Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - Endgame

[jonty125]

Steal/Block its all the same jak, when regarding votes, isn't it?

[vodean]

Steal/Block its all the same jak, when regarding votes, isn't it?

its different for him, the same for us.

[jak111]

Steal/Block its all the same jak, when regarding votes, isn't it?

its different for him, the same for us.

I look at a block as it's gone, not there. I look at a steal as in it's there but the person can't use it because someone else has it instead.

I suspect there's some kind of Role Copier at work here, since putting two of the same roles in the game is just boring. If there are two of the same, I suspect your counterpart is on the other team.

A role copier would be interesting but I wonder how its mechanics would work. Would they copy my role and THEN use it? Or would they copy my role and use it at the same time without knowing the effects of it until later.

One sounds like a townish role like Inventor, which they are using roles but don't know what they do.

The other sounds like mafia, where they could decide who to use it on.

I find it odd though that Illiad is missing his vote though, because I was thinking of taking it in the night and get 3 votes XD but of course I checked before I did, and without confirming anything, I would not have two votes, so I decided to leave it in the dust and take Victors whom's vote could be useful, since I didn't see him use it too much yesterday It's a weird coincidence that Illiad is missing his vote though after my thought of taking it. Obviously someone else had a similar idea. Which would lead me to another question... if I DID take Illiad's vote, who would have it? Me? Or the other person?

But for now, I think it will be safe to say that if the other person doesn't step forward, we can assume that they are anti-town.

Also, to answer Aage, I already mentioned it that I stole his vote, that is what I mean by it was confirmed when you asked.

Back to a larger picture though. Does anyone have anything, or bits of info they can share to shed some light on flavour? Are there any town that aren't saints? Are there 3rd party would wish to town side? (Doubtful atm, but doesn't hurt to ask x3)

[samgrossy]

Back to a larger picture though. Does anyone have anything, or bits of info they can share to shed some light on flavour? Are there any town that aren't saints? Are there 3rd party would wish to town side? (Doubtful atm, but doesn't hurt to ask x3)

I know I keep hammering Jak here, but it seems no one is telling me that I am wrong (or right) here.

To me, this is the third scummy thing that Jak has done today. Now he is asking for people to claim in, what is essentially, the first day since there was no lynch yesterday and no nightkill. There isn't really any pressure on anyone to do so, and I think he is hiding his intent as "Let's try to figure this out" when underneath it all it seems like "Let's give scum a target at night"

Someone want to add something to my discussion, except for maybe Jak?

[aage]

Back to a larger picture though. Does anyone have anything, or bits of info they can share to shed some light on flavour? Are there any town that aren't saints? Are there 3rd party would wish to town side? (Doubtful atm, but doesn't hurt to ask x3)

I know I keep hammering Jak here, but it seems no one is telling me that I am wrong (or right) here.

To me, this is the third scummy thing that Jak has done today. Now he is asking for people to claim in, what is essentially, the first day since there was no lynch yesterday and no nightkill. There isn't really any pressure on anyone to do so, and I think he is hiding his intent as "Let's try to figure this out" when underneath it all it seems like "Let's give scum a target at night"

Someone want to add something to my discussion, except for maybe Jak?

Scum already has three targets for tonight, I doubt that is Jak's intention.

[Victor Sullivan]

*sigh* So what is our game plan as of right now? It seems like this has just been meaningless jibbery-jabbery honky-tonk.

-Sully

[aage]

*sigh* So what is our game plan as of right now? It seems like this has just been meaningless jibbery-jabbery honky-tonk.

-Sully

I like how you think this is a meaningful contribution. People were actually discussing things, fyi. Please point me to that post where you made your own case.
Still you have a point I guess. Since the argument against Jak died out there isn't much left to discuss it seems.

[samgrossy]

*sigh* So what is our game plan as of right now? It seems like this has just been meaningless jibbery-jabbery honky-tonk.

-Sully

I think that I have really been trying to create some discussion on Jak. He has done some things that I thought scummy, I pointed them out, and am trying to get discussion. Believe it or not, it was working. Someone responded to me with a counter point. Are you skimming? I think that you aren't really reading the posts if you think that my arguments have been jibbery-jabbery honky-tonk.

