Blitzaholic, Jobiwan -- Redux

[Blitzaholic]

well i can start this with the e ticket i responded to this morning might sort some form of time line


ok then if you read leolous statement in the c and a thread he states he was taking jobis turns because jobi was absent from the site. this by the looks of it was in feb.

wrong, jobi and I didnt starting joining games together until March, jobi was active at times and played some of his games in March 2011.

he did not seem to play much games in Feb because he was over in the UK on business if I remember correctly.

here is a quote from leolou

"That being said Blitz ask me if Jobi had played any games and not to join anymore games for him, and my reply was no I have been playing them and that is when I quit joining games for him and only play the ones that he was or is in with us."

now why tell the player that is taking his turns in tourneys to stop taking them and stop signing him up to them. Then what comes into ? is the fact that after this post in the c and a thread jobi was signed up to 15 more games 4 or 5 quad games and the rest tourney ones. where you then blocked jobis account for this.

lol, eddie you are so confused. I asked leo has he heard from jobi, is he taking his turns, this was around March 30th or end of March sometime. I was concerned because he was missing games in our games on March 29th, this is about the time I noticed he was missing some turns only because he was in some games with me and I could tell because his time was low. when I posted in the game chat that I took his turns on 3-29-11, you freaked out eddie, I took some of his tourney games and his public games and posted them in game chat. Leo was taking his turns March 30th until now, not me.

I heard in the forum on 3-29-11 that jobi's relative passed away and this is why he has not been on lately. This is when I had real concern jobi may be away from cc for awhile and be missing turns. Leo happen to join a couple of his invites into tourney games around that time frame, and I pm'd Leo and asked him not too, if jobi is missing a lot games, do not join more for him. I was helping leo and jobi by saying that. I never told leo not to take jobi's turns, in fact, I told him very clearly to take jobi's turns and do not join any games he is invited too.

Now for the 5 public games you share about eddie, that is also untrue, you do not know any of the facts and all you are saying is fabricated lies and twisting things around that is far from the truth. Those 5 games you may speak of eddie were created in public about 10 to 14 days before the C&A issue existed, when the C&A issue was posted in the forums, those last few public games got filled by the public within 48 hours or so. NO games were created since the C&A post. Like I said, leo may of joined some tourney games without knowing any better, he had no idea at this time jobi's relative passed away, when I found out leo did join tourney games, I pm'd him and told him not too, and he stopped as far as I know.


Again, there was no intent and no point dumping. Jobi was a cook when we started playing some games and remains a cook now, really no difference. I showed you all the games jobi happened to win during the March timeframe we played together, he won just about as many points as he lost, david wain and eddie were posting them and discussing it, there was about a 200 point difference. Do you really think after playing about 100 games and losing around 200 points is really point dumping? Give me a break.

The fact is, when I noticed Jobi missing some turns in games was only because he was teaming with me in some and I happen to see his time low in our games together, so, then, I would rush over and take his first 3 to 5 games he was up with me in, and at times his 1st few turns in his tournament games in as well, then I had to go to work. I had no idea jobi may of been missing a lot of turns while I was working, again, not until I realized it in my games with him. How am I suppose to know that? or even be responsible for that? I took his turns when I could when I noticed he needed help. Pretty much the first few weeks in March, to me, as far as I knew, he was somewhat active.

From ladder part of March on forward jobi did not seem to return to the cc site (my understanding was because of a death in the family) all our games together were created and joined by the end of March or earlier, with the exception of maybe a few that were almost filled in public, and did fill within 48 hours of the C&A, remember, public games take some time to fill sometimes.

I do believe around late march-early april jobi was automatically kicked out of any public games that were awaiting and random players joined my games unknown to me until they started, and I was thinking how did I get stuck with these partners?

As far as leo is concerned he has been taking all of jobi turns from March 30th til the present, again, not me, I don't even remember his password. Has leo not been taking his turns in late March and early April til now? My understanding is he was and has been.


Again, the multihunters can check to verify all these dates and timeframes.

If you are taking the games after 7th of March, he aint guilty of point dumping. Unless you want to move the goal posts. This is Jobiwans map rank chart between 11th Feb and 7th Mar.

of course there was not no point dumping, I tried to tell you all this and the mods and multihunters cleared me of this. All I said and shared was true the first time. Good grief. If jobi missed a ton of turns it was unknown to me he had missed that many. That would be an accident, not something done on purpose. if that was the case, then why win any of the games at all.

[Pedronicus]

Again, the multihunters can check to verify all these dates and timeframes.

The Multi hunters on this site have shown themselves to be about as effective as the IMF in preventing the financial system collapsing. It must be nice to be a too big to fail bank.

[Leehar]

Again, the multihunters can check to verify all these dates and timeframes.

