[Official] NBC Mafia Town Win MVP=trinicardinal

[Leitz]

To be honest, I have no idea! Day 2 has been dragging on for so long, we haven't really had any case besides Rodions and his (fake) claim has forced us to lynch somebody, while actually we're not certain of who to lynch to hammer..

[betiko]

To be honest, I have no idea! Day 2 has been dragging on for so long, we haven't really had any case besides Rodions and his (fake) claim has forced us to lynch somebody, while actually we're not certain of who to lynch to hammer..

interesting. what you are saying basically is that hammering is getting lynched?

[Rodion]

MOB, I have evidence that you were online yesterday (real time games), plus I see you posted in another game today.

How about you give more attention to the official game whose day is close to the deadline?

Thanks in advance!

[Leitz]

To be honest, I have no idea! Day 2 has been dragging on for so long, we haven't really had any case besides Rodions and his (fake) claim has forced us to lynch somebody, while actually we're not certain of who to lynch to hammer..

interesting. what you are saying basically is that hammering is getting lynched?

No, I just meant that we must find somebody who we all (most of us) feel comfortable to hammer or find somebody we want lynched.

[MoB Deadly]

MOB, I have evidence that you were online yesterday (real time games), plus I see you posted in another game today.

How about you give more attention to the official game whose day is close to the deadline?

Thanks in advance!

Umm I am definitely here.. I just don't have much to add, I am pretty sure I have made my position on the case several times now. We are stuck because Swifte and Trini do not want to put you at L-1 in case of a careless hammer that shouldn't be cast. And the FOS system is only semi-working, not working as fast as we need though.

[Rodion]

So, you still feel like you did earlier in D2 regarding the FOS for directing power roles?

[Rodion]

With the deadline in 2 days, I won't wait any longer.

You are all invited to read some pages of Soundman's First Mafia. Here is a little breakdown of what is going on there:

1 - Sully gets BWed and claims Town Watcher.
2 - Isaiah counterclaims Town Watcher.
3 - People lynch Sully and he flips Mafia Godfather.
4 - Isaiah dies N1.
5 - MOB complains of a "fail doc".
6 - Teegee gets BWed and claims Town Doctor.
7 - Teegee is lynched (MOB was in the bandwagon) and flips Town Doctor. It is interesting to point that some players justified voting the claimed doctor because "a real doctor would have protected the watcher".

In that game, town got screwed essentially because nobody said "if Sully flips mafia, doctor protect the watche (Isaiah)". After Isaiah died, the doctor got lynched because people thought it was a fakeclaim (after all, the obvious call was protecting Isaiah). Consequence is town losing 2 of their most important power roles, 1 of them through a mislynch.

What does that show?

Well, obviously, the first conclusion is that telling power roles what to do is beneficial when you don't trust people to make good calls (and the power role you're hoping to make a good call could be virtually anyone in the game).

What did I expect from MOB today?

Regardless of his alignment in the other game, the experience that MOB witnessed had to make him reconsider his way of viewing mafia games, specifically regarding the direction of power roles. I expected MOB to bring that experience over and admit that he did poorly in FOSing me for directing power roles because he had just learned how important that can be when you are simply laying the "obvious calls" ("doctor protect the cop", for instance).

What is the next conclusion?

The next conclusion is one of 2:

a) MOB was unable to realize how directing power roles the way I did was not scummy, despite having a catastrophic example from a town perspective of what may happen when people do not direct power roles
b) MOB did realize how directing power roles the way I did was not scummy, but he chose not to comment because he is anti-town here and he wouldn't risk saying anything that could possibly interfere with the mislynch he wants to see happen

I'd like to see everyone comment on that while we still have time.

[Rodion]

I forgot to point point out that there are posts in Soundman's Mafia in which I provoked MOB into thinking his approach of directing power roles.

Check this post, for instance: viewtopic.php?p=3495881#p3495881

The more I think about it, the more I conclude "a" is less likely than "b".

