Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

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Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:37 am

AndyDufresne wrote:It's clear that Blitzaholic is a polarizing figure---but I think everyone has long knew that. It's clear that there is a lot of opinion regarding those for and against Blitz---or however your choose to delineate the sides. It's clear that a portion of the Community would like to case re-looked at, so I'm going to use my executive authority to reopen the case for investigation.

Lets all look at the evidence again, and in a line by line sort of manner, and see if we can also reconstruct the timeline.

The primary concerns seem to revolve around both Account Sitting/Point Dumping (and taking turns or not) and a general Gross Abuse of the game. So:

What is game by game list of the real games in question?



--Andy
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby eddie2 on Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:42 am

well i can start this with the e ticket i responded to this morning might sort some form of time line



ok then if you read leolous statement in the c and a thread he states he was taking jobis turns because jobi was absent from the site. this by the looks of it was in feb

Game 8545271
Game 8545272
Game 8545273
Game 8545475
Game 8550555

these are a couple of the games that make it look like this there are a lot more round this period. here is a quote from leolou

"That being said Blitz ask me if Jobi had played any games and not to join anymore games for him, and my reply was no I have been playing them and that is when I quit joining games for him and only play the ones that he was or is in with us."

now why tell the player that is taking his turns in tourneys to stop taking them and stop signing him up to them. Then what comes into ? is the fact that after this post in the c and a thread jobi was signed up to 15 more games 4 or 5 quad games and the rest tourney ones. where you then blocked jobis account for this.
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby Fruitcake on Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:43 am

Thank you Andy.
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby Stegura on Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:44 am

http://www.conquerclub.com/player.php?m ... biwan&so=D

He misses turns in his tournament games.
He plays very actively in his team games with Blitz.
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:46 am

What do we know are the earliest games, in the evidence list? I'd really like to see the whole list of games posted in a post, it'll allow everyone to get a better sense of what is going on I think (better than just posting a search for Jobiwans games). Lets try to compile it.


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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby Fruitcake on Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:47 am

AndyDufresne wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:It's clear that Blitzaholic is a polarizing figure---but I think everyone has long knew that. It's clear that there is a lot of opinion regarding those for and against Blitz---or however your choose to delineate the sides. It's clear that a portion of the Community would like to case re-looked at, so I'm going to use my executive authority to reopen the case for investigation.

Lets all look at the evidence again, and in a line by line sort of manner, and see if we can also reconstruct the timeline.

The primary concerns seem to revolve around both Account Sitting/Point Dumping (and taking turns or not) and a general Gross Abuse of the game. So:

What is game by game list of the real games in question?



--Andy


I think this is the key and needs reviewing closely.
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby Leehar on Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:50 am

Again, this all seems to be returning to the principle that Blitz had an intent to point-dump/hijack account etc while everyone simultaneously agreeing on him having no precise reason to have done so..
I thought I gave a plausible scenario what happened but it seems to have been forgotten, so I repeat it again:
1) Jobiwan was having trouble making turns, so when Blitz asked to sit for him in those where his team games were affected, Jobi gave him his pass. Simultaneously, Jobi also said he'd like to play more games with Blitz. (Time Period: Somewhere between 28th March - 6th May)
2) In this same time period, Jobi was also joining Tournaments through the forums... (Stopped at the 6th of May)
3) Then sometime after that, Jobi completely disappeared (without warning)
Blitz continues sitting games in which he was in with jobi
Blitz joined some tournament games that were around 10h (my theory being that he still expected Jobi to play those games whenever he got back)
Blitz created Public Team Games and invited Jobi as he was asked to do.
Those game were joined, presumably by someone other than Jobi...
Blitz got warned, Jobiwan got premium temporarily stripped until such time as he could explain the occurrences

What am I missing?
Last edited by Leehar on Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby AndyDufresne on Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:51 am

Leehar wrote:Again, this all seems to be returning to the principle that Blitz had an intent to point-dump/hijack account etc while everyone simultaneously agreeing on him having no precise reason to have done so..
I thought I gave a plausible scenario what happened but it seems to have been forgotten, so I repeat it again:
1) Jobiwan was having trouble making turns, so when Blitz asked to sit for him in those where his team games were affected, Jobi gave him his pass. Simultaneously, Jobi also said he'd like to play more games with Blitz. (Time Period: Somewhere between 28th March - 10th May)
2) In this same time period, Jobi was also joining Tournaments through the forums... (Stopped at the 10th of May)
3) Then sometime after that, Jobi completely disappeared (without warning)
Blitz joined some tournament games that were around 10h (my theory being that he still expected Jobi to play those games whenever he got back)
Blitz created Public Team Games and invited Jobi as he was asked to do.
Those game were joined, presumably by someone other than Jobi...
Blitz got warned, Jobiwan got premium temporarily stripped until such time as he could explain the occurrences

What am I missing?