The Multi hunters on this site have shown themselves to be about as effective as the IMF in preventing the financial system collapsing. It must be nice to be a too big to fail bank.

And I assume the Democratic People of the United States are those to turn towards for the solution to all your financial ails?

[Dako]

Please stay on topic.

[KraphtOne]

Let's pretend jobiwan never existed before the games in question...

If i Have an account, and i set up 600 quad games and invite another screen name...

And then log into that screen name and accept the invites and take all the turns...

what's that called?

If i take this other screen name and deadbeat hundreds of games...

what's that called?

And in my opinion the proper punishment shouldn't be a point reset... just stop posting 100 threads about all the records you have and bashing anyone that has comparable stats and labeling them...

[Dukasaur]

I went through Game Finder, selecting only tournament games, going to the last page and working backward to March 08. I stopped at March 08 because most people seem to agree that the abuse didn't start until March 06, and most tournaments allow you 48 hours to join. Therefore, I disregarded quite a few games that were initialized on March 07.

There are 88 Jobiwan tournament games initialized between March 08 and April 01. Of these, he deadbeated 58, was defeated in the ordinary fashion in 24 of them, won 4 of them outright, and amazingly, remains alive in 2 more.

The first of his deadbeat eliminations are as early as March 11th, but games continued to be joined until April 01. That means for THREE WEEKS, his sitter or sitters knew that he was not taking turns, watched his scores plummeting, and yet continued to join more tournament games.

Regardless of whether the rules technically allow a sitter to join tournament games or not, to continue joining them after seeing overwhelming evidence that someone is not going to play and is having his score utterly obliterated has to qualify as some kind of account abuse at the very least.

Edit: For those who wonder if there's a point to my post, I guess it's an answer to Metsfanmax's point:

The second argument that could be made is that Blitz should be punished for accepting tournament invitations on Jobiwan's account when he knew that those games would be deadbeated out of (this argument also requires proof that at the time of accepting the tournament invites, Blitz knew Jobiwan wouldn't be able to take his own turns). I think the people asking for a review will have much more success if you can distill your arguments properly, and show why either of these two cases is true.

The word proof has different meanings to different people. To a scientist, it means "95% confidence." To a criminal lawyer, it means "beyond a reasonable doubt." To a civil lawyer, it means "likely in a balance of the probabilities." To a philosopher, it may just mean "this side of Occam's razor."

Obviously, if you wish to demand the level of proof that is used in a criminal court, then no. The case is unproven and unprovable. But I think a scientist, a philosopher, or a civil lawyer would look at this and say that the balance of probabilities is that someone with access to Jobi's account joined those tournament games with full knowledge of the fact that Jobi was not going to win those games and was going to see his scores plummet.

[eddie2]

you need to go back to 20th feb thats when jobi started missing or only deploying even in games he had starts withh bonuses. i have only went that far back so far and his game play back to that date is not of someone playing on this site. it is also when he started losing 90 percent of games for a player of his experiance that is impossible.

also on the 7th of march and just before while not playing turns in his present games why has he joined these games (not via invite)
Game 8550726
Game 8550555
Game 8550468
Game 8387129
Game 8385735
Game 8384924

now like most of the games that were actually played during the whole period in question they contained tournement organisers. it really does look like who ever was sitting his account was making sure the tourney organisers did not see he was missing.

[pearljamrox2]

Yo Blitz, nice of you to stop by.

For the sake of having a conversation, I'll pretend I believe everything you've said is true.

Do you realize, that when you invited Jobi to your games, then took his password, logged on and accepted your invites, and then when Jobi never came around so you had to play all his turns in those games you accepted him to, that you really screwed up?

Do you realize that by controlling the entire process of joining and playing out a game without the original account holder involved at all, even though it wasn't your supposed intention, is essential running a multi?

Do you realize, that when you are THE CONQUEROR, and this second account is a 500 cook, and you are playing on a conquest map to point rape people, it looks EVEN WORSE.

Do you see how the two infractions go hand in hand? And how you admitted to the first one and were warned, but the second one was somehow overlooked?

Can you see how someone might say, to receive a warning for account sitting abuse, you would think a guy would first have to be account sitting, which you admit, you really weren't too worried about his "other games".

So is that what we have here? You, unknowingly if you want to say that, joined him to your games, and then, unfortunately for you, it turns out his account is dormant, and you unwittingly multi-ed yourself?

[Fircoal]

Considering a lot of the games have Leolou2 sitting for him and Leolou2 in them, doesn't that mean that Leolou2 is just as fault as Blitz is. Just because Blitz is the egomaniac that is fun to demonize doesn't mean that we should forget about his partners. One should assume that both of them would know about Jobi's absence after he was gone for a week and a half and shouldn't have joined the games. Even if Blitz was the one to start them, isn't the fact that Leo didn't speak up and joined them just as bad?