FoS SULLY

[/]

well, I don't like how jak has been jumping to a hundred conclusions a page, "William of York" MUST be an angel, you know YORK, that part of England populated by Angels...
Then Humans MUST be cult
Then oh wait, I'm human? ANGELS MUST BE CULT!
I'm seriously not putting much faith in jak at this point of the game...
However, his claim does at the very least make sense in a research flavor sense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_of_York
^^please read this to see if you concur.
I'm more interested in Iliad's claim at this point, he still refuses to confirm his claim of "Saint Elisabeth" with any sort of background, despite my repeated inquiry. (if you don't know, ask edoc...)
He has been missing, but HAS logged on today.
Plus, a doublevoter and a vote stealer, I could see one or the other being scum.
Vote illy

[aage]

well, I don't like how jak has been jumping to a hundred conclusions a page, "William of York" MUST be an angel, you know YORK, that part of England populated by Angels...
Then Humans MUST be cult
Then oh wait, I'm human? ANGELS MUST BE CULT!
I'm seriously not putting much faith in jak at this point of the game...
However, his claim does at the very least make sense in a research flavor sense.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_of_York
^^please read this to see if you concur.
I'm more interested in Iliad's claim at this point, he still refuses to confirm his claim of "Saint Elisabeth" with any sort of background, despite my repeated inquiry. (if you don't know, ask edoc...)
He has been missing, but HAS logged on today.
Plus, a doublevoter and a vote stealer, I could see one or the other being scum.
Vote illy

Already checked the page when he claimed it and reached the same conclusion. Right now I'm disregarding this as the general Jak-crap (I tend to cut slack with Jak and Vodean in the firs two rounds...) but keep my vote on him in lack of better targets. Iliad is obviously not posting, but if memory serves that's nothing new. Right now I'm more interested in the existence of two vote stealers than one doublevoter. An ???-vote is usually town aligned and it serves no purpose to kill what is probably an asset.

[safariguy5]

Back to a larger picture though. Does anyone have anything, or bits of info they can share to shed some light on flavour? Are there any town that aren't saints? Are there 3rd party would wish to town side? (Doubtful atm, but doesn't hurt to ask x3)

I know I keep hammering Jak here, but it seems no one is telling me that I am wrong (or right) here.

To me, this is the third scummy thing that Jak has done today. Now he is asking for people to claim in, what is essentially, the first day since there was no lynch yesterday and no nightkill. There isn't really any pressure on anyone to do so, and I think he is hiding his intent as "Let's try to figure this out" when underneath it all it seems like "Let's give scum a target at night"

Someone want to add something to my discussion, except for maybe Jak?

I said the same thing to vodean when he (whether knowingly or not) set the stage to potentially out town angels. I'm of the belief that angels would have stronger powers than town aligned humans, so I think it's pretty dangerous to be getting people to claim angel/saint simply to clear up flavor issues.

FOS Jak

[jak111]

Back to a larger picture though. Does anyone have anything, or bits of info they can share to shed some light on flavour? Are there any town that aren't saints? Are there 3rd party would wish to town side? (Doubtful atm, but doesn't hurt to ask x3)

I know I keep hammering Jak here, but it seems no one is telling me that I am wrong (or right) here.

To me, this is the third scummy thing that Jak has done today. Now he is asking for people to claim in, what is essentially, the first day since there was no lynch yesterday and no nightkill. There isn't really any pressure on anyone to do so, and I think he is hiding his intent as "Let's try to figure this out" when underneath it all it seems like "Let's give scum a target at night"

Someone want to add something to my discussion, except for maybe Jak?

I said the same thing to vodean when he (whether knowingly or not) set the stage to potentially out town angels. I'm of the belief that angels would have stronger powers than town aligned humans, so I think it's pretty dangerous to be getting people to claim angel/saint simply to clear up flavor issues.

FOS Jak

I'm not asking for all claims, just maybe one who thinks he's willing to shed some light on this matter. We assume a lot of things so far and atm, without investigations, no deaths, etc, etc, there isn't much I can do besides speculate and try to come to a reasonable answer. Right now there is none besides thoughts. Do I think angels are mafia? Most likely not, but it IS a possibility I can't simply rule out. That might be fine for the rest of ya, but I'll keep my thoughts open until I see solid evidence of this or that. So far with claims going, it seems like humans (everyone who's claimed so far) are town (well what else will they claim XD) so it comes to my conclusion that humans may be town at this point and with no outed angels as of yet we do not have the full extent to what side they are on.

Safari, do you remember Everywhere's game? The one where the "mafia" were the town but there were TWO mafias of 3 people. The FBI and the KGB? Not that that's 100% but it's a possibility until proven otherwise.

