Battle of the Bulge - CLOSED

[jak111]

While Chap did not vote for Clever here's what I find interesting over the past 2 pages or so.

However, I agree with was saf said about jak. More than anything, I think it's ridiculous that jak tries to guide the doctor for absolutely no reason. Guiding the doctor to a specific person is scummy in itself, because you need to guide the doctor on day 1 by giving them information to go on in general.

Not only is it ridiculous to guide the doctor to a specific person, it's even more ridiculous when the person in question is in no way proven to be town or be helpful to town.

AND, the reason given for saving him is even more absurd. If you have no idea what pmc's role is, how can you say that you need him to answer question about night intel? The whole thing is preposterous and makes me think that you are scum who is trying to guide the doctor into doing something predictable.

unvote vote jak

Through IMO faulty logic and repeating safs point three or four times he forms part of his first BW.

It was faulty because guiding the doctor can end in a double protection AND it wasn't even his own original thought he just copied sarifguy.

It was faulty logic because jak's idea might work sometimes... That doesn't make it faulty logic. That means what jak did isn't completely dumb all of the time. And just because someone said the same thing before doesn't mean my thought isn't my own thought or isn't valid. Boom, points 2 and 3 shot down.

do you want me to explain? These votes:[list][*]jak: He tried to direct the doctor. To me, that shouldn't happen. Already explained why.

Yes, I'd love for you to dig yourself a deeper hole Chap. Let me point out what I highlighted.
Blue: Chap says that he agrees with Saf that there was NO reason for me to guide the doc (Doesn't give examples for what reason I could).
Orange: He then turns around and says my idea is still faulty but it might work sometimes...? (Admitting that he knew that there WAS a reason, also how can it be faulty AND work sometimes?)
Red: Wait a minute, did he NOT just point out it was faulty and now he says it's not faulty logic. Then he goes and tries to make a personal attack. "Not dumb all the time" In no way do I see that referring to game play, that's referring to my intelligence personally and that's not cool bud.

So "BOOM" I just blew you out of the water with your contradictory speech. First you say I have no reason, and then admit to that I did, and then immediately turn around in the same post to say I'm not stupid all the time. Nice mate, real nice.

Also, the more I look at "It's faulty logic but it might work... That does not make it faulty" What the hell? Can you explain this for me? How can it be faulty, but not be faulty, while making sense and not making sense?

Fastposted by Dazza, no worries mate, Chap is just being a douche (as I pointed out in red) lately to anyone who questions him and trying to put the pressure on someone else -.-.

[jgordon1111]

I'm struggling to keep up here. I can't really read a lot through the day and at night I am too tired to read all this. I will try to catch up tonight. No promises though.

So, as soon as Ragian posts something about you being inactive, this is what you come back with? Weak.

And I agree about Rodion being inactive and it being odd for him. I already posted about that.

Yes I saw that as I skimmed through. I'm not going to contribute much after skimming but I thought I should address something I noticed.

I am a single dad with 2 young kids. If I don't have time to read the thread then I don't have time. If it is a problem I will drop out. Hopefully I won't be busy tomorrow and can read up what I missed.

Remember what you saw and bring it to the table next post dazza. doesnt matter what, if its something you think everyone needs to think about bring it.

Whatever chap you say you have reasons for voting, I ask for your exact criteria due to you saying me commenting on playing style is not helpful and I am scummy. What criteria do you use chap? break it down for me exactly beings I am, uh brainless. You are now resorting to that other scum tactic when in a corner do what?

Damn fastposted by jak, I have to agree he is now close and throwing out anything he can think of,not remembering what he has said previously.

[new guy1]

So, the only point you still contend in your case against me is that you think I should list reasons for all my votes? This case is looking more and more like swiss cheese every minute.

First of all, it's Day 1. You don't need scummy reasons to vote someone. If you do have a scummy reason, then it's a plus, but it's not necessary. All you are looking for is information, which I have already stated. I'm looking for people to claim and make scum slips.

