Baltic Crusades

[theBastard]

I know something from graphic, not enough for now, but I learn quickly

o.k. let think about concept. at the first: will it be set up fot Teutons or for more nations?

thanks for your interest and help

[Commander9]

I know something from graphic, not enough for now, but I learn quickly

o.k. let think about concept. at the first: will it be set up fot Teutons or for more nations?

thanks for your interest and help

IMO, it would be better to discuss through PM's or emails (maybe messengers) as I do tend to forget to reply here sometimes

No problems, I really like this project.

Well, IMO, it would have to be more than just about teutons as they have never actually managed to win there and everything was decided in the battle of Grunwald (which they lost). I think this means that the epicentre of the map should be Grunwald and both Teutons and the Baltics should be portrayed as roughly equals. So Grunwald should be the victory condition which would be large enough to not let anyone get it fast (or get it fast and die), but small enough that it would matter. Thoughts?

[theBastard]

this could be good base for gameplay, I think.

Click image to enlarge.

[Industrial Helix]

You're going to need to have a starting neutral on a few territories to prevent a player from getting an unfair advantage by lucky drop. Usually this applies to any bonus under 3 territories, so a neutral in the P. of Rugen, and maybe the non-colored territories.

You should specify on this map what role the non colored territories play.

[theBastard]

there will be some changes... ofcourse the map needs to do good balance. I have some things in the head and Commander9 also has good advices.

the non coloured areas are simply "lands of nobody"... nothing special....

[MarshalNey]

this could be good base for gameplay, I think.

Click image to enlarge.

I really, really, like this as an objective. Looking at the previous discussion, it would be nice to indicate on the map that Grunwald was a battle... just to show the history and why it's part of the victory objective. Maybe a tagline somewhere on the map, something like, "In 1410, a Polish-Lithuanian alliance fought the Teutonic Order at Grunwald in a climactic battle for mastery of the Baltic States."

[theBastard]

yes good idea. the map needs to do more things, but this one I will add there.

[theBastard]

I made some edits by advices hin the topic:

Commander as you can see: trees in the border of Kuyavia are gone, so there are more way to attack Poland. Trakai is castle now, Vilnius only town. there is no dirrect way to Visby. the penalty for holding religious icons is not -2 but only -1. the bonus for Hanseatic towns when you also hold Visby is not +1 for each but +1 for 2. Narva castle was changed to Wenden castle as Teutonic´s stronghold.
I asked about Grunwald as killer neutral. it is impossible to have condition as killer neutral. so maybe it shoud start as 5 neutral? I will work on the position soon.

Marshal, I add to map that Grunwald was place of battle between Teutons and Polish-Lithuanian forces. for more is not enough place, unfortunately...

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

Your bonuses seem really, really high... For example, Estonia which only has 4 territories, and 4 borders to defend, gets a total of 8 troops... Courland is 4 territories with only 1 border and it gets 9 troops.

You should probably cut all the bonuses in half...

[theBastard]

at the previous version is one error. here is current version, Courland has two borders to hold.
bonuses could seems a little peliculiar, I did them quickly. threfore is map here - to resolve them...
so you, natty think that all regional bonuses could be cut in half?

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

I think all bonuses should be cut in half. Castles, towns, regions. +4 autodeploy per castle is too much considering you have castles all over the place... Make it +2 for castles and +1 for towns and hanseatic towns, you can keep the visby bonus as it is for hanseatic towns.

Then cut all the regional bonuses in half, and we can adjust them from there.

[theBastard]

some edits by yours advices. I add to castles +3 auto-deploy, because if Hanseatic towns will have +1 and bonus +1 for 2 if you have Visby I can have castles stronger. about regional bonuses, I did not cut all if them in half, for example Principality of Rugen now has +1 but Duchy of Estonia could not have also +1, I think (Rugen - only 2 regions to conquer/Estonia - 2 regions, 1 castle, + Hansa town to conquer).
but no problem to change them

one question: if Grunwald is condition for "both sides" will it be better that is will be not part of Lordship of Prussia? so it will be nobody´s land (coloured by sand colour?)

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

for example Principality of Rugen now has +1 but Duchy of Estonia could not have also +1, I think (Rugen - only 2 regions to conquer/Estonia - 2 regions, 1 castle, + Hansa town to conquer).

But those castles and towns will also add to the Estonia bonus so you shouldn't count them when thinking of the bonus.

See, if you make Rugen and Estonia both +1, you'll still be getting +5 from Estonia and +1 from Rugen...

one question: if Grunwald is condition for "both sides" will it be better that is will be not part of Lordship of Prussia? so it will be nobody´s land (coloured by sand colour?)

Yes, that might be better.

[theBastard]

But those castles and towns will also add to the Estonia bonus so you shouldn't count them when thinking of the bonus.