It might seem like I'm bringing crap to the table, but I only have a limited view on the matters atm, so unless someone feels like shedding their piece of the puzzle for me, I don't mean to offend here, but f*ck off and relax, it's Mafia, I am not good with only ever being able to have one piece of a puzzle until I can see how the other pieces are put into play. Am I perfect? Hell no, but who is in here?

well, I don't like how jak has been jumping to a hundred conclusions a page, "William of York" MUST be an angel, you know YORK, that part of England populated by Angels...

^ Ouch. I knew York was in England, but I thought maybe he was the angel of York, I'm not a big religious text reader, I hear bits and pieces and know this and that, but I don't have all the knowledge on present day relgions, I'm better educated in the Greek religion, Norse religion (Sweden, Norway, Finland, etc), and Egyptian religion. Those are the three I better understand. So sorry for not knowing who/what he was exactly.

Though, it strikes me odd of something... Mr.Squirrel said he had a role which tested if someone was an angel... that either sounds like a fake claim or a mafia role to find angels. Sorry if I'm wrong here, but doesn't it? Why else would he want to know who was angel or not?

Unvote, Vote Mr.Squirrel (Also gonna test my second vote to see if it works, or if that was screwed with too).

[strike wolf]

Jak gets told he's jumping to too many conclusions too quickly, jumps to another conclusion.

Seriously, you are pretty much confirmed as a vote stealer butjumping around all over the place and the arguing semantics isn't going to help your case. The best way to form cases is to use accurate FACTS to form theories, not wild speculations over one fact to make a case.

[ShaggyDan]

I'm happy to leave my vote on Jak. The claim of stealing the vote but not being able to vote with it still doesn't add up. Plus a whole bunch of suspect behaviour that people have already brought to life. Other than that in reading through I don't have anything to add.

I am still oppposed to no lynching today (as was discussed a few pages ago when I was last on... but I don't think that is an issue at the moment).

[jak111]

^ While you guys continue to ignore my points I will point out another thing I've noticed, just a few inactives it seems.

~ DJ
~ DRoZ
~ Gregwolf (Who was catching up last time he spoke)
~ Iliad

and others who aren't inactive, but they are just getting by by a one liner every few days. The above have been inactive for a week or more though and no one seems to have noticed their absence.

I may or may not have information to share from last night. First though, Vio can you tell me what faction you're a part of (Angels, demons, etc.)?

Saint, though I'm not sure why you need to know this. Also, do you really expect that I would've said Demons?

Hm. Without some more information on the game's setup, its hard for me to evaluate your claim. I have a night action that (among other things) can tell me whether or not I visited an angel at night. I know that you aren't an angel, but what I don't know is if 'saints' are the human faction or if they are grouped among the angels. If the latter is true, then you would be lying (and most likely scum).

It would seem weird to me if they were considered humans (since most of the time people pray to them as envoys on their behalf to god) but I don't know what edocsil did here. If anyone can clarify this for me, I would appreciate it.

Also there's still this that people seem to have ignored in my post ~Cough~ Strike ~Cough~ "wild speculations" ~Cough~ x3 There, I must be coming down with a cold or something because I've been coughing all day.

But seriously, do you not find it funny that his role is SPECIFICALLY to find angels? What's so special about angels at this point when we haven't found any? The only way I see this being a good role is if it were sided with a scum faction. What do you guys think? Or is this jumping to conclusions too much for you Strike?

[chapcrap]

At this point, I think we need to lynch one of the people who has been at the center of everything OR an inactive. Which you choose to do is simply a matter of your personal mafia game philosophy. For my part, I think that lynching one of the people who are at the center of everything is the best option right now, because it will yield more information I believe. So, I think we either lynch Iliad, jak, or VS. IMO, VS would be the last of those three.

[strike wolf]

Yes Jak it is. you are jumping to a conclusion because the role he has may be something good for town. We don't know the full extent of the set up and in fact you've made yourself over time look fairly contradictory. Angels are town, humans are probably third party. Humans are town angels could be scum. Mr. Squirrel has a role that hunts angels. How does finding out who angels are help town? Really if you aren't convinced that angels are town than that's at least one reason. Personally, Squirrel's role to me just looks like a weakened version of cop and if he was scum it doesn't really explain why he would just up and claim out of nowhere to question Vio. So yes your case on squirrel has a lot of wild speculation. Shifting your opinion around every few posts may not get you lynched but it will make your viewpoint weaker to the rest of the town even if you do come up with a good case.