Also I think the time frame is the big part about it. I think there needs to be a time limit in place for indefinite absences (so people just don't join tourney games when the original owner isn't coming back) as well rules for the sitter to have to play ALL games. If the sitter is a team mate in some of the games, there is definitely an advantage to be had if they only play those games. I would say that a sitter deciding to only sit the games that effect them is betraying the trust of whom they're setting for, and gross abuse of the game.

[Funkyterrance]

Are the Multi-Hunters able to determine by IP addresses who actually was the sitter who joined the games in question during those time frames?

[jbrettlip]

I want to see Blitz;s birth certificate!!!!!

[Dibbun]

In my opinion you should have a 'stasis' option (approved via e-ticket) for RL issues, and all your games are freezed, with it not affecting f2p people's max number of open games. Then you can get rid of the account sitting thing all together, because really nothing good can come of it.

[leolou2]

Hey all you boys out there fine if you have a beef with Blitz but stay out of our game chat , this rude and annoying so quit being assholes please. Thank you and enjoy you weekend

[jbrettlip]

[Funkyterrance]

Spam much?
While this is funny it may be better in the discussion thread lol.
One thing is though that nobody sat Blitz's account so it may need some work.
I get the idea though

[jbrettlip]

PS I am drunk.

[Funkyterrance]

Ahh ok man. Sweet Dreams.

[Serbia]

PS I am drunk.

DUDE I AMA DRUNK! LMAO!

[Funkyterrance]

Just for the record I was not trying to tell jb what to do. I was SUGGESTING that his joke might be better enjoyed in the discussion forum since it is pretty funny and poeple won't be able to find it as easily here.

[lord voldemort]

Are the Multi-Hunters able to determine by IP addresses who actually was the sitter who joined the games in question during those time frames?

maybe...it will require quite a bit of legwork from them though as it is a lot of data to go through

[Funkyterrance]

Well at least it's possible, that's good to know, thx.

[Robinette]

It would be nice to have a daily summary update of the highlights...


There is much to wade through here...

[Chariot of Fire]

Blitz,

wrong, jobi and I didnt starting joining games together until March, jobi was active at times and played some of his games in March 2011

Let's just take the timeline back and have a little history lesson. Jobiwan joined the site in Dec'08 and has since played 8,352 games, won eight tourneys, and has gold medals for singles and quads. Quite an experienced player then. Your real relationship with him seemed to begin in Sept'09 when he is the first to join - in pretty much every instance - as the first player on your opposing team (funny that) and play a long sequence of 50 games over the ensuing six months. Of his first 56 games against you he won just six. With a nice low score you then take him take him under your wing in Mar'10 - a little over a year ago - and have since played a staggering 497 quads games together. That averages approximately nine new games a week. Are we to believe in all this time you never once sat for him? Is it really plausible when you make the statement

I don't even remember his password

in your defence? A partner with such a long playing history? So for starters just the nature of your relationship - quite possibly as far back as Sept'09 when you were regular opponents - and the systematic farming that ensued with him for 500 games should have set alarm bells ringing. It certainly could be considered a breach of the Unwritten Rules of this site.

NO games were created since the C&A post

Well this is probably hardly surprising is it? There is however the small matter of you creating games after you became aware of Jobiwan's incapacity to log into CC. Take Game 8771783 for example. This game was created on the morning of 27th March. We can ascertain this because Game 8771781 happens to be a speed game created that morning. So you made the game, invited the absent Jobiwan, logged into Jobiwan's account and proceeded to join the game. I would contend that this is most certainly an example of 'Hijacking Accounts' and is a serious contravention of CC rules. Just to refresh your memory, this is the text from your own conversation with leolou2 proving the date on which you were aware Jobiwan was missing:

2011-03-25 22:28:16 - leolou2 [team]: Oh where oh where are you at Jobi
2011-03-25 22:29:21 - leolou2 [team]: You should let Blitz have your PW thur a PM
2011-03-26 15:55:29 - Blitzaholic [team]: did jobi miss another turn? geeez
2011-03-26 16:01:36 - Blitzaholic [team]: all on Black Sheep Squadron (landing point) and NO attacks
2011-03-28 10:00:07 - Jobiwan: blitz for jobi

Has leo not been taking his turns in late March

Er no, it would appear you have if the above game chat is anything to go by. I'm sure you can start to understand why there are some who doubt the veracity of your words.

The fact is, when I noticed Jobi missing some turns in games was only because he was teaming with me in some and I happen to see his time low in our games together, so, then, I would rush over and take his first 3 to 5 games he was up with me in, and at times his 1st few turns in his tournament games in as well, then I had to go to work. I had no idea jobi may of been missing a lot of turns while I was working, again, not until I realized it in my games with him. How am I suppose to know that? or even be responsible for that?