Who do you want me to explain? These votes:

• jak: He tried to direct the doctor. To me, that shouldn't happen. Already explained why.
• jgordon: He was acting scummy. Everyone thought so. He continued acting scummy even after his claim. He claims survivor and then votes himself and says he wants town to win. The whole thing doesn't make any sense. He should be lynched if no one else is definitely scummy. That looks more and more like what will happen today and I am fine with that.
• Doom: He was already being pressured and I was trying to force more pressure.
• newguy1: It seemed like he was trying to deflect pressure very quickly. He hadn't been posting a lot and then after Leehar voted him following jak's list, he all of sudden was available for a lot of defensive posting very quickly. Seemed a little strange to me that all of a sudden he was paying extra attention to the thread.

To those who were trying to agree with voting me if I don't give a great reason for all of my votes: After pmc made a giant post for a case, the only thing he really has left is that I have to have a 100% awesome reason for every vote I've made on Day 1. Please. If that's the basis of why you are voting, then whoever votes needs to get with it.

Moving on...

I'm struggling to keep up here. I can't really read a lot through the day and at night I am too tired to read all this. I will try to catch up tonight. No promises though.

So, as soon as Ragian posts something about you being inactive, this is what you come back with? Weak.

And I agree about Rodion being inactive and it being odd for him. I already posted about that.

So in essence you are just voting and commenting on peoples playing. You tried to claim I was scum because I was commenting on playstyles and not contributing. hmmmm chap you keep contradicting yourself,just a few more please. UNVOTE VOTE CHAP for consistently contradicting himself when he is feeling pressure.

Im not going to lie nor dull this, but I laughed my ass off when I read this. What the hell JG? He posted what you asked for which was his criteria on voting who he did, and he posted a list of who and why. What did you want if you didnt want this? I have to say Chap crap definatly won this one, and he even gave me a reason for why he voted me that was enoguh for me to understand and was good enough for a day one vote in my eyes. Sure I dont agree with the people he voted but he had good enough reasons for who he voted.

fastposted- he might be being an ass to some people because he is now a father, therefore he could you know, be tired?

fastposted again- well JG if you read this post then you will see why.

[pmchugh]

So in essence you are just voting and commenting on peoples playing. You tried to claim I was scum because I was commenting on playstyles and not contributing. hmmmm chap you keep contradicting yourself,just a few more please. UNVOTE VOTE CHAP for consistently contradicting himself when he is feeling pressure.

So, in essence you're making things up again?

I didn't claim you were scum because all you you were doing was commenting on people's game play. I just said that's all you were doing. I said that a day or two ago. I voted you over a week ago, so those were completely separate instances and they weren't even contradictory.

Please provide me with a contradiction I made. Use quotes instead of made up thoughts from inside your own head.

Not true at all chap,as soon as you go ahead and validate the criteria you have been using for how you decide to vote I will be glad to tie it together for you. You are just about one step from getting uncovered as scum chap,take the plunge. Quit avoiding the question I have asked you 3 times now and others are also asking. Exactly what criteria are you using to vote.

Umm... I just gave my reasons and you quoted them. Grow a brain. Can anyone decipher what the crap jgordon actually wants?

Well, pmc, if you said you were voting me to pressure me, I would accept that. I would let everyone vote me and claim and L-2. You can continue to vote me if you want, you just don't have a scum case on me. And you can call my logic on jak faulty if you want, but I thought it was good logic and I still do. I'm not the only one who thought so.

And, I didn't give an explanation for a vote on CLEVER because I don't think I ever voted CLEVER.

Any more questions?

OMG you are making me rage lol. Yes I have a question:

Have you, or have you not been voting people for no reason other than to get them to claim?

p.s. it doesn't strictly matter if you voted clever or not, you still supported his BW. Note that you explained your reasoning for jgordon even though you never voted for him either. I explained this in my initial case against you.

[safariguy5]

Just a clarification here, from what I understand, chap's vote on doom was the only one that was bandwagonning "for sake of getting a claim". Does one vote constitute a case? I don't think so. Something to be noted maybe, but not a case.

