claim and actions don't line up.

FASTPOSTED

-SG7 ( )

True, vigging could be a "wasted action" but remember that town vigs are supposed to be pretty cautious with their kills anyways. I've always been a big proponent of not vigging Night 1 unless we have a clear target (i.e. two people claim the same thing, we lynched the wrong one). So really, considering where we are at this time in the game, I wouldn't say it's a wasted action by the vig as a smart vig won't go randomly shooting on Night 1 anyways.

I'm still not convinced we'll find many leads from lynching jgordon. In my mind (and a lot of the other people I assume), there's enough evidence for a lynch, so really, scum could pick from several reasons to hop on the wagon. The best way to find scum is to find a divisive case and then look to see who was against the lynch. If the lynch turns up scum, then the people stonewalling the lynch are better candidates for future pressure/lynch. A lynch that has a lot of consensus, especially on Day 1, gives scum many reasons to get on the wagon.

So really, if the vig believes jg is worth vigging and we don't lynch jg today, I would be ok with that. Otherwise, if we believe that jg is the best lynch today, that's better than losing a townie, but I'm skeptical of exactly how much information we'll get. Jgordon, your suspicion of chuck and his general submarining is noted, but besides that, I doubt we'll find many more scum based on this one wagon alone.

[thechuck51]

you were on yesterday chuck and this morning yet no response and nothing to say here after warning me not to BW you,for an FOS. LOL

Come on chuck talk to me or any of us.

Between RL and the matrix mafia game (I am admittedly a bit overwhelmed between the two games) I am having trouble keeping up. I have been reading posts from my phone (which is why you see me online) but I need time to reread, get caught up on what I have missed and process all the information. I hope to do so soon.

[jgordon1111]

The logic in play here is mind boggling to say the least.

Are guys kidding me with this vig the survivor crap, c'mon some of you are supposed to be mafia players on CC.

Your chances of getting info(you need info,its a good thing) is increased with a lynch of a survivor you cant trust. Vigging the survivor is a net gain of nothing at all. Or accidentally revealing your vig(duh).

scenario your vig goes for the survivor(you have pre arranged this) mafia knows your going to,so freak it they join the kill. now your watcher has seen both killers,he lays back and starts asking questions. Here is where this is a bad idea, READ this carefully mafia jumps forward and claims the kill,or the vig claims it. either way a counter claim happens,now you have revealed your vig and watcher, odds are you guys will hang your vig(just a bet I would wager on in vegas) and opps when you find out to late that night you lose your watcher,this is a win win for mafia. anyone who says this is a good idea needs to refocus and get their head into this game. There are so many different ways this can go wrong it is unbelieveable.

If you cannot trust the survivor hang him,DO NOT BE STUPID and vig him. LOL I already suspect what is going to happen READ make your choices dont follow because you havent been in the game. get into it now or take the chance of losing.

[DoomYoshi]

This would be amazing jester play. I don't trust it though.

[everywhere116]

This would be amazing jester play. I don't trust it though.

I had an inkling the same way. What survivor would tell people to lynch himself?

[jgordon1111]

This would be amazing jester play. I don't trust it though.

And you keep trying to put down what I say is of no import doom, There is a reason I FOS'ed You as well.

I am talking from a outside view here I am neither town nor mafia,I knew I was done when I tried to draw attention away from the Doc.

But Doom every action you have taken this game is pure anti town in every sense. Starting with your complete outing of the doc and trying for an fos or lynch on him.

I knew I was done and am trying to get everyone involved in the game yet you say I am a jester.

You seem to prefer players skimming and blindly following a consensus that could be leading them all wrong, why would you want that?

You know my claim is legit quit trying to downplay what the others need to do for town to win,unless you have an ulterior motive for this.

[jgordon1111]

Everywhere you might want to steer clear of this one,remember I picked you as scum D1 last game we were in and you swung for it. I had you dead to rights when you called me out, want to try your luck again?

