Account Sitting Abuse - josko.ri [warned]

[Chariot of Fire]

Excellent post Dako. It elaborates on exactly what exceptional is supposed to mean. In fact your post is quite exceptional.

tsunami

- (inc earthquake) - Kiwi123 http://www.news.com.au/world/quake-aftershock-hits-christchurch/story-e6frfkyi-1226009960218

wall fell down on your computer

- jakewilliams http://abcnews.go.com/US/tornadoes-storms-tear-south-292-dead/story?id=13474955

granny digs up your internet cable

- Dako http://www.neowin.net/news/75-year-old-granny-cuts-off-the-internet-for-an-entire-country

been arrested by cops

- Shatners Bassoon http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=upiUPI-20071027-130028-1022&show_article=1

Normal life excuses

- Pedronicus http://www.formspring.me/saphyraicygrave/q/1239957132

[karelpietertje]

[Ace Rimmer]

KORT has a history of being anti-account sitting rules. I am no longer a mod but there are numerous statements in the mod forum by the head of KORT (bruceswar) and how he is opposed to having a built-in account sitting feature on CC. I think it's fairly obvious why he would object to having a standard way of covering games and restrictions on account sitting.

[drunkmonkey]

I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused by the title. Is this a C&A complaint against josko, or just another thread for TOFU to flame KORT?

[Chariot of Fire]

You may call it flaming (though you'd be wrong). Some may call it exposing.

Here are some examples from the recent THOTA-KORT challenge:

Game 8293313 2011-01-16 12:14:18 - #1_stunna: josko this turn
Note: this was stunna's first turn in an unlimited fort game, and if there's one common thread in the games in question, it's that the game had either a complex map or unlimited forts. There's also some question of account sitters joining games with stunna's account during that period.

Game 8055674 2010-12-17 12:50:56 - agonzos: clock running down. josko this turn
Note: gonzo was able to play the following turns within the 24 hours:
Game 8086325 2010-12-16 13:36:37 - agonzos received 3 troops for 7 regions
Game 8054787 2010-12-16 22:59:12 - agonzos received 3 troops for 7 regions
Game 8055861 2010-12-16 23:26:32 - agonzos received 3 troops for 11 regions

Plus there was a ton of sitting for poguemahone in the first round (december), by josko and various other cows.

[sonicsteve]

I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused by the title. Is this a C&A complaint against josko, or just another thread for TOFU to flame KORT?

I see no flames from TOFU here, only evidence and reasoned discussion so far.

bones is the complainant and has raised a report where "josko and various members of KORT" are implicated in account sitting abuse. Any evidence about the general attitude of the KORT clan towards account sitting must be relevant and on-topic in the context of that complaint.

The KORT defence team are hot on the case though, and have swung into action with an off-topic image of a cartoon alligator

[khazalid]

long overdue bust.

[comic boy]

I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused by the title. Is this a C&A complaint against josko, or just another thread for TOFU to flame KORT?

If you think this is a grudge thread then you need to explain why precisely the same accusations were made by THOTA during the recent CCup final against KORT, numerous examples of apparent abuse were pointed out in both game chats and the official challenge thread.
We chose at that time to make no complaint , perhaps in hindsight we should have but in any case an investigation is long overdue. Whether any rules were broken is a decision for CC admin but whatever the outcome the important thing is to achieve some clarity , if members of KORT are innocent of these charges then they should be pleased that the opportunity has arisen to back them up and remove the opposite perception.

[basic_man2010_20]

one quick question

i know that in the accoutn sitting section is says something as following not an exact quote as i cant find it but i think last i knew it said ONLY take turn WHEN in JEOPARDY of missing a turn. now most of them was 5 mins to an hour but i saw some that was 5 hours away.... now i dont hitnk that 5 hours is in JEOPARDY of missing a turn now is it?

While I can somewhat understand the theory behind the "only take a turn when in jeopardy of missing", there's the small problem of the definition of Account Sitting Abuse that are in my OP, which is what I feel is the main rule being broken here. I will quote it again just for reference:


yes but there is also the timelime of it if you look at it 5 hours is not JEOPARDY if missing a turn thus he is abuseing the rights of knowing his partners password and is taking turns for his partners while thye have more then enough time to get online and take the turns. so what i was saying was agreeing qith the one who made this post

[SirSebstar]

pff, if i am sitting for someone, 24 hours is a jeopardy.. I check once a day mostly, so whatever i dont do not is not going to be done at all. Obviously in this case the delay in taking turns was the wait for information.. I can see this happen. I hope this means a new sitting tool gets installed before 2012..

[karelpietertje]

I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused by the title. Is this a C&A complaint against josko, or just another thread for TOFU to flame KORT?

If you think this is a grudge thread then you need to explain why precisely the same accusations were made by THOTA during the recent CCup final against KORT, numerous examples of apparent abuse were pointed out in both game chats and the official challenge thread.
We chose at that time to make no complaint , perhaps in hindsight we should have but in any case an investigation is long overdue. Whether any rules were broken is a decision for CC admin but whatever the outcome the important thing is to achieve some clarity , if members of KORT are innocent of these charges then they should be pleased that the opportunity has arisen to back them up and remove the opposite perception.

In my personal opinion, drunkmonkeys question has nothing to do with the accusation itself.
If there is no grudge at all, the only thing we all want is just to settle it, right?
So, instead of creating this thread, which was bound to only generate more heat, why wasn't the evidence collected taken straight to the moderators?

[Bones2484]

So, instead of creating this thread, which was bound to only generate more heat, why wasn't the evidence collected taken straight to the moderators?