This is, quite frankly, the saddest aspect of the entire case. That a player such as you who in 56 months has played 13,304 games (that's 238 per month) and penned 23,305 posts (14 per day) would have us believe you "had no idea jobi may of [sic] been missing a lot of turns while I was working" and "How am I supposed to know that?". You have lived and breathed this site for the best part of five years and you really expect us to believe you were ignorant of Jobiwan missing over 100 turns in other games? You must think we are idiots. I put it to you that you ensured all of Jobiwan's turns were taken in your own games and deliberately neglected the duty of care that you owed as a sitter to play his other turns. With your track record and time spent on this site, to use the excuse that you were working and therefore neither able nor responsible is totally ridiculous. The sheer volume of games shows a methodical and systematic intent to let Jobiwan's points spiral downwards, ultimately benefitting yourself. It's not that CC can throw a rule at you saying you were obliged to take his turns - it's that you sat back and let it happen. Can't you see how incredibly damning it looks? To have Jobiwan's turns taken in your games and let the others slide is intentional points dumping on the part of the player whose account you control. This is in breach of the Unwritten Rule 'deliberately benefiting from thrown games' and also displays vicarious liability on your part for intentional deadbeating.

From your reply in the original C&A report

I did create some games, he did join some and I did join some for him

Do you not think it prudent to maybe invite someone else as opposed to logging in to an absentee's account and joining games on his behalf? Breach of unwritten rule 'hijacking accounts'.

I just pm'd him again to ask if all is ok, I have heard nothing yet. So, what should I do? Reach out to him again? Do I continue to take some of his turns if I can? Do I let him miss his turns? If he is mourning and feels ok some days, does he take them, and if not, he doesn't?, Do I try to ask him if someone else can take his turns? I am trying to do the right thing here, so asking for help on what to do in this situation? What would you do if this was you in matter?

I tell you what I'd do, along with probably 99.9% of all other users on this site. I'd do the right bloody thing from Day 1 and not come up with some cock-and-bull story to try and justify what it is you have both done and not done. You were entrusted with this player's password; you have a playing history going back 20 months; he is supposedly your friend - or at least a very regular team mate spanning 553 games together. Are you really so naive as to not:
- cease entering him in any more of your games
- decline invites to games he cannot play
- drop him from his games waiting
- cover all his active games to the best of your ability
- get help from leolou if he's a co-sitter
- advise all the TOs of Jobiwan's absence and that he'll be unable to join for the time being
- make some public statement to that effect so you yourself are covered

None of these things were done. None whatsoever. Of course crises happen all the time and one should be prepared to deal with the unexpected. It wasn't that long ago that your own khazalid was suddenly hospitalized, yet we managed to rally round and prevent unnecessary loss and damage to his account and standing (even me for Heaven's sake, and I'm not even in your clan).

You're a clever guy - you know how this site works better than anyone and have proved it time and again with your exploits on the leaderboard. To play the dumb card just doesn't cut it with me I'm afraid, and I think what you did was both premeditated (to raise your own score) and grossly negligent (to lower another's).

I've had a few days to mull over what has been said and done and was starting to question whether I had been over-zealous or heavy-handed in my remarks. We have a long playing history of some very memorable (and always challenging) games and, although I've poked fun at your farming antics and boastful posts, I like to believe we held a mutual respect for each other's playing ability. It therefore saddens - and angers more than anything - me when the very player who is atop them all and should be the custodian of all that's fair and good and worth aspiring to turns out to be little more than a talented player who would sell a friend down the river just for a few measly points. That is why I can't forgive and why I don't believe you are worthy of wearing that crown.

[Fruitcake]

Considering a lot of the games have Leolou2 sitting for him and Leolou2 in them, doesn't that mean that Leolou2 is just as fault as Blitz is. Just because Blitz is the egomaniac that is fun to demonize doesn't mean that we should forget about his partners. One should assume that both of them would know about Jobi's absence after he was gone for a week and a half and shouldn't have joined the games. Even if Blitz was the one to start them, isn't the fact that Leo didn't speak up and joined them just as bad?

Also I think the time frame is the big part about it. I think there needs to be a time limit in place for indefinite absences (so people just don't join tourney games when the original owner isn't coming back) as well rules for the sitter to have to play ALL games. If the sitter is a team mate in some of the games, there is definitely an advantage to be had if they only play those games. I would say that a sitter deciding to only sit the games that effect them is betraying the trust of whom they're setting for, and gross abuse of the game.

Yes it has been spotted that Sitsaholic has been throwing leolou2 under a bus over this whole thing.

[firsal901]

wait, what happened was that Blitzaholic sitted Jobiwan's account and purposely dumped Jobiwan's points?