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Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus [warned]

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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby Rodion on Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:29 pm

Chuuuuck wrote:A full defense, via PM, will be coming from all involved proving that this report should be cleared with no punishment AFTER he returns from vacation. Now that all of the evidence has been posted and it is known there will be no public defense, there is little more to be said here. I would ask that everyone please refrain from posting in this thread unless you are posting actual facts about the case with game links and more.


Interesting. Legally, it's absolutely understandable that you'll prefer to make your defense via PM as to not allow the "court of public opinion" to taint the trial.

viewtopic.php?p=3214443#p3214443

Morally, however, it shows an iffy position at best, as the above link shows your opinion was 180Āŗ different when your clan sided with the accusers.
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby Serbia on Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:45 pm

Rodion wrote:
Chuuuuck wrote:A full defense, via PM, will be coming from all involved proving that this report should be cleared with no punishment AFTER he returns from vacation. Now that all of the evidence has been posted and it is known there will be no public defense, there is little more to be said here. I would ask that everyone please refrain from posting in this thread unless you are posting actual facts about the case with game links and more.


Interesting. Legally, it's absolutely understandable that you'll prefer to make your defense via PM as to not allow the "court of public opinion" to taint the trial.

viewtopic.php?p=3214443#p3214443

Morally, however, it shows an iffy position at best, as the above link shows your opinion was 180Āŗ different when your clan sided with the accusers.


In keeping with your "legal" analogy, precedence has been established in the KORT case, allowing that a private defense is perfectly acceptable. Now I personally disagree with that decision, however, I don't see why ANYONE would EVER make a public defense anymore, based on the KORT case alone. My feelings on this case are the same as the KORT case - if the public is meant to make public accusation, because the C&A hunters will not be looking for this type of abuse unless it is presented to them, then the defense should be made public, in it's totality. This didn't happen with KORT, and I see no reason why TOFU will be compelled to make it public either. (regardless of what I'd prefer to see)

Also, I will reiterate what other members of my clan have said: if it's proven that Chariot of Fire, and other members of his clan, have abused the Account Sitting Guidelines, then they need to be punished for it. Knowing how long it took members of G1 to accumulate data for their report, it's impossible for us to comment on the evidence given without researching it ourselves. We are not required to comment, or research, and my personal position is to let this be solved by the C&A mods, who have been showing themselves quite capable in reaching good decisions.
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby eddie2 on Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:46 pm

well if i made a rteport and backed up abuse from 10 months ago i would of been done for spuriouis report.

get a life and show present claims not revenge ones

g1 reported you not tofu
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby Bones2484 on Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:02 pm

eddie2 wrote:g1 reported you not tofu


Stop making this into a clan battle. This is certain members violating certain rules and being reported by other members.
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:07 pm

Serbia wrote:In keeping with your "legal" analogy, precedence has been established in the KORT case, allowing that a private defense is perfectly acceptable.


This precedent existed previously. There was no rule that required people to publicly defend their actions in the C&A thread. People just chose to do so because they didn't much think it mattered where they placed the defense.

Now I personally disagree with that decision, however, I don't see why ANYONE would EVER make a public defense anymore, based on the KORT case alone. My feelings on this case are the same as the KORT case - if the public is meant to make public accusation, because the C&A hunters will not be looking for this type of abuse unless it is presented to them, then the defense should be made public, in it's totality. This didn't happen with KORT, and I see no reason why TOFU will be compelled to make it public either. (regardless of what I'd prefer to see)


The people in that thread were arguing that if all the evidence is on the table, a more fair verdict will be reached (ostensibly -- why else would you want the defense published?). This would be their chance to prove that very sentiment. If they refuse to publish it, that's obviously fine, but it means they also don't really believe that the best decision is reached if the public gets a chance to comment on the defense.
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby lord voldemort on Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:49 am

Thats why something like this should of been submitted by e-tix.
It was intentionally posted in a forum to garner support and controversy. As was the other case against josko...
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby Ace Rimmer on Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:31 am

josko.ri wrote:I am just completing additional evidence so will add that to the first post soon.


