[Abandoned] - Conquer National Bank

[ppgangster]

I don't know what "The Vault" and "God Emperor" will look like because of the texture with numbers on them... you know, the Cyan color or this light Orange or yellow!

"Sailorseal" name is a little too far from his spot, "God Emperor Q" could be on two rows, "The NP" and "Limey" name has a weird slash in it that should be fixed, and I was wondering about the names... what they would look like on the small size map? Should they be in bold to help? You be the judge!

I like the wood too, but could you bring the image down a little so to see the stroke (or junction) that is almost all hidden by the dynamite stick! if it is too much hassle, then leave it as is!

The green and red color could be a little brighter, that would help the readability!

I was about to comment about map#2, adding a little more light in the lower left and right top corner, but the last version you pulled up was exactly what I was imagining! Congrats!

[Tisha]

i think i'd like it more if things were straighter.. you have words tilting in all directions. just doesn't seem blueprint like..

[a.sub]

i think i'd like it more if things were straighter.. you have words tilting in all directions. just doesn't seem blueprint like..

IM NOT GAY
er-
yeah i kinda agree with you, it does seem a bit haphazard, what about the names that dont fit horizontally?

[Tisha]

i think i'd like it more if things were straighter.. you have words tilting in all directions. just doesn't seem blueprint like..

IM NOT GAY
er-
yeah i kinda agree with you, it does seem a bit haphazard, what about the names that dont fit horizontally?

i don't mean just straight.. i mean parallel to the top edge of the paper . some things can be moved a little, like gilligans gun could be moved a little, so his name can be straight

[ppgangster]

so his name can be straight (Gilligan)

Yeah, let's remember him as a happy sailor! (Not a gay one!)

[bryguy]

i think i'd like it more if things were straighter.. you have words tilting in all directions. just doesn't seem blueprint like..

IM NOT GAY
er-
yeah i kinda agree with you, it does seem a bit haphazard, what about the names that dont fit horizontally?

i don't mean just straight.. i mean parallel to the top edge of the paper . some things can be moved a little, like gilligans gun could be moved a little, so his name can be straight

I agree, with them in all directions, it does not seem blueprint like

Im fairly certain that if Led Zepp can fit in the area the territory name is, so that just needs slight rotating, and perhaps moving the army circle up so that it is closer. For gilligan, move the gun to another corner, and move the territory name over so that the N is where the gun was. For God Emperor Q, rotate the name first, and then perhaps move it down a bit if it does not fit after rotating, and then alter the dshed lines so that they fit around it.

Also, a little pet peeve I havee is that the edges of the blueprint are slanted, like a / (Just not that slanted!!), while the text is straight, like a _. Its nothing important, just a little pet peeve of mine

Oh, and I see that U.N.Blooo has half of its U hidden under blueprints

Question: Is one able to go from Twill to Vault? It appears that their is a territory in between, but I cannot tell

[a.sub]

wow that was time consuming but enjoyable in some sick sort of way
i was a moron and all the names were at diff angles to begin with so i had to do each one by hand
then i did the carts
anyone who doesnt like it can go jump off a fuc-
i mean
criticism appreciated

[a.sub]

Click image to enlarge.

[ppgangster]

I only see "Martin Ronne" overlapping his circle -top left-, and then the red font should be brighter, hard to read... maybe not the alarms and guns if you don't want, but I'd have the font at least 10-15% brighter.

It looks a lot better now that all the names are straight, good job!

[bryguy]

anyone who doesnt like it can go jump off a fuc-
i mean
criticism appreciated

It looks much better with names on correctly!

The title font is still bugging me though. It just does not seem to fit the map theme. Perhaps changing the title font to Stamp Act? Here is an example of what it might look like

Click image to enlarge.

[Danyael]

I only see "Martin Ronne" overlapping his circle -top left-, and then the red font should be brighter, hard to read... maybe not the alarms and guns if you don't want, but I'd have the font at least 10-15% brighter.

It looks a lot better now that all the names are straight, good job!

yes i agree maybe the brightness is not the problem as a commented before i can't read or see 75% of the "red" font
or i struggle to see it (must get really close to the screen to make it out

try the brightness but maybe add a black stroke to them (1px)
or a colour change but i understand if you want red due to the icons it represents


[

[dolomite13]

I like the more blueprint look ... I agree with most everyone else that the map is extremely hard to read I find myself squinting to read it. Keep going though I love the concept for this map quite a bit.