Look around some of those scum hunters are here as well. I am counting on them to carry this game to victory,because they have more sense than to just follow blindly.

They read,they evaluate, they play.

Survivor yes,want town to win yes. Knew I was dead when I claimed yes.

Done deal.

[everywhere116]

Everywhere you might want to steer clear of this one,remember I picked you as scum D1 last game we were in and you swung for it. I had you dead to rights when you called me out, want to try your luck again?

If you noticed I haven't picked a side. I was just commenting. Frankly Doom looks a bit more suspicious to me. And what happened in a previous game is irrelevant.

[safariguy5]

The logic in play here is mind boggling to say the least.

Are guys kidding me with this vig the survivor crap, c'mon some of you are supposed to be mafia players on CC.

Your chances of getting info(you need info,its a good thing) is increased with a lynch of a survivor you cant trust. Vigging the survivor is a net gain of nothing at all. Or accidentally revealing your vig(duh).

scenario your vig goes for the survivor(you have pre arranged this) mafia knows your going to,so freak it they join the kill. now your watcher has seen both killers,he lays back and starts asking questions. Here is where this is a bad idea, READ this carefully mafia jumps forward and claims the kill,or the vig claims it. either way a counter claim happens,now you have revealed your vig and watcher, odds are you guys will hang your vig(just a bet I would wager on in vegas) and opps when you find out to late that night you lose your watcher,this is a win win for mafia. anyone who says this is a good idea needs to refocus and get their head into this game. There are so many different ways this can go wrong it is unbelieveable.

If you cannot trust the survivor hang him,DO NOT BE STUPID and vig him. LOL I already suspect what is going to happen READ make your choices dont follow because you havent been in the game. get into it now or take the chance of losing.

Why would our watcher watch the vig kill on the survivor? We have a claimed doc, assuming we have a watcher, our watcher would be watching the doc to see if mafia try to kill/roleblock the doc.

I've heard enough, constant belittling of other players notwithstanding, jgordon's play is not indicative of a third party survivor and his constant attempts to direct play makes me think he's being disingenuous about town winning.

unvote vote jgordon

[jgordon1111]

Everywhere you might want to steer clear of this one,remember I picked you as scum D1 last game we were in and you swung for it. I had you dead to rights when you called me out, want to try your luck again?

If you noticed I haven't picked a side. I was just commenting. Frankly Doom looks a bit more suspicious to me. And what happened in a previous game is irrelevant.

True that was then this is now. You play at least,read and do what you think is best as I am sure you will. But I ask you to not follow that vig crap.

Lynching is better for getting info.

Fastposted by safari LOL again, your supposed to be able to read people better than this safari.

I am belittling those that are not playing or following blindly saf, hoping against hope they will come and play.

Good vote go for it.

[jgordon1111]

my list of possible scum

Safari guy,you are predictable. You cant help it for some reason, thats why I brought up the meta gaming against you earlier. and the fact thats how I killed you N3 in that game.

Doom is second for the obvious reasons.

And of course their is chuck who finally came in and said he was to busy with other games to be really involved with this one.

[thechuck51]

my list of possible scum

Safari guy,you are predictable. You cant help it for some reason, thats why I brought up the meta gaming against you earlier. and the fact thats how I killed you N3 in that game.

Doom is second for the obvious reasons.

And of course their is chuck who finally came in and said he was to busy with other games to be really involved with this one.

This and matrix are my first mafia games. Trying to stay current in both has been very difficult for me. If you look in the matrix thread, I was inactive for a couple of days in there as well. I am not neglecting one game for the other.

Tonight I have been able to catch up and I've come to a logical conclusion. A lynch of non-town is good. a survivor is non-town. you claim to be a survivor. therefore a lynch of you is good.

vote jgordon

[jgordon1111]

my list of possible scum

Safari guy,you are predictable. You cant help it for some reason, thats why I brought up the meta gaming against you earlier. and the fact thats how I killed you N3 in that game.