Please post a reply as well so those of us that have this bookmarked know when you've updated the first post.
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby lokisgal on Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:17 am

I dont think this is a case of revenge its to point out that there are many people who sit beyond the rules of CC and that if one person is going to get warned then everyone else should as well.
RE the eticky filing one makes it way to easy to sweep things under the rug that way so public is the way to go
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby lord voldemort on Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:19 am

I trust King Achilles...the guy who usually answers the most e-tix...to not shift it under the rug
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby drunkmonkey on Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:36 am

You can argue that this should have started as an e-ticket, but it can't go there now. Josko has been branded a cheater by CC, and is now viewed by the community as one. Why should everyone who did the exact same thing be privately accused, while he remains the pariah?

It's not about revenge, it's about removing the undeserved stigma.
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby Serbia on Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:38 am

drunkmonkey wrote:You can argue that this should have started as an e-ticket, but it can't go there now. Josko has been branded a cheater by CC, and is now viewed by the community as one. Why should everyone who did the exact same thing be privately accused, while he remains the pariah?


I'm going to agree with this. The whole C&A forum exists to make public accusations. If there are others who are cheating in the same way, then publicly accuse them, and have them be publicly punished if found guilty. It's the only way to go.
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby josko.ri on Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:42 am

eddie2 wrote:get a life and show present claims not revenge ones

g1 reported you not tofu


I do not see how this is revenge. if I wanted revenge, I would report Bones2484 as he reported me, not Chariot or Pedronicus. one of 2 players accused here, Pedronicus, posted zero posts in the case against me, so I do not see why I would revenge to someone who in any way did not participated in the case against me.

my motivation is my wish that everyone who did the same way of cheating get equal punishment. is it so high expectation? and speaking about my motivation in any way does not help this case. my motivation is here irrelevant. the only relevant here should be accusing arguments from the first post and defensive arguments.

(@ jake- I will notify in thread when I add new evidence)
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby Frop on Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:07 am

Five pages of petty insults and other bullshit. Is there actually anything relevant to the case?
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby jackal31 on Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:28 am

drunkmonkey wrote:It's not about revenge, it's about removing the undeserved stigma.


LOL.....good luck with that. After all the personal vendetta's that have gone on here for the last few months, that is going to be hard to wash off.

Whats really disgusting is people cant play this site and have fun doing it anymore. Its turning into a political battle.
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby Dako on Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:48 am

Let's not use the term cheater (A person who acts dishonestly in order to gain an advantage) but use abuser instead (Someone who regularly or habitually abuses someone or something, in particular).

So josko is not a cheater, he abused account sitting. CoF + Pedro are not accused of cheating, they are accused of sitting abuse. Cheating is far worse, and I do not remember many cases where players actually cheated the system dishonestly. So do not label people as cheaters when they do not deserve to be called that.
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby Chuuuuck on Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:40 am

It is pretty amazing how bad the mods are at actually doing their jobs here. They claim, "keep things on topic" and only post things if they are relevant to the case, but in reality I guess they don't mean that at all. I just went through and read every post in this thread and I think there were maybe 3 actual posts that belonged in this thread and actually discussed evidence against the accused or their defense.

I will come out and openly admit that I have flagged nearly every post in this thread for trolling and asked for notification when something is done about it and they have not done a thing about any of the posts.

Almost every post here has started off with "I think" or something along those lines and has went off and talked about this being revenge or compared this to the josko case. All of which is 100% irrelevant to the case at hand. If people want to discuss this the way they are, they can make a thread in GD or the clan forums and talk about it all they want, the right way... where I will NEVER go to read it. Unfortunately, I have to read this thread as it is supposed to pertain to the facts and the case against my clan, but I have to waste over half an hour of my time reading useless shit because THE MODERATORS fail to moderate anything. Locking the thread, then unlocking it and allowing it to go straight back to off topic posts does not constitute as doing anything. Warn the people who make off topic posts, follow whatever rules you supposedly have in place and then give them forum bans so we can limit the amount of crap that has to be read by those of us who just want to enjoy this site and not spend hours in dumbass political banter.

