The Village of Secrets [GAME OVER] Werewolves Win!

[jonty125]

The bodged post

Well done sir...well done.

vote jonty

Believe it or not it was because I had one curly bracket } instead of a square bracket ]

[Lootifer]

The thing is anyone who has played with Nark knows he is prone to this kind of behavior. The question we must ask ourselves is is this particular case of over-reaction different than his usual flavor? His meta of over-reacting is a convenient one.

The one town-nark rage I have seen in a game I was playing (which always gets read better than when im trying to research) he was very introspective. A strong theme of "dude I never roll scum". The example we see in this thread is markedly different; openly attacking two players at with personal insults (which I have no problem with, this is sparta mafia). Seems to be aggressive without the defensive aspect I would expect. FoS Nark.

Having said that: X-stor... I don't see why you guys are letting him off so easily. Does he honestly sound like a noob to you? No he does not.

Why then did he not do the natural thing and correct Nark when nark called him a noob?

Xstor apparently thinks his way is the only correct way, even though he is still a noobie around here...

vote xstor

I expect more from you. As far as my play, i will continue to push in a manner and state my opinion. If you have issue with it, then make a case on it. Simply responding with a 1 liner to generalize and insult stands as poor taste to me, and in fact i would even go as far to say that does make you look scummy.

That's a very controlled reaction. Nothing natural about it. Too controlled for my liking.

vote X-Stor-X

[StorrZerg]

The thing is anyone who has played with Nark knows he is prone to this kind of behavior. The question we must ask ourselves is is this particular case of over-reaction different than his usual flavor? His meta of over-reacting is a convenient one.

The one town-nark rage I have seen in a game I was playing (which always gets read better than when im trying to research) he was very introspective. A strong theme of "dude I never roll scum". The example we see in this thread is markedly different; openly attacking two players at with personal insults (which I have no problem with, this is sparta mafia). Seems to be aggressive without the defensive aspect I would expect. FoS Nark.

Having said that: X-stor... I don't see why you guys are letting him off so easily. Does he honestly sound like a noob to you? No he does not.

Why then did he not do the natural thing and correct Nark when nark called him a noob?

Xstor apparently thinks his way is the only correct way, even though he is still a noobie around here...

vote xstor

I expect more from you. As far as my play, i will continue to push in a manner and state my opinion. If you have issue with it, then make a case on it. Simply responding with a 1 liner to generalize and insult stands as poor taste to me, and in fact i would even go as far to say that does make you look scummy.

That's a very controlled reaction. Nothing natural about it. Too controlled for my liking.

vote X-Stor-X

You miss read. He did not call be a noobie player. He said i was still "noobie around here" Which is very correct. Why would i correct that?
(you could say my join date says other wise, but the 6+ years of inactivity between then and now speaks louder) + i've only played one game on this forum. (since you seem to be uninformed)

Lootifer, take a read at the previous game i was in (still on going breaking bad) Maybe it helps you with your read on myself. Besides that have any other questions for me?

[jak111]

The way the town win condition is worded doesn't leave much doubt that there is at least one third party. By the way you say you think there are only two parties, that leads me to believe you are third party or scum. So I will vote kgb007

Could be wrong but I'm pretty sure kgb was referring to more than two NON-TOWN factions in response to jak's theory that there are "possibly 3 factions against town."

Someone else brought up that there are two enemy parties with the quote (from wherever it was) so I read the sentence and pointed out that it could possibly be 3.

My original case against Anark was small Jonty, read all of my posts. I explain that I would of easily taken it off if it was not for Anark's reaction, and my crummy case turned out into a good lead for a Day 1 with no info.

[Whatsausage]

The thing is anyone who has played with Nark knows he is prone to this kind of behavior. The question we must ask ourselves is is this particular case of over-reaction different than his usual flavor? His meta of over-reacting is a convenient one.

