Lunar War [GP, G, X] files on p.1

[natty dread]

Ok, actuallu the crater marked as Gassendi should be Byrgius. I found a great map, I wish we'd had this from the start: http://www.wwu.edu/depts/skywise/moon/moonmap_lg.jpg

I'll check if we have any other misnamed craters...

The crater east of Medii should be Godin, according to this.

[natty dread]

Okay here's what I came up with:

1) Move the Gassendi He3 mine over to Stevinus
2) Add Humorum Missile Base between Mare Humorum and Magnus
3) Swap IN1 with RU2 and
4) Move JP2 in that area between those 3 mares and connect it to all three (Nectarus, Tranqu.,and Fecun.)

This will I believe will:
1) make it a little easier for players to traverse the southern frontier easier,
2) Allow India closer access to a missile base
3) Give the Russian player access to the west side of the moon,
4) Make the He3 mine objective a little harder to achieve,
5) Give Japan access to a missile base

If I'm right, now all countries will have equal access to all missile bases and mines (unless I missed something). How do you think this will work?

Shit, I only now noticed your post Isaiah... I was wondering when you're going to post them and came to the thread and saw you already did... duh

Ok, so... #1 and #2 sounds good... but I'd suggest connecting the Humorum base also to Tycho. Both of the other bases are also connected to 3 territories, so... It makes sense this one should also be. #3 sounds good too.

But #4... This would connect JP2 and US2 to the same mare. I don't think it's good to connect several landing sites to the same mare (or any other territory). Is this really necessary anyway, since if Humorum base will be added and it connects to Humorum then JP1 will already have access to a missile base?

So I'd suggest doing #1-#3, but leaving JP2 where it is.

Also, for the Humorum base... There's a huge crater next to Tycho and Magnus called Longomontanus (I think we had this crater in the map previously) which would make for a good place for the base, and a good name too, we'd call it Longomontanus base.

Similarly... Nectaris base could be called Fracastorius base, as there is this another huge crater exactly at the location of the base, called Fracastorius. I think since Roris base is named by the Sinus that is no longer featured in the map, I thought it'd be nice to name the other bases with features that aren't already in the map - this way we get more of the moon features featured and thus more authenticity for the map.

How does this sound?

[ender516]

Your naming plan is good. Using more distinct names (rather than repeating them) is a definite plus: why risk player confusion between Mare Humorum and Humorum Missile Base?

[Teflon Kris]

I'm looking forward to seeing these changes guys - good work

[isaiah40]

Looking at it again natty, I will say I agree with you on all accounts.

[natty dread]

Ok then! In that case I will get to work

[natty dread]

Here is the update. I hope I did everything correctly, if I forgot anything just let me know...

This is v.19 btw.

Click image to enlarge.

[isaiah40]

I forgot something, Magnus needs to be put down as a 3 neutral from a 2.

[natty dread]

I thought about that too... but then again, RU1 has to go through 2 territories, with 4 troops in them... Now 2 territories with 4 troops should technically be the same as 1 territory with 5 troops: you need to leave 1 troop behind for each territory... so even if you lose 1 less troop it will be offset by having to leave behind 1 more troop...

Well, it's not a big deal, 1 troop here or there... I can change it either way, I think it'll be fine whether it's 2 or 3.

One thing though... US has very heavy access to mines while CH has a very weak one. How about swapping US1 with CH1?

[isaiah40]

Swap them.

[natty dread]

Will do for the next update.

[natty dread]

Actually, now that I look at it again, swapping CH1 with US1 wouldn't be good since China wouldn't have access to missile base then.

Instead of that... Here's the best solution for all problems that I can see:

1) Swap IN1 with CH2. -> India would still have access to a base and a mine via IN2. China would gain access to franklin mine.

2) Swap US2 with SA2. -> US would have less access to bases as it's currently too strong in that aspect. SA would gain some strength, as it's a bit weak currently...

This is a very tricky map to balance, but I think it can be managed.

If anyone has any better suggestions, I'm all ears...

[yeti_c]

You know - I look at the map and I can't see what borders what... There are craters with connections - then seas and flags that have no connections... Is that because you have only drawn on a few of the connections?

If craters are inside a sea or on the shore of one, they are connected to that sea territory. Otherwise they are connected by connecting lines.

I'm gonna repost this... because it is still true - 15 pages later...

You have a mishmash of connection styles that really doesn't help you see what attacks what - as it stands - this is a "BOB only" map... (i.e. playable only with BOB)

C.

[natty dread]

I'm gonna repost this... because it is still true - 15 pages later...

You have a mishmash of connection styles that really doesn't help you see what attacks what - as it stands - this is a "BOB only" map... (i.e. playable only with BOB)

C.

How are the craters here any different than for example the train lines in vancouver or chicago? Only difference is that this map has a different ratio of territories with line connections and territories with borders.

Players seem to have no problems with such arrangement on those maps. Furthermore, there are more complicated maps than this out there, and people still play them.

[natty dread]

Anyway, to make it certain, I have added a poll to the thread. If the map is deemed too hard to understand we will reconsider the design of this map.

[MrBenn]

I'm gonna repost this... because it is still true - 15 pages later...