See, if you make Rugen and Estonia both +1, you'll still be getting +5 from Estonia and +1 from Rugen...

this is right. but there is difference between auto-deploy units and manual-deploy units. and when player holds castle and town of Estonia he everytime gain auto-deploy units, but to unite all Estonia should gain bigger bonus as Rugen. it is harder to conquer two regions (Rugen) as two regions + castle + town (Estonia)... or I´m wrong?

Yes, that might be better.

and ones more question: the position is good or maybe move it to the south so Grunwald will have also border with Mazovia? I think there should be more way to attack Grunwald as only from West Prussia...

[natty dread]

this is right. but there is difference between auto-deploy units and manual-deploy units. and when player holds castle and town of Estonia he everytime gain auto-deploy units, but to unite all Estonia should gain bigger bonus as Rugen. it is harder to conquer two regions (Rugen) as two regions + castle + town (Estonia)... or I´m wrong?

The difference between auto-deploy units and manual deploy units depends on game type. If you play with unlimited reinforcements then the difference is practically none. On chained or adjacent the difference is larger...

And the amount of regions to conquer isn't really the only thing that decides the bonus, you need to also consider how hard the area is to defend, and this depends on how many borders it has, and how many territories can attack them. There are formulas for calculating bonuses, and bonus calculator spreadsheets, those can be found on the foundry discussion forum.

and ones more question: the position is good or maybe move it to the south so Grunwald will have also border with Mazovia? I think there should be more way to attack Grunwald as only from West Prussia...

IMO the current position is fine..

[theBastard]

I think that unlimited reinforce are not fine for this map, based on auto-deploy units and castles...

let´s look at Rugen and Estonia:
Rugen - 2 regions which could be attcked from 3 regions
Estonia - 4 regions (including castle, town), which could be attacked from 6 regions.

I know about bonus calculator, I´ve tried it but with no big luck...

[natty dread]

I think that unlimited reinforce are not fine for this map, based on auto-deploy units and castles...

Maps should be designed so that they can be played on all settings...

[porkenbeans]

I think that unlimited reinforce are not fine for this map, based on auto-deploy units and castles...

Maps should be designed so that they can be played on all settings...

I do not agree. This will homogenize things too much, and in the end, will only limit choices in game type. I think that if it is absolutely necessary, you could just limit settings for maps. This will allow (for example), maps like Doodle and Lux. to make it to the floor. There are many players that prefer a small, simple map for a quicker game.

Making all maps that can be played equally on all settings, is not the way to go, if you want diversity in maps.

[natty dread]

Well, you may have a point, but such are the current foundry guidelines. If you want those changed I suggest taking it to the admin...

[Evil DIMwit]

It's not that maps need to be equally playable on all setting, but they must accommodate all settings without being utterly broken or imbalanced. In this case, there's no problem; there are plenty of maps with significant auto-deploys, and I assure you that it makes a difference even on unlimited reinforcements.

[theBastard]

o.k. but why you want have all maps playable in various gameplay settings? I think it could be better to build map for it´s settings. it is impossible to do good balance for all settings...

[theBastard]

I think we should go with this version. maybe some changes will be at names of regions. so now set up the bonuses, I think.

Click image to enlarge.

[porkenbeans]

Well, you may have a point, but such are the current foundry guidelines. If you want those changed I suggest taking it to the admin...

I will use an automobile analogy.
-There are many types of cars. From sports cars, to SUV's, to Fiestivas, ...etc. If the Auto industry took our Foundry's guidelines, and incorporated it into their industry,

...we would all end up driving mini-vans.

[Evil DIMwit]

Well, you may have a point, but such are the current foundry guidelines. If you want those changed I suggest taking it to the admin...

I will use an automobile analogy.
-There are many types of cars. From sports cars, to SUV's, to Fiestivas, ...etc. If the Auto industry took our Foundry's guidelines, and incorporated it into their industry,

...we would all end up driving mini-vans.

Well, if you've got a suggestion, feel free to lodge it in the Tips & Discussions forum.

More on-topic, I like how this map is coming along, but I'd like it if you differentiated your bonus colors more. In many cases where there are two shades of the same color, it's difficult to tell which territories belong to which. Also, the Principality of Rugen looks very close to the Duchy of Samogiria.

[theBastard]

More on-topic, I like how this map is coming along, but I'd like it if you differentiated your bonus colors more. In many cases where there are two shades of the same color, it's difficult to tell which territories belong to which. Also, the Principality of Rugen looks very close to the Duchy of Samogiria.

when you look at older versions of map there were bigger difference between colours. but in "Map Ideas" I get some advices to do colours of the higher bonus (Kingdom of Poland - Duchy of Greater Poland/Duchy of Mazovia) closer.

no problem to do them more different...

thanks fo advice.