The one town-nark rage I have seen in a game I was playing (which always gets read better than when im trying to research) he was very introspective. A strong theme of "dude I never roll scum". The example we see in this thread is markedly different; openly attacking two players at with personal insults (which I have no problem with, this is sparta mafia). Seems to be aggressive without the defensive aspect I would expect. FoS Nark.

Having said that: X-stor... I don't see why you guys are letting him off so easily. Does he honestly sound like a noob to you? No he does not.

Why then did he not do the natural thing and correct Nark when nark called him a noob?

Xstor apparently thinks his way is the only correct way, even though he is still a noobie around here...

vote xstor

I expect more from you. As far as my play, i will continue to push in a manner and state my opinion. If you have issue with it, then make a case on it. Simply responding with a 1 liner to generalize and insult stands as poor taste to me, and in fact i would even go as far to say that does make you look scummy.

That's a very controlled reaction. Nothing natural about it. Too controlled for my liking.

vote X-Stor-X

I know it is Day 1, but I think you are making mountains out of molehills. You are making cases against people for both having reactions and not having reactions. Seems like you are accusing xstor of doing something similar to...

Now don't get jittery, Luke. There are a lot of command ships. Keep your distance, though, Chewie, but don't look like you're trying to keeping your distance.
I don't know. Fly casual.

And of course they were guilty in that case, so you do bring up a valid point. However, I don't believe it is scummy to control your reactions. Especially after someone is getting targeted for "over-reacting". Controlled reactions is just how one has to play mafia imo...

[Whatsausage]

Besides that have any other questions for me?

Since you have asked that more than once, I have one. What is your read on yourself so far?

[kgb007]

Correct mud, I doubt there are 2 (multiple players-non town) factions against town, I've usually played with a SK, only 15 players and I didn't interpret opening scene as had been previously stated

[spiesr]

Having said that: X-stor... I don't see why you guys are letting him off so easily. Does he honestly sound like a noob to you? No he does not.

No, he sounds like what I am going to call a foreigner, someone with mafia experience outside of CC.

Why then did he not do the natural thing and correct Nark when nark called him a noob?

show

That's a very controlled reaction. Nothing natural about it. Too controlled for my liking.

Accordingly you need to pay attention to the "around here" with which Anarkist qualified his statement.

[StorrZerg]

Case against Jonty. With the explosive early post by Jonty i knew something was up.

Con125firm!!

Obligatory joke votes vote X-Stor-X to make him rage, due to his dislike of the jokevote stage

Now, unvote, vote Nark to make him rage, due to his dislike of votes.

Oh wait, it's not over yet unvote, vote jak because he said let's kill nark for his dislike of votes (which will make him rage because I intentionally skimmed). and now the jokevote stage is over unvote

The Serious Part
So once again, X-Stor-X, starts off with his dislike of the jokevote stage, which personally I'm a great fan of, but hey-ho one man's poison is another man's pudding. And the jokevote stage continues, which includes but was no limited to [sarcasm]a bit of playground bullying as we all voted X-Stor-X due to his dislike of the jokevote stage[/sarcasm] and MudPuppy getting confused by this new fangled vote system (which I believe I understand just in case I'd confused anyone).

THEN!!! Things get serious, with jak's awful case on Nark. He has three reasons cited for voting Nark. Numero uno. 1. He's the last to continue the BW, and that makes him scummy because ... everyone's found a new joke in the jokevote stage and he was the last with the old one.
Point secondus, he sheeps everybody's else's' reasons, jak you openly admit your vote is the first serious vote of the game so how can you judge a vote that is not serious
And lastly, the Nark is time wasting and/or pushing for the lynch, well firstly I'd argue you can't be doing both of them on D1 joke case but meh, that's a moot point. Once again, we're back to this been a joke vote so if X-Stor-X was in a L-2 position based on this claim alone he who asked him to claim, should be made to claim himself. And this all rounded off with a very much WIFOM argument, that Nark is trying to push for a mislynch, deliberately (which as scum, probably would be a good idea). But the final statement i.e. Nark is scummy, I feel is very much based off the assumption Nark is scum.