[chapcrap]

jak, I was being sarcastic in my response that you quoted. I wasn't saying my logic was faulty. Also, I wasn't making a personal attack when I said it wasn't dumb all the time. That wasn't meant to be anything against you. I do compliment you for spelling douche correctly though. Most people don't. However, I wasn't being a douche to dazza at all. Are you trying to defend his response once he got called out? Ragian called him out and he immediately gave a crappy response. That's not being mean. that's the truth.

Ok, jgordon, you're the only one who thinks what you're saying makes sense. I already gave reasons for voting. When I told you to grow a brain, it may have been personal. You just keep asking me to answer things that I just answered.

\OMG you are making me rage lol. Yes I have a question:

Have you, or have you not been voting people for no reason other than to get them to claim?

p.s. it doesn't strictly matter if you voted clever or not, you still supported his BW. Note that you explained your reasoning for jgordon even though you never voted for him either. I explained this in my initial case against you.

Sorry for making you rage. That reminds me of a funny quote from a baseball player. I'll see if I can find a youtube video...

show: Rage Video

Anyway, this seems to be the only reasonable response to my defense. The answer is, I have not been voting solely to get people to claim. However, that is a large part of my motivation on Day 1. The vote on Doom was the closest to doing it solely to get a claim, because I didn't think there was that much going on there. I'd say 80% to get him to claim/respond/scumslip, 8% for the actual case on him, and 12% for reactions and other votes. Of course, those percentages are rough estimates, I did not doing any research to get those results.

[jgordon1111]

Just a clarification here, from what I understand, chap's vote on doom was the only one that was bandwagonning "for sake of getting a claim". Does one vote constitute a case? I don't think so. Something to be noted maybe, but not a case.

Saf BW's are for getting claims,so why the other votes,was chap seriously just hopping from vote to vote to trying to get anyone lynched he could then?

That is the only other reason for voting.Thats why I vote for claims, unless I am sure someone is scum.

This is D1 there are a few I think are scum but not 100% sure yet. getting close.

And your assesment of Chaps voting so far points to him badly wanting to get out of D1. Why be so anxious to go to N1? only one reasonable explaination to me. trying hard to give him enough rope.

@NG1 yes I saw it but I figured if he could ignore the question for long enough to try and come up with an explanation,I could ignore the answer for a while.

Fastposted by Chap,this should explain to you my thoughts chap.

[chapcrap]

I'm not sure what you're hoping to explain to me. You didn't explain anything. Instead, you tried to insinuate that I was voting to get people lynched so that Day 1 would be over quickly. When in fact, no one I voted was really close to being lynched and I already stated that Day 1 is for getting claims.

[DoomYoshi]

Top 3:

Safariguy, chap, everywhere, new guy.

Yes, the list has been listed before. I wouldn't be surprised if a few inactives were in there as well. None of them have taken on another full steam though (tbh, I haven't taken on many ppl head on today either)

However, chap is correct in saying that jgordon' coherency has dropped even lower. A few pages back, jgordon accused me with:

Ah fastposted by doom with the usual lynch jgordon routine, but at least your making some posts with valid points now.But I see the survivor is suicidal theory has fell by the wayside,going to go with someone elses idea now in the hopes it works it would seem. I have already responded to that one, I have already picked the side I would like to win. And no its not cheating,going against my role or any other idea you are trying to plant.
I forget is PMC's vote on me, hmmmm. Come up with a new tactic doom,you are closer to that noose every post.

For reference, here is the post I fast posted him with:

Even though I am on your top 3 list, I agree with it. However, chap and safari are both great players and I am not sure I want to take them on day 1. That seems like a lot of effort. I will let jak pick one and will follow along.

Any player who still thinks jgordon is helping will join my blacklist along with jgordon. This is ludicrous.

@pmc: you are correct, it was very lazy. However, you took the day 1 case yourself, and I thank you for it.

I will Vote chapcrap, for some added pressure.