At this point, we really need to either get Illiad talking or have him replaced. His silence is really what is stalling town the more than anything else.

[edocsil]

At this point, we really need to either get Illiad talking or have him replaced. His silence is really what is stalling town the more than anything else.

He has been active enough that I cannot in good faith replace him.

[chapcrap]

Yes Jak it is. you are jumping to a conclusion because the role he has may be something good for town.

You are you talking to here?

At this point, we really need to either get Illiad talking or have him replaced. His silence is really what is stalling town the more than anything else.

I agree with this. He's in the middle of things and then claiming his vote got blocked, which isn't even confirmed (just like his role isn't confirmed).

[strike wolf]

At this point, we really need to either get Illiad talking or have him replaced. His silence is really what is stalling town the more than anything else.

He has been active enough that I cannot in good faith replace him.

His last post anywhere (that I can view) on this site was 10 days ago.

[strike wolf]

Yes Jak it is. you are jumping to a conclusion because the role he has may be something good for town.

You are you talking to here?

It was an answer to Jak's question regarding whether his case was wild speculation or not.

[edocsil]

At this point, we really need to either get Illiad talking or have him replaced. His silence is really what is stalling town the more than anything else.

He has been active enough that I cannot in good faith replace him.

His last post anywhere (that I can view) on this site was 10 days ago.

I prodded him. He posted about 5 times today, which meant I wasn't considering him for replacement with people who had not even posted. I will add a new rule to the op saying that if you do not post for 7 days that you will be replaced without waring.

[aage]

But seriously, do you not find it funny that his role is SPECIFICALLY to find angels? What's so special about angels at this point when we haven't found any? The only way I see this being a good role is if it were sided with a scum faction. What do you guys think? Or is this jumping to conclusions too much for you Strike?

Firstly, you want to kill someone who claimed their role because they might have found scum. I don't even see why I would need to explain to you why that idea is stupid. Secondly, didn't you claim to be an angel? Thirdly, yes that role is good for town because it gives us confirmed townies, you... can I say "idiot"? I received an official warning in the alphabet thread when I used the term 'cultf@g' (masterfully concealed in this post) so I'll just say that where you're going now is the weirdest standard-Jak-crap I've ever seen you put out. Now I think would be a good time to answer some of the accusations made against you.


Yes, a prod on Iliad please.

ChapCrap, why would his role not be confirmed? I thought Edocsil posted a vote count with "victor - ???" in it right after Iliad cast his supposed second vote. In the off chance someone else set it up, we can still deduce that there is a double voter and a vote stealer. Since Iliad claims to have lost his anonymous vote, there is no way he can prove that he cannot cast it.

[Mr. Squirrel]

Sorry I've been quiet guys. I've had an outrageously busy weekend and I've got a few papers due this week. I will read up and post when I can.

[chapcrap]

ChapCrap, why would his role not be confirmed? I thought Edocsil posted a vote count with "victor - ???" in it right after Iliad cast his supposed second vote. In the off chance someone else set it up, we can still deduce that there is a double voter and a vote stealer. Since Iliad claims to have lost his anonymous vote, there is no way he can prove that he cannot cast it.

Thanks for ignoring my previous post. Here it is:

Subject: Golden Pantheon - Angels and Demons - D2 25/25

Ok, I just caught up on 10 pages. Sorry for the inactivity.

I admit it slipped my mind that victors had not been confirmed yet. as for illiad, he proved his role yesterday so innocent until proven guilty on that end.

I just want to say that this is not confirmed. I thought that immediately and now it's an actual issue. All that was confirmed was that there was a secret vote put on Victor. It wasn't confirmed that it was Iliad. It also wasn't confirmed that he even has double votes. At the time of the ??? vote, Iliad was not voting anyone else, so there was no way to know if he's telling the truth or not.

Next, if you do believe Iliad, people said that he probably was town because it would make mafia too strong. Well, now that there is a at least one vote stealer/blocker, I think we can not assume that Iliad is town at all. He can be any faction.

As far as mechanics of the game, I don't really care at this point. It's all just speculation and conjecture for no reason. We have nothing to go on. It's not going to help us catch scum today. So, I won't be participating in that discussion.

The one other thing that I wanted to comment on was when Mr. S outed his investigation of Vio, someone immediately asked him to full role claim. I thought that was pretty scummy. I'll go back and look who.... It was jonty.

Also, jak, you're in luck, Jesus accepts anyone!