You have a mishmash of connection styles that really doesn't help you see what attacks what - as it stands - this is a "BOB only" map... (i.e. playable only with BOB)

C.

How are the craters here any different than for example the train lines in vancouver or chicago? Only difference is that this map has a different ratio of territories with line connections and territories with borders.

Players seem to have no problems with such arrangement on those maps. Furthermore, there are more complicated maps than this out there, and people still play them.

On city maps that use a train-line of some description, it makes sense because people know how trains work.
I don;t see any logical reason to have linear connections on the moon craters; yes the lines are clear, but it has the visual effect of creating more "territories" that are empty... Things have come a long way since I last checked up on progress, but clarity and consistency are key

[natty dread]

I don;t see any logical reason to have linear connections on the moon craters;

how about the fact that craters are... well, craters. They are round holes in the ground, not land areas with borders. Representing them with some abstract borders drawn around them would seem more illogical to me.

[porkenbeans]

Natty,
Why don't you just swap out the lines with dotted lines. Then this map will conform to what everyone is used to.

[natty dread]

Could be done... also, Isaiah, please see the gameplay ideas on the previous page and tell me what you think about that.

I refer to this post viewtopic.php?f=241&t=100634&start=315#p2560155

[porkenbeans]

I made this for you natty. You are welcomed to use it if you like. I did not have that Star Wars font, so I just used something similar to show how the title would fit.

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

Well thanks porkenbeans, I appreciate it, but frankly I don't see how I can use that...

You know, I'll probably have to tell you the same I've told a few people... a large part of the fun in mapmaking for me is that I get to figure out how to do all the graphics work myself and learn in the process. Thus I'm very often extremely reluctant to let anyone do any of the graphics work for me, when I'm working on a map... even if someone could do it better (which I'm sure there's plenty of people who could). I do appreciate all the efforts to help, but really, the process of perfecting the graphics myself and pushing myself to improve is the main enjoyment I get from mapmaking, so... I hope you understand

[porkenbeans]

Well thanks porkenbeans, I appreciate it, but frankly I don't see how I can use that...

You know, I'll probably have to tell you the same I've told a few people... a large part of the fun in mapmaking for me is that I get to figure out how to do all the graphics work myself and learn in the process. Thus I'm very often extremely reluctant to let anyone do any of the graphics work for me, when I'm working on a map... even if someone could do it better (which I'm sure there's plenty of people who could). I do appreciate all the efforts to help, but really, the process of perfecting the graphics myself and pushing myself to improve is the main enjoyment I get from mapmaking, so... I hope you understand

You told me this at the start of this project, or have you forgotten ?
You'd be welcome to work with me on this one...

Sorry it took me so long to get to it, but I figured that you should get your GP worked out first.

BTW, I do not understand why you would have any trouble using the image. You just lay your text right over it.

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

Ok, I think there's been kinda a misunderstanding... It seems you offered to help with the map at the very first page, and I told I would welcome the help... However we never (if I recall right) discussed this again afterwards, so I thought you had kinda forgotten or given up on it or something... sorry for that. I really do have a lousy memory you know...

Anyways... my graphical skills have really evolved since the start of this thread... at the time when I started this thread I wasn't too confident in my graphics skills, as I lacked experience. Now, having worked one map through to beta, though...

I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but I thought (especially since we never discussed it afterwards) that you were on the same page, as I had started to work on the graphics myself. I kinda feel bad now, for you doing all that work...

[porkenbeans]

I was waiting for you to get to GFX Workshop. I saw that you have pretty much worked out all of the GP, so I thought I would whip something up for you. I see that you are working with Isaiah now, so, I'M NOT SEEKING ANY CREDITS ON THIS MAP. But, I wish that you would consider using what I made for you. I honestly believe that it is an improvement over what you have now.

I have got to be honest with you natty, so please don't take it the wrong way. OK ?

First off, I think that you pretty much got the GP nailed. And, I have noticed that your photoshop skills are improving, but, I have got to tell you that I agree with MN. about the graphics on this map. The moon does not look spherical. It looks flat, like a cookie. I am not trying to make fun here, just describing it, with the shape that comes to mind. The biggest thing however is how the craters look. They do not look concave, but puffed up from the rest, Like islands. The color and texture is not quite right either, It does not really look like the moon, if you know what I mean.

These critiques are not by any means, meant as a dig. Just trying to be as honest and fair as I can. I really do want to see CC expand into maps that are in this jonra. Space art is very popular these days. And more so with the advent of computer graphics. Go check out some of the really cool chit people are doing. You will be amazed at just what can be achieved. I made this illustration in just a few hours, it is not all that difficult. Get some ideas, and then come back and dazzle us with something better than a flat, drab, cookie.

I took the photo of the moon that you started out with, and created a few layers so as to punch up some color and detail. That, along with a colorful Hubble photo for the background, and the lunar lander, and Hubble telescope, I was able to give the map some depth and interest.

Anyways, It is yours to use, or not use. I hope you do use it, ...but I am OK if you do not.

[natty dread]

Well, I have to thank you for your efforts but your visual representation is just not what we're looking for at the moment. Sorry for that.