[chapcrap]

I'm not sure what you're hoping to explain to me. You didn't explain anything. Instead, you tried to insinuate that I was voting to get people lynched so that Day 1 would be over quickly. When in fact, no one I voted was really close to being lynched and I already stated that Day 1 is for getting claims.

EBWOP: I'm not responding to jgordon anymore unless he makes coherent arguments. So, jgordon, if you feel like I'm slimming and not responding to you, It's because I don't have an intepreter.

FASTPOSTED by Doom.

[pmchugh]

jak, I was being sarcastic in my response that you quoted. I wasn't saying my logic was faulty. Also, I wasn't making a personal attack when I said it wasn't dumb all the time. That wasn't meant to be anything against you. I do compliment you for spelling douche correctly though. Most people don't. However, I wasn't being a douche to dazza at all. Are you trying to defend his response once he got called out? Ragian called him out and he immediately gave a crappy response. That's not being mean. that's the truth.

Ok, jgordon, you're the only one who thinks what you're saying makes sense. I already gave reasons for voting. When I told you to grow a brain, it may have been personal. You just keep asking me to answer things that I just answered.

\OMG you are making me rage lol. Yes I have a question:

Have you, or have you not been voting people for no reason other than to get them to claim?

p.s. it doesn't strictly matter if you voted clever or not, you still supported his BW. Note that you explained your reasoning for jgordon even though you never voted for him either. I explained this in my initial case against you.

Sorry for making you rage. That reminds me of a funny quote from a baseball player. I'll see if I can find a youtube video...

show: Rage Video

Anyway, this seems to be the only reasonable response to my defense. The answer is, I have not been voting solely to get people to claim. However, that is a large part of my motivation on Day 1. The vote on Doom was the closest to doing it solely to get a claim, because I didn't think there was that much going on there. I'd say 80% to get him to claim/respond/scumslip, 8% for the actual case on him, and 12% for reactions and other votes. Of course, those percentages are rough estimates, I did not doing any research to get those results.

Did it honestly take you like 20 pages and 209 posts to work out that was what I was saying? To me it seemed like you were doing it entirely to get a claim. Although I am still not convinced that you did otherwise as you specifically argued against the case on him as I pointed out. I still think you are a decent place to have my vote because of this and your unwillingness to answer my points (that was like pulling teeth) but I am gonna hush for a bit as I am getting tired of hearing my own voice.

What are other peoples opinions on this? What are other peoples opinions on the accusations made against newguy as well, he seems to be a popular choice in peoples lists.

[safariguy5]

Psh, I'm seeing my name in a lot of people's lists. I've said already that I don't see a consistent pattern of bandwagonning in chapcrap's votes, which is why I'm not joining the bandwagon. People seem to be think that 2 claims are not enough, but I remind everyone that claims are not all the same. If we had 2 VT claims then that might not be enough, but we have a doc claim. The risk/reward calculation for me is that the potential for uncovering another power role outweighs the potential benefit to getting another claim. Therefore, with the several leads that we already have, I'm willing to pursue them on Day 2 given that we expect we'll have a certain amount of information by then.

If you don't agree with my stance, then by all means, do what you think is right. I just find it funny that I'm Doom's "top" choice, yet he votes for chap.

[jgordon1111]

Top 3:

Safariguy, chap, everywhere, new guy.

Yes, the list has been listed before. I wouldn't be surprised if a few inactives were in there as well. None of them have taken on another full steam though (tbh, I haven't taken on many ppl head on today either)

However, chap is correct in saying that jgordon' coherency has dropped even lower. A few pages back, jgordon accused me with:

Ah fastposted by doom with the usual lynch jgordon routine, but at least your making some posts with valid points now.But I see the survivor is suicidal theory has fell by the wayside,going to go with someone elses idea now in the hopes it works it would seem. I have already responded to that one, I have already picked the side I would like to win. And no its not cheating,going against my role or any other idea you are trying to plant.
I forget is PMC's vote on me, hmmmm. Come up with a new tactic doom,you are closer to that noose every post.

