Wait, What? Mafia (9/9) D2: Wait, What?

[Anarkistsdream]

"I am Spiesr, a member of the Town Night Investigation Unit."

^^

-> "Member" and "Unit"
-> This could mean theres more than on in this team
-> This coupled with a day investigator (that I cant find a good reason to think they would be scum - theres no good motive for ousting him, the less solid info the better for scum right?) means town have some very powerful PRs
-> Makes me think to balance this scum are also going to be very powerful
-> ???

I do not know of any other player's roles or anything like that. Town Night Investigation Unit is my role name. As you could probably deduce from that it is an investigative role, but not a straight cop.

anyone any ideas on what kind of cop?

Why does it matter??? EVERYONE knows he is town... The only reason to continue this sort of questioning is to give more info to the mafia... I swear to God if people keep pushing for more info about Spiesr or his affiliation with OBVIOUS TOWN alliances, I will just start voting those people.

We KNOW he is town, we KNOW he is a cop... Can we please move on and try and find scum, please?

[virus90]

yeah i know he is town, was just curious for what kind of cop he could be or what cops are usual. only my second game and my bible is
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Cop for all kinds of roles. Spiesr was hinting some kind of special cop and the list provided on that website did not make things clearer for me so thought just ask.
But wont ask again if it helps mafia.
Better keep my enthusiasm down apparently

[jonty125]

so unvote

[Anarkistsdream]

yeah i know he is town, was just curious for what kind of cop he could be or what cops are usual. only my second game and my bible is
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Cop for all kinds of roles. Spiesr was hinting some kind of special cop and the list provided on that website did not make things clearer for me so thought just ask.
But wont ask again if it helps mafia.
Better keep my enthusiasm down apparently

No no... Enthusiasm is WONDERFUL! Just judge what information you are asking for and who actually benefits from knowing. At the end of the game, we will all know everything about every role... But giving that info to anti-town at this point would be disastrous...

Also, I dare say half of the mafia games I have played in, someone has had a role that is NOT on mafiascum... Do not assume that those are the only roles we are going to see... In fact, most of the great game creators here (myself included ) make it a point to create new roles...

[Anarkistsdream]

yeah i know he is town, was just curious for what kind of cop he could be or what cops are usual. only my second game and my bible is
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Cop for all kinds of roles. Spiesr was hinting some kind of special cop and the list provided on that website did not make things clearer for me so thought just ask.
But wont ask again if it helps mafia.
Better keep my enthusiasm down apparently

Also, I just realized your native language is Dutch... Your English is amazing! And I will be more aware of the language barrier from here on out.

[virus90]

thx
should not be to much of a language barrier, my PC automatically gives these nice red wobbly lines under for instance wobly, which then suggests it should be wobbly. Besides, most of my study books are in English and we start learning English at the age of 10 and got my IB near native speaker in high school. So it should be pretty decent.
The hardest part is to express or read the tone in a message, these have cultural aspects as well and i guess that is a thing which is hard to teach. Same applies to sayings and proverbs.

I did indeed notice some roles missing or incomplete on mafiascum, it is however a good place to get started. Mafiascum and google are close friends of mine.

And well about the asking your probably right, i knew 1 someone who could benefit from it, that would be me. But might be in our best interest if the scum doesn't know indeed.

I do however get the feeling that there is more information out there, it has been hinted by some. I think we will learn a lot after night 1. question is, who survives to see another day.

[kratos644]

My suspicion is still on Lootifer and until I get a decent explanation I'm going to have to say Vote Lootifer Kind of ironic that he was originally my joke vote and now I'm right back where I started

[Lootifer]

My suspicion is still on Lootifer and until I get a decent explanation I'm going to have to say Vote Lootifer Kind of ironic that he was originally my joke vote and now I'm right back where I started

Fair enough, i am going to address Nark, and hopefully that will answer your questions too.

[JamesKer1]

Will get a VC in a bit.

Virus, I can only think of two types of roles in this game that are exactly as listed in mafia scum. Don't expect any role to be conformed to any sort of guidelines, however, many will be close to others. I love to put my own spin on things

[Lootifer]

I agree... The more townies that pop their little heads up, saying "I have info that will only make me a target for mafia," the quicker this game goes to scum...