[thenobodies80]

Nice work guys!

this map is growing day by day...
I suppose that this is your current version http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=241&t=77141&start=330#p1985031
Remember to upadate the first post!

About your map:

• The dymanite has a different perspective from the rest of the map.
• Cart5, Cart6, Fuzzy have a little arrow.The arrow head sides don't match on each arrow. Try to draw them instead typing.
• The red word are not easy to read

I suppose the main foundry is not soo far...

TNBDS

[a.sub]

i suck at perspective can someone explain the dynamite thing plz?

[oaktown]

This post isn't going to be very popular, since there are already 22 pages of comments from folks who apparently dig this map, but I'm making it anyway. (Deep breath.)

So, I've got some real concerns about this map. I'm sure that it's making a lot of CC users very happy to see their names on a map, but I hope that this alone isn't going to push this map through the Foundry.

On the positive side, I like the look of the background images. Woodgrain table and pencil both nice. The blueprint looks good (though pixely in places) and it's the right idea for a bank job map. The dynamite needs work, but it's also a clever idea. And I like that you've spotlighted the center of the image, but make sure that important map features aren't lost in the dark areas (keeleeng).

That said, I'd like to see you wipe everything off the background image and start fresh, because just about everything else about the map is a miss for me. Specifically:

• The text in the legend is poorly written and poorly designed. It lacks punctuation (with the exception of an out-of-place comma), and doesn't really make sense. How does a cart kill a man? How do alarms get you? I get that guns will help you, but if each troop is a "man" how does the gun create more men? And visually it doesn't make sense with the rest of the map... it doesn't look like it's something that would be on this table.
  
• The graphic elements on the map itself miss. You can make out every pixel on the army circles, guns, and alarms. They look like they are floating above the blueprint, rather than being images printed on the paper. Making them parallel to the image edge rather than the blueprint edge removes them from the table. Is that a gun up there by Keeleeng. And why does the Vault Door have an arm?
  
• The territory titles look bad. Most are horizontal, but some aren't. And the ones that are horizontal are horizontal to the image, not the blueprint as they should be. Well, all except Happy2seeyou, which is correct. Some touch the army circles or other bad elements, some don't. There's no explanation as to why they are different colors. Some are off the map unnecessarily with arrows pointing the territory, and some names aren't even in the same room as the territory (Led Zep). Others are unreadable on the small map (Teller), which may be partly the fault of the font choice. Again, the titles don't look like they are printed on the blueprint, especially the ones that trail off the blueprint.
  
• The territory names are troublesome. I could go on all day about how gimmicky it is to name territories after users. It pains me to think that this map may have support only because folks want to see their names on a map - I'm not saying that this is the case, but I would have been more comfortable had you guys made a good map, and then put folks' names on it. This way I wonder if anybody is really looking at this map critically. And by allowing folks to stick their names on the map the territory titles don't really make any sense - the names will be funny only to those who hang around the forums. Oh, and some names shouldn't be on a map. Japs? Really? At least on the small map it's "Uaps" which isn't nearly as distasteful.
  
• Moving on to gameplay, the attack lines are problematic. Murphy (which is Kill on the small map) can attack... whom exactly? Can Andy attack Entrance? Can LMS hit Teller? Can Hyasri hit Fuzzy?
  
• Layout: Why would anybody ever bother attacking Slom? Rishad or LzrMan? Or the NP? They're all out the game. And why attack Entrance, since it starts neutral and is a -1, when you can just go around it? May as well take Entrance off the map. And since you have to take out a 5 to get to Cart 4 it will just sit there, the unchallenged property of whomever dropped it. And Twill is useless, because the only thing it leads to is a neutral 10. And there are bottlenecks everywhere - I count about 17 territories that can be held by a single point, effectively taking them out of the game.
  
• Objective: it'll only be taken when the game is pretty much over anyway. And the only player who has a shot at it is the player that gets a good drop in the vault, because if you clear everybody out of there you can sit back and watch your opponents throw themselves at two huge neutrals.

[n00blet]

This post isn't going to be very popular, since there are already 22 pages of comments from folks who apparently dig this map, but I'm making it anyway. (Deep breath.)

.........

....And the only player who has a shot at it is the player that gets a good drop in the vault, because if you clear everybody out of there you can sit back and watch your opponents throw themselves at two huge neutrals.