Doom is second for the obvious reasons.

And of course their is chuck who finally came in and said he was to busy with other games to be really involved with this one.

This and matrix are my first mafia games. Trying to stay current in both has been very difficult for me. If you look in the matrix thread, I was inactive for a couple of days in there as well. I am not neglecting one game for the other.

Tonight I have been able to catch up and I've come to a logical conclusion. A lynch of non-town is good. a survivor is non-town. you claim to be a survivor. therefore a lynch of you is good.

vote jgordon

At least now you are voting of your own accord, for your own reason. Good keep playing like that dont be lead because others tell you they know more.
you see something you dont like or trust,or you have a valid reason FOS or vote it.

Second game and you are learning.

[new guy1]

With 4 days left, we are still rushing into a lynch

[safariguy5]

my list of possible scum

Safari guy,you are predictable. You cant help it for some reason, thats why I brought up the meta gaming against you earlier. and the fact thats how I killed you N3 in that game.

Doom is second for the obvious reasons.

And of course their is chuck who finally came in and said he was to busy with other games to be really involved with this one.

This and matrix are my first mafia games. Trying to stay current in both has been very difficult for me. If you look in the matrix thread, I was inactive for a couple of days in there as well. I am not neglecting one game for the other.

Tonight I have been able to catch up and I've come to a logical conclusion. A lynch of non-town is good. a survivor is non-town. you claim to be a survivor. therefore a lynch of you is good.

vote jgordon

At least now you are voting of your own accord, for your own reason. Good keep playing like that dont be lead because others tell you they know more.
you see something you dont like or trust,or you have a valid reason FOS or vote it.

Second game and you are learning.

Predictability may not be a bad thing. If I play the same in every game, then it's more difficult to figure out alignment from game to game.

How about this, you're so certain I'm scum, why don't you put your money where your mouth is? I'll volunteer to take the lynch on the condition that you be lynched tomorrow if I turn up town. I'll say it right now, I'm town.

You claim to know a lot about mafia jgordon, you need to realize your "scum sense" or whatever is not as good as you think it is. Also, attacking me for voting you is about as blatant an OMGUS as you can get.

But hey, as you say, it's all part of the learning process right? Little humble pie never hurt anyone. I'll even help you out.

unvote vote safariguy5

[chapcrap]

Wow. This may be the most active Day I have been a part of. Just read 7 pages.

Ok, first of all, jgordon, please try to stop double posting...and being so crazy!! What I mean is I feel like you are really amped up and just going on a rage when your posting and it makes it difficult to understand quite everything you're saying. Also, for the record, I didn't skim. I'm the first one who questioned you on it. There were multiple people who skimmed, but I'm over it. I believe your claim right now. I still think that if we don't have a great candidate (very, very likely), we lynch jgordon. I don't think those votes will show us anything though. What are you thinking that the votes will show?

Secondly, I called Rodion out and he showed up with a couple of insightful posts, as I expected. However, I still think his play style this game is a little off, even if he did say he was trying to change it up. But I won't push that point.

Next, give chuck a break. This is only his second game and this is a lot. Especially with all of the meta crap going on for no reason. He might be scum, I don't know, but I think we have other things to worry about.

Also, I really, really likes SG7's post when he came back into the game. Go check it out again. Something it opened my eyes to was using a vig on jgordon. As / has already mentioned, the tone of the game suggests that there is a likely a mafia busdriver. Using a vig for a NK is a bad idea because with a mafia busdriver, you will essentially give the mafia two kills at night. The one person who brought it up and pushed for it was pmc. As a self proclaimed veteran, he should have known better and also known what he was doing. My thought: he did know. FOS pmc.

I buy jak's claim because I have no reason not to. He is most likely the doctor. You can't lynch a claimed doctor on Day 1. Silliest thing to do ever. Also, if there is another doctor, please don't counterclaim right now and expose yourself.