I have always held the opinion that this is a great site and defended against those that complained too much, but I am starting to join their argument that this is turning into too much crap and a waste of time to be enjoyable anymore. I respect the job you all have to do here and completely believe you will make a fair judgement on this case, just quit choosing to selectively do your job and in the process wasting my time with all of the crap I have to read here. If you find the members of my clan guilty, great, I am okay with that, shit happens, we will move on, eventually most of us will probably quit the site anyway because it has become more frustrating than fun. You making me read all of this off topic posts for the 1-2 relevant posts that exists only adds to that frustration.

So, I will say it again, I am now going to go through and report every single post again that is not on topic with the evidence in this case in hopes that you do your job and get these off topic posts out of here so it quits wasting my time. That way, if someone decides they want to waste an hour of their time, they can go read the opinion thread that should start in General Discussion. And those of us that decide this is a waste of their lives, but want to help put a defense together, we can come here and read the 4 actual relevant posts here in about 5 min. and go on with our lives.
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby Foxglove on Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:39 pm

Chuuuuck wrote:It is pretty amazing how bad the mods are at actually doing their jobs here. They claim, "keep things on topic" and only post things if they are relevant to the case, but in reality I guess they don't mean that at all. I just went through and read every post in this thread and I think there were maybe 3 actual posts that belonged in this thread and actually discussed evidence against the accused or their defense.


This is a fairly consistent behavior, no matter how many times requests are made
for modly intervention. :(

And I agree - CC is no longer fun.
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby lord voldemort on Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:52 pm

tooo many links foxy...and if you arent having fun...maybe you need to get with some fun people :)
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby JOHNNYROCKET24 on Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:27 pm

I just found it odd that examples 3 and 4 involved a game with Blitzaholic.
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby Crazyirishman on Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:19 pm

I think its pretty bad when someone spends more time making posts and finding evidence about somebody in the games then actually playing the games themselves. This whole thing is pathetic, just like the last one was. The whole 'this guy a turn for his friend at a time when another guy was capable of taking a turn but didn't, let sick the hound dogs on em' mentality is something you'd expect from the 12 year olds on the site, not the 'established players in establish clans'. I mean really at some point you have to get your priorities straight. What a bunch of lifers we got here.
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby king achilles on Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:00 am

Frop wrote:Five pages of petty insults and other bullshit. Is there actually anything relevant to the case?

I am inclined to agree. I don't want to wait for the next 5 or so pages of the same thing over and over again.

This thread will remain locked. It will only be open if there will be new evidence that will be presented against the accused. Feel free to pm me if you have one. Since the accused said they will give us their defense privately, then this thread will remain locked indefinitely.
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby king achilles on Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:15 pm

Due to the latest evidence provided by josko.ri, it has been proven that Chariot of Fire has took turns for some players, including for some moderators, that were not yet in danger of missing their turn(s) or that the owner had a chance to take the turn by himself:

9157574
9043142
8687933
8441498
8631053

All those other games that happened last 2010 shall be noted to only support any recent activities for the case, and for this report, they can not be ignored. Therefore, Chariot of Fire has been warned. Pedronicus has been noted for letting his games be played by an account sitter, even though he was fully capable of playing his turns by himself.
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby Ace Rimmer on Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:32 am

king achilles wrote:Chariot of Fire has took turns for some players, including for some moderators


UNTRUE along with other assumptions made. More information to follow.
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby Ace Rimmer on Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:07 am

king achilles wrote:Due to the latest evidence provided by josko.ri, it has been proven that Chariot of Fire has took turns for some players, including for some moderators, that were not yet in danger of missing their turn(s) or that the owner had a chance to take the turn by himself:

Game 9157574
Game 9043142
Game 8687933
Game 8441498
Game 8631053

All those other games that happened last 2010 shall be noted to only support any recent activities for the case, and for this report, they can not be ignored. Therefore, Chariot of Fire has been warned. Pedronicus has been noted for letting his games be played by an account sitter, even though he was fully capable of playing his turns by himself.


linked games.
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Re: Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus, oth

Postby josko.ri on Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:15 am

Ace Rimmer wrote:
king achilles wrote:Chariot of Fire has took turns for some players, including for some moderators


UNTRUE along with other assumptions made. More information to follow.

no need to yell Ace, if you have more information, you can provide it without yelling.
I am glad the truth is proven in this case =D>
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