We already have to worry about taking care of Spiesr now, so, whoever we have with protective roles, keep your eyes on the Spies-r (Like my pun?)

Now, what makes this investigative role- that outed Spiesr- different from most anything I have seen is that the info goes to EVERYONE in the game... Most of the time, you get your answer and keep moving. However, making it a worldwide message is really bad. If this is a townie doing this, you had better be VERY careful, because otherwise you are just screwing us and letting mafia know who the power roles are. If it is scum, you must ALSO be careful because, whoever you out as town will have the rest of the town to take care of them- Docs, roleblockers, etc.

All that said, I will FOS Lootifer for now for the odd request to have people admit to having power role-type knowledge

We, the town, are the ignorant majority; compared to scum, the informed minority.

What if, in this case, the information was regarding how the game is structured? Or knowledge about scum roles? Or something similar? Information disclosure can most certainly be pro-town in some circumstances, especially when its information scum have, and town do not. Sure it may paint a target on the persons head who is releasing the information, but I dont see a rule anywhere that says only PR's get to have supplementary information.

In fact, combining the fact that you are both experienced and reasonably smart, its odd that you would only mention the negative side of information disclosure, a little scummy? Not sure.

[Anarkistsdream]

I agree... The more townies that pop their little heads up, saying "I have info that will only make me a target for mafia," the quicker this game goes to scum...

We already have to worry about taking care of Spiesr now, so, whoever we have with protective roles, keep your eyes on the Spies-r (Like my pun?)

Now, what makes this investigative role- that outed Spiesr- different from most anything I have seen is that the info goes to EVERYONE in the game... Most of the time, you get your answer and keep moving. However, making it a worldwide message is really bad. If this is a townie doing this, you had better be VERY careful, because otherwise you are just screwing us and letting mafia know who the power roles are. If it is scum, you must ALSO be careful because, whoever you out as town will have the rest of the town to take care of them- Docs, roleblockers, etc.

All that said, I will FOS Lootifer for now for the odd request to have people admit to having power role-type knowledge

We, the town, are the ignorant majority; compared to scum, the informed minority.

I agree

What if, in this case, the information was regarding how the game is structured? Or knowledge about scum roles? Or something similar? Information disclosure can most certainly be pro-town in some circumstances, especially when its information scum have, and town do not. Sure it may paint a target on the persons head who is releasing the information, but I dont see a rule anywhere that says only PR's get to have supplementary information.

Somehow, I am doubting that there is a Vanilla Townie in this game... James wanted this game to be fun, and Vanilla Townies never get that level of "fun" that other roles get. As for painting a target on people's heads, it not only affects the person who speaks, but also the person/people that it is about.

In fact, combining the fact that you are both experienced and reasonably smart, its odd that you would only mention the negative side of information disclosure, a little scummy? Not sure.

Hey, nobody said I was smart!! However, why only mention the negative??? IT IS DAY ONE! This is the BEST time for the mafia to gain information or the upper hand, because all they have to do is sit back and watch townies stumble over themselves figuring out who else may be town. If I were scum, I would post rarely day one and watch what everyone is doing. You already know who your partners are, so all you have to figure out is which townies have what powers. By asking people to stick their head out and ask, you are giving perfect targets to mafia. On the first day, a roleclaim or even claim of knowledge is ignorant, and I doubt you can find one game in our archives where a REAL claim (not a fake mafia made one) influenced the game in a positive way.

OK, so, now for more rambling that may be nearly identical to what I put in your quote:
The only thing that allows town to win is that the mafia are in the dark about who does what and there are more town than scum... We know now that Spiesr will need protection in the night. And, according to the role name and several people's assumptions (which I agree with) there is more than one investigative role... We DON'T want to know who else is right now. That just gives more and more chances for them to get picked off... Unless we have more protective roles than either aggressive or investigative roles, which I doubt, the scum will be able to start knocking off cops... How is that going to end up being good or helpful to town?

This also assumes we have no third-party killers or cults, who have no issue with either side winning. So, say we DO have a cult recruiter... He knows he can now safely induct Spiesr and Spiesr will most likely not be investigated or forced to reveal his role again...

So, by all means, explain to us how ANY knowledge on Day 1 does the town more good than ill. I respect that you are using your old noggin and coming up with ideas... (I get sick of playing games with a bunch of one liner players) However, let's make sure that we protect town first, and find out information second.