Lets look at the evidence of this timeline. What games correlate with all these times, and what games are all in between?


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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby Bones2484 on Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:56 am

By doing a simple search of forum posts by Jobiwan it looks as though he was, on average, joining 2-3 tournaments a day or at least making that amount of posts per day. And then after March 6th he did not make another post in the forum.

I'd say that's a good starting point to use for when Jobiwan "left" the site to deal with things.

edit: Digging deeper...

Jobiwan has no games that seem to start between the date listed above and 3/19/11, which is when Game 8636593 was initialized. So that's roughly two weeks of no one joining games before he starts appearing in many new ones.

I count:
    - Roughly 142 games that have a higher game number than the one linked above.
    - 29 public games, all with Blitz, with no deadbeating
    - 3 Wins by Jobiwan in the 113 games not teamed up with Blitz, most of the losses are by deadbeat (I stopped checking...)
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby Leehar on Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:09 am

I'd also like to know exactly how many games Jobiwan was running all in all when Blitz started sitting for him. It's all very well and good for people to say that Blitz should have sat all the tourney games, or else told the TO's Jobi was awol (Even if he didn't know if that was fully the case, just that he wasn't making some turns), but I really don't think that obligation could have been placed on Blitz if Jobi had upwards of 80 games when most people are used to under 50

Bones2484 wrote:Jobiwan has no games that seem to start between the date listed above and 3/19/11, which is when Game 8636593 was initialized. So that's roughly two weeks of no one joining games before he starts appearing in many new ones.

I count:
    - Roughly 142 games that have a higher game number than the one linked above.
    - 29 public games, all with Blitz, with no deadbeating
    - 3 Wins by Jobiwan in the 113 games not teamed up with Blitz, most of the losses are by deadbeat (I stopped checking...)

Thats good to know, but also some other pertinent points. When was the C&A case opened, When did Jobiwan first get to cook (I suspect March?), and what effect did that mention by leolou that he would no longer be sitting for the other games for Jobiwan after the C&A report have on the deadbeating etc?
And also, those 113 games were all tourney ones, just to confirm?
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby Bones2484 on Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:16 am

Leehar wrote:And also, those 113 games were all tourney ones, just to confirm?


Actually, I see one of those 113 that is a public game and not with Blitz: Game 8695861. Of course he deadbeated that one.

Otherwise, yes, they are all tournament games. While I agree with you that they should not be held accountable to play a massive amount of games... at the same time, no one should have been joining any game that there was no intent to play.

edit: Minor adjustment to the numbers I put in my previous post. The first three public games look to have been made (just not started) before 3/6/11. Judging by game numbers (which are created when the game is made, not initialized), games with a number higher than 8648000 are on 3/7/11 or later. That means that there are 26 public games joined by Jobiwan after he seemingly left the site.
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby Leehar on Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:22 am

Bones2484 wrote:
Otherwise, yes, they are all tournament games. While I agree with you that they should not be held accountable to play a massive amount of games... at the same time, no one should have been joining any game that there was no intent to play.

However, going back to why that rule first came to play, I'd assume that it was so that if you're away for a short period of time, those games could be entered into so that you aren't kicked out of a tourney unduly. There was no suggestion that Jobiwan would disappear for an extended duration (Again, didn't the mention of the death come some time later when the case was reported?), so I would think it'd be a safe assumption to join those games under the expectation that jobiwan would play the majority of them...
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby Bones2484 on Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:24 am

Leehar wrote:
Bones2484 wrote:
Otherwise, yes, they are all tournament games. While I agree with you that they should not be held accountable to play a massive amount of games... at the same time, no one should have been joining any game that there was no intent to play.

However, going back to why that rule first came to play, I'd assume that it was so that if you're away for a short period of time, those games could be entered into so that you aren't kicked out of a tourney unduly. There was no suggestion that Jobiwan would disappear for an extended duration (Again, didn't the mention of the death come some time later when the case was reported?), so I would think it'd be a safe assumption to join those games under the expectation that jobiwan would play the majority of them...


Which would make sense if it weren't for the fact that half of those tournament games Jobiwan joined after he had already been missing for 1.5+ weeks and deadbeated about 60 others.
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby jpcloet on Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:27 am

So are you saying as a very experienced TO and Tournament player, Blitz should have known to replace that player. Is that really the expectation?
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Re: Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

Postby jpcloet on Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:42 am

Just trying to clarify. If Blitz knew that J was missing turns and was already in say a Clandemonium game, then I don't see the issue except that you know you have a partner that may screw you over by missing turns. However, if he was not in the game and blitz joined in the account of J, then I'm not comfortable with that. If Blitz invited him to a game, knowing he was away, and then a) let another accept the invite or b) accepted the invite himself, then I see several potential conflicts of interest.
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