[betiko]

well first of all you were not the only one rodion here to direct actions for the town, (sorry for being lazy I'm just using my memory) but from what I remember, so did strike and so did someone else (swifte?), 3 of you did.
So it is a bit strange if you are the only player FOSed for that. On the other hand, there has been a big bandwagon on you for this and chapcrap made a big fuss out of this as well. so in that case, why are you pointing out only mob for this and not all the people that did so? because mob is the only one in that other mafia game to be also on the official one?

You have already been asking these guys why you were FOSed/voted for this and not strike. I think it was just justifications to their suspicions against you, as it added up lots of "perfect townie comments" and that you are victim of your reputation... which I can't comment because it's my first game, so i don't know if by having played you more they can read you better...

fastposted by rodion

[Leitz]

Interesting point Rodion, but as of right now I don't see anything happening soon on an potential MoB case as like you said it is only two days. We don't have time to build up a new case, especially not because of the low inactivity since the deadline has been set.

[betiko]

I forgot to point point out that there are posts in Soundman's Mafia in which I provoked MOB into thinking his approach of directing power roles.

Check this post, for instance: viewtopic.php?p=3495881#p3495881

The more I think about it, the more I conclude "a" is less likely than "b".

I see that chapcrap and SG7 are both in that other game. I think SG7 was not around that much during the "town guidance case", but chap was, but I m pretty sure SG7 brought it up as well.

if basically you are complaining about not being treated like strike why are you not treating mob as SG7 and chapcrap?

[Rodion]

That is a truly interesting catch, Betiko. I commend you on that.

The answer is I remembered a lot more of my directing power roles discussion with MOB than with Chap. Why did I remember MOB and forgot Chap?

I don't actually know for sure. The discussion I had with Chap about that ended because he mentioned I directed the cop when he actually meant the busdriver, so with Chap I spent less time discussing the validity of directing power roles and more time discussing why he would sneak a false statement in there.

Adding to that, MOB did complain of the "fail doc" in that game, perhaps firing my radar (it's weird that you accuse people of directing power roles as if power roles know what they have to do and then complain about a power role not knowing what to do) in a more obvious manner. That is probably why I "provoked" MOB in that game while I did not provoke Chap at all (you can read the beginning of D2 in that game if you want to check how it all happened).

But, ultimately, you are correct in the sense that part of Chap's accusation rested on me directing power roles when he also got a neat example of what may happen when power roles are not directed and yet did not retract that part of his accusation. So, yes, you can consider it a double case on MOB/Chap if you will.

I'm not sure about Shield, though. I don't remember him mentioning that back when he voted me.

[Rodion]

@Leitz: a lot can happen in 2 days. A looming deadline should not be used as an excuse to stop scumhunting.

[MoB Deadly]

Rodion - I will make sure I respond to your post tonight. I do not have time to form my debate right now I am being picked up for dinner. Probably during football I can respond so approx 3-5 hours from now.

Long story short I guess I am kind of dumb because I just noticed it now. I literally do not understand that soundmans game at all, I felt like TeeGee and Hippo are acting like scum ON PURPOSE its so obvious, but TeeGee flipped town and Hippo seems to be confirmed town by another player. I am just baffled at the stupidity we are dealing with as town.

If you directed the doctor to heal the watcher we would of been without a mafia kill that night, that would seem to be true.

My ride is here, I will post more about this later. However I want to say that wasn't the only reason I voted for you. I had about 3-5 reasons why I thought you were scum and that was one of them.

[MoB Deadly]

Posting on my phone before I eat. So I don't have any of my posts as evidence as its difficult to quote.