Well summarized...I tried to hint at these a bit, but wasn't sure it was taken exceedingly seriously. Being one of the "territories" myself, at least that clears me of being unable to see fault when I get my name on a map

At least with official word, I look forward to a huge overhaul and then onto the stamps!

[a.sub]

This post isn't going to be very popular, since there are already 22 pages of comments from folks who apparently dig this map, but I'm making it anyway. (Deep breath.)
Oaktown, i think i speak for everybody when i say that your criticism is always appreciated, even if its just you saying that this map is shit

So, I've got some real concerns about this map. I'm sure that it's making a lot of CC users very happy to see their names on a map, but I hope that this alone isn't going to push this map through the Foundry.
Yeah it was a publicity stunt and it did its job to get it far, ill be honest

On the positive side, I like the look of the background images. Woodgrain table and pencil both nice. The blueprint looks good (though pixely in places) and it's the right idea for a bank job map. The dynamite needs work, but it's also a clever idea. And I like that you've spotlighted the center of the image, but make sure that important map features aren't lost in the dark areas (keeleeng).
thanks, and ill lighten up those areas

That said, I'd like to see you wipe everything off the background image and start fresh, because just about everything else about the map is a miss for me. Specifically: really? ouch

• The text in the legend is poorly written and poorly designed. It lacks punctuation (with the exception of an out-of-place comma), and doesn't really make sense. How does a cart kill a man? How do alarms get you? I get that guns will help you, but if each troop is a "man" how does the gun create more men? And visually it doesn't make sense with the rest of the map... it doesn't look like it's something that would be on this table.
  How about i call the Guns "Thugs" and the the alarms "Guards" and say the cards are booby trapped?
  
• The graphic elements on the map itself miss. You can make out every pixel on the army circles, guns, and alarms. They look like they are floating above the blueprint, rather than being images printed on the paper. Making them parallel to the image edge rather than the blueprint edge removes them from the table. Is that a gun up there by Keeleeng. And why does the Vault Door have an arm?
  ill use a slight blur to kill the pixels and readjust them to be parallel
  idk what arm you are talking about sorry could you circle for me please
  
• The territory titles look bad. Most are horizontal, but some aren't. And the ones that are horizontal are horizontal to the image, not the blueprint as they should be. Well, all except Happy2seeyou, which is correct. Some touch the army circles or other bad elements, some don't. There's no explanation as to why they are different colors. Some are off the map unnecessarily with arrows pointing the territory, and some names aren't even in the same room as the territory (Led Zep). Others are unreadable on the small map (Teller), which may be partly the fault of the font choice. Again, the titles don't look like they are printed on the blueprint, especially the ones that trail off the blueprint.
  i completely agree and i will go through and fix the names to be more angled towards the map its self all the while i will be adjusting them to make them more liek each other in respects to their position relative to their circles
  also i thin im going to make all of them White again and just have them labeled in the XML as alarm: Teller and so on
  
• The territory names are troublesome. I could go on all day about how gimmicky it is to name territories after users. It pains me to think that this map may have support only because folks want to see their names on a map - I'm not saying that this is the case, but I would have been more comfortable had you guys made a good map, and then put folks' names on it. This way I wonder if anybody is really looking at this map critically. And by allowing folks to stick their names on the map the territory titles don't really make any sense - the names will be funny only to those who hang around the forums. Oh, and some names shouldn't be on a map. Japs? Really? At least on the small map it's "Uaps" which isn't nearly as distasteful.
  Well i think you are right, should i remove the names and use random names of actual people? do you think that might overkill any support that this has gotten? i mean i guess if it loses all its support simply because ti doesnt have ppl's names on it then maybe it isnt a great map like you said. ill have to chew this over because i think i may remove the CC user names and put legit names instead
  Also i shd mention that the small map isnt updated yet
  
• Moving on to gameplay, the attack lines are problematic. Murphy (which is Kill on the small map) can attack... whom exactly? Can Andy attack Entrance? Can LMS hit Teller? Can Hyasri hit Fuzzy?
  yeah the three way attacks means anybody can hit anybody in the three way, should i put that on the map?
  