With that said, I revoke my FOS, because I think you really just have a different viewpoint of how information will be used. And I respect different viewpoints.

[epic pie]

A quick reason that knowing any information in D1 is that the town will not accidentally lynch a pro-town power role. Now, this is refutable by the Mafia knowing that the town has a power role, and therefore a target.

I basically summed up what you said into a TL;DR

[kratos644]

Unvote With only 9 players it is very likely we have a small mafia. If we have a protective role we can play a little follow the cop with spiesr since he has already been confirmed as our cop. This of course assumes 2 things. 1 being that we have a protective role and 2 being that mafia doesn't have a strongman. If this is the case, it would be a viable option to no lynch today. Obviously I'm not suggesting we do this right this minute because there is a lot of day left but just throwing that out there.

[JamesKer1]

Day 1 Vote Count 2:

jonty125 (1): spiesr

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline set at Nov. 19th, 19:00 CC time (7 PM)

Actions of the day:

___?___ revealed Spiesr as Town NIU

[Anarkistsdream]

A quick reason that knowing any information in D1 is that the town will not accidentally lynch a pro-town power role. Now, this is refutable by the Mafia knowing that the town has a power role, and therefore a target.

I basically summed up what you said into a TL;DR

No, you certainly didn't sum up my points, unless you yourself skimmed my post. The way you don't lynch a townie is a claim at lynch -1 or -2... Don't ask for the info first, wait until it is close to a lynch and BEFORE hammering, the possible lynchee can talk about their role...

Hey guys, why don't we all just start the game listing are roles? That is what you two are saying...

[Lootifer]

I was not suggesting we mass claim or anything like that. But I have made my case and I'll leave it at that for now.

I would be ok with a no lynch.

[gregwolf121]

well, i think its too early to talk about a no lynch, we have 5 days to gather information and to get some reads on people, so far nothing has really stood out to me. basically i'm just saying that we shouldn't end this day early.

[kratos644]

well, i think its too early to talk about a no lynch, we have 5 days to gather information and to get some reads on people, so far nothing has really stood out to me. basically i'm just saying that we shouldn't end this day early.

Agreed. When I threw a no lynch out I didn't mean I wanted it immediately. I was just throwing it out as a viable option to end the day instead of a random lynch.

[Anarkistsdream]

well, i think its too early to talk about a no lynch, we have 5 days to gather information and to get some reads on people, so far nothing has really stood out to me. basically i'm just saying that we shouldn't end this day early.

Hey, dude. Hope I make a better impression on you this game.

In any case, I totally agree with your statement.

[gregwolf121]

well, i think its too early to talk about a no lynch, we have 5 days to gather information and to get some reads on people, so far nothing has really stood out to me. basically i'm just saying that we shouldn't end this day early.

Hey, dude. Hope I make a better impression on you this game.

In any case, I totally agree with your statement.

hmmm i don't remember any games where i had a bad impression of you

[jonty125]

Well...that screams Mafia Day Cop to me.

Why does it scream, mafia day cop to you?

[epic pie]

No, you certainly didn't sum up my points, unless you yourself skimmed my post.

I summed up what I felt the most important, and the main points.
I agree with everything else you said in your post in reply to me, except roleclaims. I don't understand why roleclaiming is a viable option; people lie. A lot in Mafia.


Kratos, how would you define a "small" mafia? Two? Three?

[kratos644]

No, you certainly didn't sum up my points, unless you yourself skimmed my post.

I summed up what I felt the most important, and the main points.
I agree with everything else you said in your post in reply to me, except roleclaims. I don't understand why roleclaiming is a viable option; people lie. A lot in Mafia.


Kratos, how would you define a "small" mafia? Two? Three?

Three seems like too many. I'd say 2.

[Anarkistsdream]

The setup may be a little weird at first, but I promise it is balanced.

Let's remember this quote and not make too many certainties...

[JamesKer1]

Prods and a VC will be coming out in less than an hour (I'll just edit this post if no one posts after). Post something related to the game, not just to get out of a prod, if you would like...

Game seems to be slowing down, I don't think there are more than three votes..? Hopefully Day Two will be a whole lot faster