For reference, here is the post I fast posted him with:

Even though I am on your top 3 list, I agree with it. However, chap and safari are both great players and I am not sure I want to take them on day 1. That seems like a lot of effort. I will let jak pick one and will follow along.

Any player who still thinks jgordon is helping will join my blacklist along with jgordon. This is ludicrous.

@pmc: you are correct, it was very lazy. However, you took the day 1 case yourself, and I thank you for it.

I will Vote chapcrap, for some added pressure.

I stand corrected Doom it was not you I was wanting to point out,Sorry just had you on my mind at that moment. It was not you that time,my apologies. Had to go back and make sure though.

[/]

Like I was saying before, I know the reason softclaiming abilities in such a manner hurts town and helps scum, since the topic has been revived and it would no longer pertain to anyone's motives that need to be answered for, I believe I should state it.

Scenario A, let's say a player is the actual town doc, they say something like "who I protect is my business" or whatever to hint at their role.
For the sake or argument, let's just say in this fictitious game 1/2 of the players are people who will never pick up at subtly, and the other half get it outright, given a typical ratio, one half of town knows, one half of scum knows, if even one scum knows, all scum will know by night one, and the one half of town will be ignorant, obviously better to just outright state it or say nothing.

Scenario B, This player in question is Scum, he makes a similar statement "I know who isn't getting protection tonight" or whatever.
as scum they have nothing to fear from scum, and in certain themes (like this one) one can be fairly sure 3rd party serial killers aren't abound, we will use the same statistics, 1/2 of town catches on, if the cop is one they can say to themselves "oh the doc, no use following that up", the town majority thinks "oh the doc, we shouldn't' pressure him", the actual doc think "hmm, should I out myself to hit scum day one or not? Could they be a doc too?"

B.1 Let's say "yes, I should counterclaim" thinks the doc, "Hey man, you aren't the doc, I am!" says the doc. The scum replies with plenty of vague wiggle room, "I never claimed to be the doc idiot, I said 'protect', I'm the bodyguard, nice job outing us both!" the scum lives on and the doc is outed

B.2 Doc thinks "I'm not sure yet" and the scum lives on with all the benefits.


And that's why soft claiming as the doc is not a good town maneuver, and soft claiming as scum is empowering.
I'm sure there are exceptions, but that's the basics for day one when no one knows what will been done yet.

[jak111]

Like I've said, I dropped minor hints that quite a few never picked up on until I was forced to say "GO BACK AND LOOK WHAT I WAS SOFT CLAIMING" oh yea.. everyone forgot the FOS's and vote's starting to pile up. More FOS's than votes, but if I didn't say anything you could tell by how everyone was talking that that'd change.

So I don't think anyone picked up except one or two that I was even so much as soft claiming until I said I was. So this argument can be dropped, you all chose to pressure me into it, and I wouldn't have even fully claimed if Doom didn't say a single word about it. If you're looking for more to the story there is none, I tried teeth and nails to keep myself hidden but nope, you all started compiling 'cases' and FOS's out of thin air. What did you expect the outcome to be? "Oh yea, I'm VT" <.< Mind you that would've been a smarter thing to do, but of course then it'd be "Let's lynch a VT, they're useless" And if I claimed after that it'd be "Why are you switching your claim? Trying to seem important?"

Anyone who tries to deny that that's pretty much the EXACT scenario that would've went down, I'd advise you to go back and check how everyone was posting toward my aggressiveness at the start of the day.

And furthermore, anyone who tries to put me how they'd play the role, they'd be wrong. This is my first time doc, I'm usually nothing special in the games so I'm more used to an aggressive role.

Though I admire the courage of it all, I do got to say all this WIFOM against me is horrible. Basically if I sum up all your arguments it can be put in the forms of "if..." "and..." "but...." "perhaps..." etc. Though what makes me want to pick you guys apart is the fact that we 2-3 days left and you're still focusing on my case rather than anything else. Believe me, tomorrow you don't have to worry about a case on me or complain about my posts because I'll be dead for trying to do what I thought was right at that place and that time. Plus with the emotional factors that were happening around the time didn't help with logic.