My vote will stay on Doom. Yes, I agreed with what you had to say about you fully exposing jak's claim. However, that doesn't mean you can't be pressured. As stated, at that time, I didn't see anyone else compelling and as I am still looking for scum, I went ahead and pressured someone for information, not for a lynch. My vote will stay until you claim. I think it's odd that pmc advocates you not claiming after previously stating that pressuring someone for claiming was good. FOS pmc again.

Ragian vs dazza: There was nothing wrong with that vote except for the fact that he is voting for someone for being inactive when there are plenty of actual cases and other things going on. I mean, what was the point?

Ok, I don't remember what SPART said right now because I read through 7 pages, but I do remember thinking, 'Thanks for nothing.'

I don't think I have anything else to say right now. What do you think about my comments? About pmc's actions? About how great SG7's post was?

P.S. Did I use my FOS's correctly, jgordon?

[Ragian]

Surely it's a bad idea to direct the vig if there's a mafia busdriver. Why are you so sure there is, chap?

[chapcrap]

Surely it's a bad idea to direct the vig if there's a mafia busdriver. Why are you so sure there is, chap?

I'm not so sure. I have just seen them a lot lately. And it would be very feasible in a game this size. And / pointed out something that ghostly said that made it seem more likely to me that there is a busdriver for the mafia. There might be, there might not be, but either way, I don't think it's safe for the mafia to know what a vig is going to do at night.

[Ragian]

Surely it's a bad idea to direct the vig if there's a mafia busdriver. Why are you so sure there is, chap?

I'm not so sure. I have just seen them a lot lately. And it would be very feasible in a game this size. And / pointed out something that ghostly said that made it seem more likely to me that there is a busdriver for the mafia. There might be, there might not be, but either way, I don't think it's safe for the mafia to know what a vig is going to do at night.

I never think it's a good idea to direct a vig on N1. Really, I think the vig should stay at home unless, as one guy mentioned, we have two players claiming the same and we lynch the wrong one.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Wow. This may be the most active Day I have been a part of. Just read 7 pages.

Ok, first of all, jgordon, please try to stop double posting...and being so crazy!! What I mean is I feel like you are really amped up and just going on a rage when your posting and it makes it difficult to understand quite everything you're saying. Also, for the record, I didn't skim. I'm the first one who questioned you on it. There were multiple people who skimmed, but I'm over it. I believe your claim right now. I still think that if we don't have a great candidate (very, very likely), we lynch jgordon. I don't think those votes will show us anything though. What are you thinking that the votes will show?

i have to agree with the meniacal ranting part. i have done it before (power roles) and it just ended casting more suspicion on me so from one player to another i say its a bad idea. i honestly dont know the point in that trick jgordon played cause it didnt do anything IMO if you wanna catch someone for skimming wait till they screw up. you dont make a case cause someone skimmed you make a case and add in that they skimmed. if you lynch someone because they skimmed its a terrible idea. anyway i also believe your claim. and i even agree if there is no better target that we lynch jgordon because it would not hurt town (besides the fact that he cant talk or throw in his input).

Secondly, I called Rodion out and he showed up with a couple of insightful posts, as I expected. However, I still think his play style this game is a little off, even if he did say he was trying to change it up. But I won't push that point.

Next, give chuck a break. This is only his second game and this is a lot. Especially with all of the meta crap going on for no reason. He might be scum, I don't know, but I think we have other things to worry about.

Also, I really, really likes SG7's post when he came back into the game. Go check it out again. Something it opened my eyes to was using a vig on jgordon. As / has already mentioned, the tone of the game suggests that there is a likely a mafia busdriver. Using a vig for a NK is a bad idea because with a mafia busdriver, you will essentially give the mafia two kills at night. The one person who brought it up and pushed for it was pmc. As a self proclaimed veteran, he should have known better and also known what he was doing. My thought: he did know. FOS pmc.

the thought about the mafia busdriver is reasonable but is there a chance that there is a town busdriver as well? just a thought. and the thing about the vig if there is one i suggest they lay low till THEY think that he will hit a mafia. if there is a mafia busdriver i suggest not listening to town and to go your own way (this way mafia cant busdrive you) i know that sounds anti town but it really is in the best interest of the town. and yes you seem to be onto something with pmc he did push on that and then get rather queit.