Now, if I'd arrived, at this point in the game I would of voted jak without a second thought for his hideous case, but Nark's response, is well, less than flattering, it's very much an angry shout, at jak. Now, here is the thing that makes me hesitate on voting either of these two candidates. Is Nark's reaction justified? Has he over-reacted, jury's out on that one I'm afraid, could he have reacted better, definitely yes, a nice little deconstruction of the argument like mine would of been very good Anyhow, later down the page, Nark continues flinging the insults at jak, rather than the case at hand, and Nark, by his own admission, claims to have played the game for six years, surely, with that much experience, he would of addressed the case at hand by now, rather than just raging at jak, but is this outside of Nark's meta, not really, I've known Nark to be a very agressive player, and this, I wouldn't say is too far astray. BACK TO REALITY (or back to life, you're slightly behind) jak says his vote stays on Nark for Nark's overreaction, which I say has a lot more justification than his original claim.

And lastly, Roger Dodger, which was a campaign a few years ago around here to not try and sneak on to buses, but aside. I don't know if he's been skimming or just plain newb. For now, I'm going to go with newb.

So where to cast my vote, jak, for his poor case on Nark, or Nark for his poor reaction on the poor case. vote jak this doesn't say Nark is blameless but I do believe that the origins of jak's case of Nark, are poor, and this does partially justify Nark's reaction.

EBWOP so the formatting works, that'll teach me to use the preview button, and also, a move in hindsight to make my final vote a bit clearer.

So i had the experience of playing with Jonty in my previous game. (he has yet flipped ) And just from that i know something has changed for him. I took a quick look at his posts in
Emotions Mafia (survives to end as VTown)
viewtopic.php?f=213&t=202851&sk=a&start=90
And A Cino Filled Mafia (2 time cop dies night 6)

In both these games we see similar opening. Joking a bit mixed with lots of down time. It takes several days for Jonty to "decided" on anything it seems.
(i would include the previous game on BB, still no idea what he is, but he did end up voting with a simple 1 liner for a reason and stayed quiet) The importance of him in BB and this game is the drastic change in behavior.
I am also backing this up with the 2 previous links. He is clearly Changed his play style, and is doing something DIFFERENT. With 2 previous games of flipping town, a VT and a Power role. Leads me to believe he is not playing his normal townie game. This i find Scummy.

Now we have his case, this is a scummy case coming from Jonty for a few reasons.
1. as touched before it is DIFFERENT than his normal play.
a. it is the longest case i've scene him make early on day 1.
b. it is the most in depth case i've read from him on day 1
2. He talks about 2 people, about how the actions have come how silly they are etc. And in the end it seems he is flipping a coin as to who he is voting. (how ever he does give slight reason for the difference that does look better for jonty)

Vote Jonty
fp

[StorrZerg]

EBWOP

seems like3 my Cino Filled mafia link did not go,
viewtopic.php?f=610&t=195164

[StorrZerg]

Besides that have any other questions for me?

Since you have asked that more than once, I have one. What is your read on yourself so far?

silly question
obviously im town

[spiesr]

My vote was a half joke vote/half I don't know what else to do with my vote since as you said, how else are you going to decide who to pressure first?

By someone doing something "serious" and others reacting to it. For example: X-Stor-X requested to end the joke vote phase. You responded by joining with others to turn on him for it. Subsequently I voted for you to observed your reaction to me doing so. Let's see what I got.

I think it's amazing anyone claims or gets lynched in these games, since it's apparently a crime to make the 3rd or 4th vote on someone. While yes, sometimes scum could bandwagon to get a quick lynch, I think often it's town who are just convinced by previous arguments on the person enough to want to see a claim. I mean isn't that the whole point of an argument is to convince other people to join you in voting that person? Sorry for the little rant, I'm just often afraid of voting for cases that I think have decent merit just because I know if I do that 2-3 times I'll get railroaded as a bandwagonner...

You start off with what I am going to characterise as an attempt to garner sympathy.