Anything else? Or are we safe to move on and make the only day I got to help you guys figure something out worth while?

[everywhere116]

Like I was saying before, I know the reason softclaiming abilities in such a manner hurts town and helps scum, since the topic has been revived and it would no longer pertain to anyone's motives that need to be answered for, I believe I should state it.

Scenario A, let's say a player is the actual town doc, they say something like "who I protect is my business" or whatever to hint at their role.
For the sake or argument, let's just say in this fictitious game 1/2 of the players are people who will never pick up at subtly, and the other half get it outright, given a typical ratio, one half of town knows, one half of scum knows, if even one scum knows, all scum will know by night one, and the one half of town will be ignorant, obviously better to just outright state it or say nothing.

Scenario B, This player in question is Scum, he makes a similar statement "I know who isn't getting protection tonight" or whatever.
as scum they have nothing to fear from scum, and in certain themes (like this one) one can be fairly sure 3rd party serial killers aren't abound, we will use the same statistics, 1/2 of town catches on, if the cop is one they can say to themselves "oh the doc, no use following that up", the town majority thinks "oh the doc, we shouldn't' pressure him", the actual doc think "hmm, should I out myself to hit scum day one or not? Could they be a doc too?"

B.1 Let's say "yes, I should counterclaim" thinks the doc, "Hey man, you aren't the doc, I am!" says the doc. The scum replies with plenty of vague wiggle room, "I never claimed to be the doc idiot, I said 'protect', I'm the bodyguard, nice job outing us both!" the scum lives on and the doc is outed

B.2 Doc thinks "I'm not sure yet" and the scum lives on with all the benefits.


And that's why soft claiming as the doc is not a good town maneuver, and soft claiming as scum is empowering.
I'm sure there are exceptions, but that's the basics for day one when no one knows what will been done yet.

Well, this pretty much blows out of the water my only reason for thinking that Doom was acting scummy. Seems like outing jak at this point was the smart move.

[thechuck51]

Like I was saying before, I know the reason softclaiming abilities in such a manner hurts town and helps scum, since the topic has been revived and it would no longer pertain to anyone's motives that need to be answered for, I believe I should state it.

Scenario A, let's say a player is the actual town doc, they say something like "who I protect is my business" or whatever to hint at their role.
For the sake or argument, let's just say in this fictitious game 1/2 of the players are people who will never pick up at subtly, and the other half get it outright, given a typical ratio, one half of town knows, one half of scum knows, if even one scum knows, all scum will know by night one, and the one half of town will be ignorant, obviously better to just outright state it or say nothing.

Scenario B, This player in question is Scum, he makes a similar statement "I know who isn't getting protection tonight" or whatever.
as scum they have nothing to fear from scum, and in certain themes (like this one) one can be fairly sure 3rd party serial killers aren't abound, we will use the same statistics, 1/2 of town catches on, if the cop is one they can say to themselves "oh the doc, no use following that up", the town majority thinks "oh the doc, we shouldn't' pressure him", the actual doc think "hmm, should I out myself to hit scum day one or not? Could they be a doc too?"

B.1 Let's say "yes, I should counterclaim" thinks the doc, "Hey man, you aren't the doc, I am!" says the doc. The scum replies with plenty of vague wiggle room, "I never claimed to be the doc idiot, I said 'protect', I'm the bodyguard, nice job outing us both!" the scum lives on and the doc is outed

B.2 Doc thinks "I'm not sure yet" and the scum lives on with all the benefits.


And that's why soft claiming as the doc is not a good town maneuver, and soft claiming as scum is empowering.
I'm sure there are exceptions, but that's the basics for day one when no one knows what will been done yet.

Well put. I agree 100%

[thechuck51]

YES! So do you still doubt him doom? Cause if you do, and nobody counter claims him, I must say that is grounds enough to earn my vote. Least give someone time to counter claim him if you wish to vote him.