But Strike posted a one liner right before you did advising we protect the cop. I did not find this scummy. What I found particularily scummy was that

1. You were posting directions since the start of the game. You were even doing a Day 1 guide how to play. I think the line is crossed when you dedicate your post to direct power roles

2. I kind of combined 1 and 2. Strike posted one single sentence in a whole paragraph. Your whole post was like formatted like a list on directions what to do

I think it's more of a personal thing I have a problem with

I have no problem hinting at power roles what to do. I draw the line when you dedicated your whole post for that so it was very obvious almost every single player read it and there was no room for differential off the path. With just a hint I think it can stand out more to the player it applies to, you made absolute sure everyone including the mafia read it

Ok gotta go gotta

[MoB Deadly]

Okay I am back so I can answer any questions, may be delayed im in the finals for Fantasy Football...

I think I said mostly all I wanted to say. Here are my posts on the subject, like 20 pages back lmfao. They are in order chronologically:

My head is spinning on Rodion.

fos rodion for the directions of power roles. Yes I know Strike did it, but his was one sentence in a paragraph to get the point across. Your post was a list of instructions for multiple power roles. Strikes purpose of posting wasn't to direct power roles, yours was.

fos rodion for you escalating your jokevote case to this ridiculous level. I feel like your vote towards chap is mostly OMGUS based upon his disagreements with you in that case. You say we have all the evidence in this thread. Could you please quote or highlight chap's scummiest posts?

fos rodion/betiko for possible linkage. I want to get to the bottom of this, I feel this is a constant thorn in our side that we need to understand, so we know where we need to focus in this game.

I don't necessarily know if we need to address this now or a different day. Strike said, we should cut out losses. Does anyone else have an opinion if we should move on from this before we shoot ourselves in the foot more, or are we safe to keep investigating?

Mob,

"Strike wrote a line, Rodion wrote a paragraph."

So what? If you compare both texts, the only difference is I added the watcher instructions, something I had already done the previous day and a possible reason our doctor is still alive (perhaps mafia felt intimidated and didn't kill the doctor when it's possible we don't even have a watcher ).

And know you're reading minds to say Strike's purpose was different? Alright, think what you want...

"Rodion is escalating his jokevote / Also, where is the evidence"?

I'm not sure how much evidence you want. Chap made a mess out of the Epitaph case, FOS him and me an taking days to clear the whole mess. Now we have evidence of Chap calling me out on instructions while ignoring Strike. That's probably not enough in your book since you're also applying 2 standards for Strike and me, right? So, how about the fact he flat out lied while trying to incriminate me in his last post?

[quote="chapcrap"Multiple posts containing information about how he wants town to act. Including telling the cop, doctor, and watcher what actions to take.

Lie in red. Is that evidence enough or would you like me to scavenge old posts for more?

Town Instructions: Day 1 with only 1 claim, I feel yes, be as specific as possible to that the mafia are too intimidated to even think about killing the claimed role. Any other day with multiple claims, I don't feel it should be as spelled out as you made it. I prefer Strikes method of just saying what should be said and then moving on with the rest of his post. I just dont like how your whole post was directed at night actions. I feel like you want to make it so obvious to those roles to what to do so that they are predictable. If all of our actions are 100% predictable, it makes it that much easier for scum to pick us apart.

That is just my opinion. I don't consider this evidence in a case, if I did, it is tiny and not very meaningful.

I actually agree with what you said about chap. I don't like how he messed up the epitaph case, and I don't like that red line either. Its hard for me to determine if its a difficult town vs scum case of who can debate better, or if both of you are just OMGUSing each other because you want to be the leaders of this game.

My suspicion against you is just a bunch of little things that are snowballing for me. I think your suspicions on chap are definitely valid, but I feel like I have more things against you than chap.

Fastposted by Rodion - Definitely waiting for Chap's response to this.

I bolded those lines in my original post, I just hilighted them red now.

[MoB Deadly]

Last one - sorry for the quadpost, I couldnt get the quotes to nest correctly

I don't think there's really a problem with being a little bit "on the fence" if it's true. I'm not always completely confident in my decisions and I don't have a problem showing that.