My vote was a half joke vote/half I don't know what else to do with my vote since as you said, how else are you going to decide who to pressure first? I did ask the question you were going to ask, and as I stated when I made the vote, he wanted pressure on someone, so I gave it to him. Since by his posts since then I'm guessing he is probably more likely town, I will unvote

Next you try to downplay the significance of your vote and retract it. In asking that particular question you seem to have missed what exactly happened when X-Stor-X requested an end to joke voting; it ended, albeit not everyone caught on at the same rate.

[Whatsausage]

Besides that have any other questions for me?

Since you have asked that more than once, I have one. What is your read on yourself so far?

silly question
obviously im town

Obviously

[Whatsausage]

Perhaps this is a better question for you x-stor-x, what separates Jonty talking about two people and Lootifer talking about two people? (I know this is just one of your points)

[StorrZerg]

Well i have not read much up on lootifer. besides that nothing has "stood out" yet for him. Atm its more of what i know of Jonty than what i know of Lootifer.
As for Lootifer, he is missing information. He has miss used information. Such can happen as any alignment. It comes down to how serious he is about his case, and how much he pushes. What i can say from his post, it does look as if he is scum hunting, searching for the enemy. (same could be said for jonty, how ever jonty has quite a different history with day 1 play style).

Jonty, i have played with before so i have some back story to him. His big post REALLY stood out as a HUGE difference in his last game. So i looked up some previous games, saw what he normally does when he is TOWN on day 1 both as VT and Role. And in both those games, he played very similar to the game i was in with him previously. (opening day 1 again).

For more back story, i was abrasive, i was rude, i was controlling in my previous game. Jonty stayed relatively passive in that game, and even jumped onto a vote that i pushed. So for him in this game to flip character strikes a cord with me.

[StorrZerg]

@whatsausage back to you, you have asked now can you tell?
what do you think of spiesr

[Lootifer]

Blergh (re: "around here").

unvote.

I still think you are being suspiciously controlled, but thats not particularly alignment indictitive.

[Whatsausage]

@whatsausage back to you, you have asked now can you tell?
what do you think of spiesr

An interesting question, as it appears he is playing his own game in "targeting" (using that term loosely) hotshot. Other than a couple posts about that he hasn't done much. So I don't have much of a read on him. I doubt he has a vendetta against hotshot, but I find it interesting that no one else has commented on hotshot except for him. Granted I haven't either, but I don't see much of a case there. It appears that spiesr was fishing for a reaction, and laid out what he got, with no input on it. And now I am doing the same about him it appears. (Laying it out, not fishing for a reaction.) So I don't see anything scummy with what spiesr has done so far.

I think the game is starting to slow down again. I think that means it is time to really apply pressure.

Coming into the game, my thought as this is my first game as town (Emotions is the only other game I have played here) that scum would have a similar mindset to mine in that game, of any lynch is a good lynch, so it is a good idea to make cases against as many people as possible. So the closest I have seen to that is probably jonty, with outing both jak and anark, without really trying to clear either. (Not to say scum hunting is bad, but this is the most fishy so far) so vote jonty to begin pressure raising

[superkeener]

Official Vote Count 1.2

Anarkistsdream (2): jak111, rishaed
HotShot53 (1): spiesr
Iron Butterfly (0):
jak111 (1): jonty125
Jmac1026 (0):
jonty125 (3): Iron Butterfly, X-Stor-X, Whatsausage
kgb007 (1): HotShot53
Lootifer (0):
MudPuppy (0):
rishaed (0):
Roger Dodger (0):
spiesr (0):
virus90 (0):
Whatsausage (1): Roger Dodger
X-Stor-X (1): Anarkistsdream

No Lynch (0):

Not Voting: virus90, Jmac1026, MudPuppy, kgb007, Lootifer,

With 15 alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch. If 8 votes are not reached by the deadline, then the first player with 6+ votes will be lynched.

Deadline for Day 1 is April 03, 2014.