Looks to me like NewGuy was rooting for option B.1

[Rodion]

Boy, you guys surely post a lot here!

I plan to read everything since my last post and make a "catch up" post today.

[jak111]

YES! So do you still doubt him doom? Cause if you do, and nobody counter claims him, I must say that is grounds enough to earn my vote. Least give someone time to counter claim him if you wish to vote him.

Looks to me like NewGuy was rooting for option B.1

Looks to me like directly after my post people are continuing with this WIFOM case.
Congrats, you earns honorary title of SKIMMER

[new guy1]

YES! So do you still doubt him doom? Cause if you do, and nobody counter claims him, I must say that is grounds enough to earn my vote. Least give someone time to counter claim him if you wish to vote him.

Looks to me like NewGuy was rooting for option B.1

Looks to me like directly after my post people are continuing with this WIFOM case.
Congrats, you earns honorary title of SKIMMER

I wasnt rooting for option B, I was saying if someone was going to vote him then I say they need a counterclaim (dont claim doc if it is not jak). Im saying you dont lynch the claimed doc without there being a counterclaim.

[jak111]

YES! So do you still doubt him doom? Cause if you do, and nobody counter claims him, I must say that is grounds enough to earn my vote. Least give someone time to counter claim him if you wish to vote him.

Looks to me like NewGuy was rooting for option B.1

Looks to me like directly after my post people are continuing with this WIFOM case.
Congrats, you earns honorary title of SKIMMER

I wasnt rooting for option B, I was saying if someone was going to vote him then I say they need a counterclaim (dont claim doc if it is not jak). Im saying you dont lynch the claimed doc without there being a counterclaim.

But you see, they're going to continue with this WIFOM because they know they won't get a counter claim when I'm not one of them.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

Like I was saying before, I know the reason softclaiming abilities in such a manner hurts town and helps scum, since the topic has been revived and it would no longer pertain to anyone's motives that need to be answered for, I believe I should state it.

Scenario A, let's say a player is the actual town doc, they say something like "who I protect is my business" or whatever to hint at their role.
For the sake or argument, let's just say in this fictitious game 1/2 of the players are people who will never pick up at subtly, and the other half get it outright, given a typical ratio, one half of town knows, one half of scum knows, if even one scum knows, all scum will know by night one, and the one half of town will be ignorant, obviously better to just outright state it or say nothing.

Scenario B, This player in question is Scum, he makes a similar statement "I know who isn't getting protection tonight" or whatever.
as scum they have nothing to fear from scum, and in certain themes (like this one) one can be fairly sure 3rd party serial killers aren't abound, we will use the same statistics, 1/2 of town catches on, if the cop is one they can say to themselves "oh the doc, no use following that up", the town majority thinks "oh the doc, we shouldn't' pressure him", the actual doc think "hmm, should I out myself to hit scum day one or not? Could they be a doc too?"

B.1 Let's say "yes, I should counterclaim" thinks the doc, "Hey man, you aren't the doc, I am!" says the doc. The scum replies with plenty of vague wiggle room, "I never claimed to be the doc idiot, I said 'protect', I'm the bodyguard, nice job outing us both!" the scum lives on and the doc is outed

B.2 Doc thinks "I'm not sure yet" and the scum lives on with all the benefits.


And that's why soft claiming as the doc is not a good town maneuver, and soft claiming as scum is empowering.
I'm sure there are exceptions, but that's the basics for day one when no one knows what will been done yet.

Well, this pretty much blows out of the water my only reason for thinking that Doom was acting scummy. Seems like outing jak at this point was the smart move.

OMG seriously guys i said this a freaking week ago and everyone went over it lol im glad someone restated it

[jak111]

~Waits for my post on the last page to stop being skimmed before I bother trying to defend myself at all anymore~

-.- See, now people wonder why I don't want to use my power tonight. Because I don't see many really worthy of it. If you don't want to bother even listening to my defense why should I make one and why should I defend someone who skims over it?

[ghostly447]

I will get a vote count done tomorrow morning guys. My apologies, got busy again today.