I buy jak's claim because I have no reason not to. He is most likely the doctor. You can't lynch a claimed doctor on Day 1. Silliest thing to do ever. Also, if there is another doctor, please don't counterclaim right now and expose yourself.

My vote will stay on Doom. Yes, I agreed with what you had to say about you fully exposing jak's claim. However, that doesn't mean you can't be pressured. As stated, at that time, I didn't see anyone else compelling and as I am still looking for scum, I went ahead and pressured someone for information, not for a lynch. My vote will stay until you claim. I think it's odd that pmc advocates you not claiming after previously stating that pressuring someone for claiming was good. FOS pmc again.

doom does seem on the scummy side to me but to be honest the way the skimming part of the case was brought up and his reaction seems on the overly defensive side and it is not helping him. but i wont vote for him as i think there is a chance he is town. vote jgordon because do to his claim he is third party and as chuck said\

Tonight I have been able to catch up and I've come to a logical conclusion. A lynch of non-town is good. a survivor is non-town. you claim to be a survivor. therefore a lynch of you is good.

a lynch on you is good. it wont hurt town and it might give us info mation.
Ragian vs dazza: There was nothing wrong with that vote except for the fact that he is voting for someone for being inactive when there are plenty of actual cases and other things going on. I mean, what was the point?

there was no point.

Ok, I don't remember what SPART said right now because I read through 7 pages, but I do remember thinking, 'Thanks for nothing.'

I don't think I have anything else to say right now. What do you think about my comments? About pmc's actions? About how great SG7's post was?

as SG7 is my master i will not dis on him.

P.S. Did I use my FOS's correctly, jgordon?

[jgordon1111]

as a matter of fact yes you did use it correct chap,good reference point to come back to with reasons that you did it.

No not amped up or mad, What I am trying to accomplish is to get everyone in here and play,to read and make choices based on what they themselves think.

@ safari,now that was out of character for you,way out and no I dont think you will get lynched as you well know,you calculated the risk and know the odds are you wont be,but it does try and make you look more townish. A claim would have been a better gambit if you were really serious though.

As for chuck I think he might have just got unlucky,still got to watch him though.

Doom very bad scum vibes from you.

And I gave a scenario of my own on vigging,but at the end I said to many things can go wrong a busdriver in the game could be one of them.

Dont be fooled a lynch is better than a vig.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

as a matter of fact yes you did use it correct chap,good reference point to come back to with reasons that you did it.

No not amped up or mad, What I am trying to accomplish is to get everyone in here and play,to read and make choices based on what they themselves think.

i know you want people to do that but you really have no influence unless you start pressure. if you dont pressure they wont care that you care. so instead of saying it fiind an inactive and pressure him. i guarantee they show their faces so they save their ass.

@ safari,now that was out of character for you,way out and no I dont think you will get lynched as you well know,you calculated the risk and know the odds are you wont be,but it does try and make you look more townish. A claim would have been a better gambit if you were really serious though.

what he is doing makes him look townish just like typing this and then sneaking this in there? you said a few things a town would say and then you sneak in something scum would say. doesnt seem right
As for chuck I think he might have just got unlucky,still got to watch him though.

unlucky for being busy? i was busy too but it wasnt luck it was just...well cause i got busy end of story..no luck involved.Doom very bad scum vibes from you.

And I gave a scenario of my own on vigging,but at the end I said to many things can go wrong a busdriver in the game could be one of them.

Dont be fooled a lynch is better than a vig.

ya we all know that i dont know who said otherwise maybe i just missed it but i agree that lynching someone is better (besides the fact that we would get flavor from the night scene)