I greatly considered doing that and had a very very brief exchange with King Achilles just for fact-gathering purposes to make sure I was heading down a path in my research that would result in something being against the rules. I didn't use any names/games with him, but he indicated that if I could prove this was happening in "more than 1 or 2 games in extreme circumstances" then I would have a case that would be looked in to.

As for not submitting this privately I decided against it for the main reason that both TOFU and THOTA had attempted to do this privately and got shot down by the hunters they contacted. I figured that this needed to be brought out for everyone that has experiences with it to discuss all in one spot to prove that this is a problem and shouldn't be ignored or swept under the rug.

[comic boy]

I'm sorry, I'm a bit confused by the title. Is this a C&A complaint against josko, or just another thread for TOFU to flame KORT?

If you think this is a grudge thread then you need to explain why precisely the same accusations were made by THOTA during the recent CCup final against KORT, numerous examples of apparent abuse were pointed out in both game chats and the official challenge thread.
We chose at that time to make no complaint , perhaps in hindsight we should have but in any case an investigation is long overdue. Whether any rules were broken is a decision for CC admin but whatever the outcome the important thing is to achieve some clarity , if members of KORT are innocent of these charges then they should be pleased that the opportunity has arisen to back them up and remove the opposite perception.

In my personal opinion, drunkmonkeys question has nothing to do with the accusation itself.
If there is no grudge at all, the only thing we all want is just to settle it, right?
So, instead of creating this thread, which was bound to only generate more heat, why wasn't the evidence collected taken straight to the moderators?

I dont disagree that more drama is created this way but its how it has always been done, this section was specificaly created for the purpose so it makes sense to utilise it I guess. Do certain people get hung out to dry , yes but mostly they deserve it

[lord voldemort]

the only thing i see this not getting a bust is that when this was all going down during tofu challenge...we as hunters had a good long hard look at the account sitting patterns of all of kort.
Forgive me for not remembering exactly what our decision was then...it seams likely they will change it now

though I for one believe he is abusing the system...

it would just be super helpful if the turtle worked on account sitting....even though the hard part is the logistical rule side of things

[khazalid]

be helpful if 'the turtle' worked on anything other than scratching his shell

[Chariot of Fire]

I think at the time the TOFU-KORT investigation wasn't delved into very deeply as we had neither sought a reprimand nor provided evidence to support a claim - it was simply something we weren't intent on pursuing and damaging relationships over. It did bring to light the script that had been written which had been the cause of our antagonism and which had prompted us to file a discreet complaint (for which I believe KORT received a warning), but beyond that I don't believe a thorough investigation was made as the exposure of the script issue rather obfuscated the whole affair.

[Evil Semp]

be helpful if 'the turtle' worked on anything other than scratching his shell

Keep it on topic.

[lord voldemort]

0

I think at the time the TOFU-KORT investigation wasn't delved into very deeply as we had neither sought a reprimand nor provided evidence to support a claim - it was simply something we weren't intent on pursuing and damaging relationships over. It did bring to light the script that had been written which had been the cause of our antagonism and which had prompted us to file a discreet complaint (for which I believe KORT received a warning), but beyond that I don't believe a thorough investigation was made as the exposure of the script issue rather obfuscated the whole affair.

no there was a deep investigation made...trust me...i help to make it

[Bones2484]

the only thing i see this not getting a bust is that when this was all going down during tofu challenge...we as hunters had a good long hard look at the account sitting patterns of all of kort.

I think one big difference now is having some "admissions" to back up our assumptions, like this quote:

2011-05-10 13:34:03 - Rodion: I had 2 plans, so I waited to talk to Josko, but then I had to sleep and he ended up playing for me, sorry

If it wasn't for that statement, we would never have researched the sitting to this degree or even felt there was something worth looking into in the first place. Once we felt like this was more than simply covering turns for people who had low timers, then we started noticing patterns and found it was bigger than originally thought.

It was then that I contacted a few other members and moderators; this wasn't a quickly-moving process that we hastily put together. The thread in the G1 forums has been active for quite a few weeks now with multiple people gathering inputs based on games they were involved in and doing research. We looked into the site's Account Sitting Abuse definitions, we contacted multi-hunters to make sure we even had a case worth following through on, and kept gathering more and more data. I can't imagine what I'd actually find if I looked into more than these two challenges and one tournament.

[Serbia]

I'll vouch for what Bones is saying. In addition to gathering information and evidence, there was also discussion with mods, other heads of clans, and other users. This is in no way something that was thrown together on a spur of a moment, and was something that was approached with caution as well; this is a serious complaint, and we (as G1) did not want to risk our reputations in filing something that may have been seen to be spurious or "sour grapes". This shows in the well constructed post made by Bones.

[jefjef]

So, instead of creating this thread, which was bound to only generate more heat, why wasn't the evidence collected taken straight to the moderators?

It is good that cases like this are public. It may help curb some of those other clans/players that do strategic sitting.

[sjnap]

It is good that cases like this are public. It may help curb some of those other clans/players that do strategic sitting.[/quote]

Hypocrite of Fire ?

[karelpietertje]

[...]

Do certain people get hung out to dry , yes but mostly they deserve it

That is different from your previous post where you claimed that this thread is not a grudge thread, only facts, and purely about getting the abuse-Moderators to investigate the situation.

Also do I have to add that these certain people you speak of have been 'hung out to dry' long enough?

[nippersean]

Not sure I understand this, but....
The question, and the problem is, if Josko doesn't tell his teammates what to do, (for whatever reason) then they simply let him take his turns for them.
So it's like he's playing multi's in Clan games? And his clanmates are agreeing that this is OK strategy?

[reptile]

Another question i have is... if most challenges there are limits to how many games each player can play.... how is this legal?