I am not completely confident either. I've said that I have had suspicions about you and chap. I have even said, if more experienced players think we have done enough damage to themselves to pursue another claim tonight then I would refrain from voting even though my gut tells me to put my vote on you. My reasons are:

1) As someone else said, there are too many people involved. This is a stupid metaphor but I think of it as a knotted shoe. Right now theres one big main knot that is messing everything up. If we can undo that one big knot, the rest of it should be easier.

2) I can make much more clearer cases based upon your alignment. If you flip scum I can do things like clear chapcrap. I know thats WIFOM, but you two have been butting heads SO much, I would be a little more confident following chap. Not saying that if you are town that chap is automatically scum either, as I have said multiple times I feel like it was an OMGUS debate for a leader of this game.

3) I think we have found scum. I think your posts have been too fluffy, I dislike how your biggest case was based upon that jokevote in another game, and I dislike how you dedicated that whole post to direct the town on what to do. And I do not know what type of relation you have to Betiko if any, but I am hoping that your claim may help to unfog.

Therefore, unvote vote Rodion

[chapcrap]

I think that in Soundman's game, the town (myself included) made a big mistake. I was over-extended last week and getting my wisdom teeth out on Friday morning didn't help me.

From my persepective, in Soundman's game, the doctor should not have needed to be told what to do. It's so obvious to save a claimed town. Even if you don't understand power roles and all of the game logistics, you should know that you have the ability to save anyone, you should save someone that you know is on your side. However, if someone would have told that it would be wise to save the watcher, I would have found no fault with that. The difference between that game and this one is the depth and scope with which Rodion was telling the town members what to do. I think that a small blurb about something that is massively obvious, should inherently be allowed. However, stating a whole town game plan is a bad idea because then the town will mostly likely follow the plan and mafia will know town's exact plan and be able to work their magic from there.

[safariguy5]

Vote Count

Rodion (6)- strike, chap, jonty, Mob, betiko, epitaph
strike(1)- Rodion


With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

Deadline in 2 days and about 2 hours.

[jonty125]

I don't disagree with people suggesting what power roles should do but providing a game-plan is just naff as anything can go wring.

[betiko]

ok deadline is already tomorrow for us europeans. I m really starting to get tired of this day 2; and I don't think i'm the only one.

I switch my hammer to chap, cause I m starting to wonder if there is a link between chap and mob with what rodion brought up. chap wants to hammer or so he says, so i'd be happy if someone gives him that pleasure and we can move forward, it's been over a month and I'm done arguing. we are just constantly bringing back stuff we discussed 100s of times about. there is not going to be any huge scumtells all of a sudden, let's just all use our personal opinions of everything that has already been told and stop hoping we will suddenly see the light. no one is sure of anything but we've all developped convictions of what is best in the past weeks.

[dazza2008]

If Chap is going to hammer we need him to unvote. Then 2 more people vote then he hammers. Or someone vote and I will hammer. Not much time lets make a decision.

[trinicardinal]

If Chap is going to hammer we need him to unvote. Then 2 more people vote then he hammers. Or someone vote and I will hammer. Not much time lets make a decision.

I say chap unvote, I can vote and then dazza to bring him to L-1. Then chap can hammer

[dazza2008]

If Chap is going to hammer we need him to unvote. Then 2 more people vote then he hammers. Or someone vote and I will hammer. Not much time lets make a decision.

I say chap unvote, I can vote and then dazza to bring him to L-1. Then chap can hammer

Lets do it then.

[betiko]

If Chap is going to hammer we need him to unvote. Then 2 more people vote then he hammers. Or someone vote and I will hammer. Not much time lets make a decision.

I say chap unvote, I can vote and then dazza to bring him to L-1. Then chap can hammer

I m ok with that. jimfinn hasn t been around in a long time and he was supposed to make the FOS count... People tend to say that the fos count was already on him and I just flipped my vote on him, does the majority agrees that chap should hammer? (shouldn't we prod jimfinn?) whatever is decided, we only have a day with all jetlags.