[Roger Dodger]

unvote whatsausage

[Roger Dodger]

ok, i am trying to get back into the swing of things so, with that said, Out of everything i have read so far, this statement makes the most sense..

So i had the experience of playing with Jonty in my previous game. (he has yet flipped ) And just from that i know something has changed for him. I took a quick look at his posts in
Emotions Mafia (survives to end as VTown)
viewtopic.php?f=213&t=202851&sk=a&start=90
And A Cino Filled Mafia (2 time cop dies night 6)

In both these games we see similar opening. Joking a bit mixed with lots of down time. It takes several days for Jonty to "decided" on anything it seems.
(i would include the previous game on BB, still no idea what he is, but he did end up voting with a simple 1 liner for a reason and stayed quiet) The importance of him in BB and this game is the drastic change in behavior.
I am also backing this up with the 2 previous links. He is clearly Changed his play style, and is doing something DIFFERENT. With 2 previous games of flipping town, a VT and a Power role. Leads me to believe he is not playing his normal townie game. This i find Scummy.

Now we have his case, this is a scummy case coming from Jonty for a few reasons.
1. as touched before it is DIFFERENT than his normal play.
a. it is the longest case i've scene him make early on day 1.
b. it is the most in depth case i've read from him on day 1
2. He talks about 2 people, about how the actions have come how silly they are etc. And in the end it seems he is flipping a coin as to who he is voting. (how ever he does give slight reason for the difference that does look better for jonty )

I think when u change the way you play the game says a lot about what role you play. I have not played with Jonty and i could be wrong but, my gut is saying that this could be right.


VOTE JONTY

I am sticking to this until someone says different.

[MudPuppy]

That's a good observation on Jonty, X-stor-X. He wrote more in his 1 post (not counting the correction) here than he did in all of the Emotions game (short game). I think your case has merit... that said, I was certainly encouraging him to participate more in the Emotions game and I liked his first post in this game. I'm not sure I want to jump on a bandwagon started by a joke vote and followed by a meta scum read based on a single post. While I definitely agree with the difference in style witnessed here, I am hesitant to "reward" his decision to jump into the mix with pressure. For now, I'd rather note the change and encourage him to keep participating. I'm not ready to vote just yet... going to try to review a bit more in depth, hopefully tonight, and see if anything else pops out.

[jonty125]

I explain that I would of easily taken it off if it was not for Anark's reaction, and my crummy case turned out into a good lead for a Day 1 with no info.

Well we can't prove that, and I've seen this happen before, and making a poor case, deliberately, to gauge reaction, I can see how it benefits town, but also, it could be a cover-up, and, then we could end up with the saga, jak makes poor case, Nark/or anyone votes jak for the poor case, jak responds it was to test the waters, and see who bandwagoned. Personally, I am of the opinion say what you mean, and mean what you say, and the case was poor so I'm sticking to my guns, not that I'm going to last much longer here.


So now on, to the wagon on myself, first member IB, a jokevote I believe. And to quote Roger Dodger "nuff said".
Next, the case on X-Stor-X, the long and the short of it, this is against my meta, and to be honest, it is, and it isn't. I'll only say things when I've got an opinion and usually on D1/D2, I don't there isn't enough evidence, but this time there was, and I've been through all that. The other votes are agreeing/trusting in X-Stor-X. APART FROM, Whatsausage, who says I'm scummy for making two cases simultaneously, so if we use that logic X-Stor-X is scum PERIOD. (reference to the BB game).

The case against me is indefensible, I accept it as a case, and would claim at L-2.

[StorrZerg]

Would you mind linking a previous game where you went agro early game?

The last bit of your post bothers me "case against me is indefensible, if people wagon i'll claim"


You state this isn't against your meta. You imply you have done this before. I would assume the first thing one would do, would be to talk about a previous game where this happened.

[Jmac1026]

A lynch (or even a case) based completely on someone's meta is something I really could not support. Especially when the pseudo-meta is "he is posting way more than he normally does." That just seems ridiculous.