• Layout: Why would anybody ever bother attacking Slom? Rishad or LzrMan? Or the NP? They're all out the game. And why attack Entrance, since it starts neutral and is a -1, when you can just go around it? May as well take Entrance off the map. And since you have to take out a 5 to get to Cart 4 it will just sit there, the unchallenged property of whomever dropped it. And Twill is useless, because the only thing it leads to is a neutral 10. And there are bottlenecks everywhere - I count about 17 territories that can be held by a single point, effectively taking them out of the game.
  i think i have a solution, how abotu mkaing those the guns instead, that make there is a reason for going for them
  also i think we should have the neutral count reduced because i am seeing the point you bring up, nobody would go for the neutral count
  also note that the guns and alarms start as neutral so nobody can start in the vault its self
  
• Objective: it'll only be taken when the game is pretty much over anyway. And the only player who has a shot at it is the player that gets a good drop in the vault, because if you clear everybody out of there you can sit back and watch your opponents throw themselves at two huge neutrals.

ok i like what you have said, do thank you
but i think you are looking at the old version on the old page
on that note could you make me the author of the first post or something so i dont have to bother lzrman to update this?
and on that should lzrman start on the XML or should he wait till we are done ripping our map apart

List of things to do

• lighten up the darker areas
• rewrite the sticky note from scratch
• slight blur on the army circles and guns/alrams
• Fix name orientation
• color all names white again
• fix name positions
• ponder removing usernames
• put the three way attacks on the map
• re arrange the guns/ alarms
• ponder neutral value

one again thank you oaktown oaktown

[a.sub]

ok i think i got most of the list down, suggs?

Click image to enlarge.

[thenobodies80]

I circled the "arm" on the door.
i try to explain the perspective problem with dynamite.
Now i can see the part of it (red arrow) that i couldn't see with the point of view of your map

show

Your point of view is from above....if i see the dynamte from the same point of view i can see something like this:

show

TNBDS

[a.sub]

oooh, ok, i can fix both
thx

[lostatlimbo]

I wholeheartedly agree with oaktown about using player names on the map. I was a big fan of this map in its early stages, but it seems to have gone downhill since then and that is a big part of it. Using player names strikes me as gimmicky and exclusionary. It's like a bad inside joke amongst 20 people, when your audience is several thousand. I really disliked it on the Home map, but its worse here. With home, it made some sense, but why would a bank be full of people with ridiculous nicknames? I think it kills the aesthetic.

I think you should replace the Thug/Gun names with more typical robber codenames. How about pulling a page from Reservoir Dogs and naming them Mr. Black, Mr. Yellow, etc. ?
The non-robber names could then just be normal names (Joe, Jane, Tom, etc.). And where is the Bank Manager? Why is there only one Teller in the entire bank?

That kind of segues into a bigger problem I have with the map - which is that so many of the territories seem like filler. There are far too many robbers and then a bunch of random people who seem to have no real purpose except as stepping stones.

I think this map would work much better if there were less people and more "obstacles" like alarms and locked doors.

For example, instead of the vault having a Back Door (?????????), make it harder to get into the vault. Have three consecutive territories leading up to the vault that are "Locks" - each starting with, lets say 5 neutrals each? (Think Arms Race, but to a lesser degree) And no back door - so a player can block off or be blocked into that space. Or better yet - have an "Escape Route" in the Vault - with 10 neutrals (as if the robbers have to drill a hole into a tunnel underground and out to the car as a Plan B)?

I still have faith in this map, but I think you've "lost the plot" so to speak. Keep the thematic value of the map in mind and I think you'll get it back on track.

That's my $.02 anyway

[LED ZEPPELINER]

gooooood all of the names are in place

[a.sub]

i think i am going to have to go with oak and lost@limbo
the names are gimmicky, corny and a cheap way to gain publicity
i will redo the names completely
i apologize to those who will no longer have their names on a map.

for the Thugs im thinking of names like
Big Eddy
Smalls
Bait
etc.

for the alarms im thinking of things like
Officer Jenkins
Guard George
Private Frank
Inspector Paul

for teh standard people i will do things like
Teller
Manager
Janitor

the bank wont be open so there wont be any "customers"

[dolomite13]

I love the map, but agree that if the bank is being robbed at night then you should have no people but guards. Make everything else locations. Not just room names you could use thungs like "desk", "file cabinet" ... places robbers could hide from the guards and sneak about the bank... Unless you put my name on the map that is...

Just my 2 cents worth...



--D



p.s. Just Kidding about the my name thing

[rjz115dude]

Hey, I really enjoy this map. It looks like it has good gameplay, and this could be a really popular map on the site. But my only problem is that aren't colors on real blueprints of maps so why should there be colors on you map? If the colors are for only aesthetic reasons than i think you should just get rid of the colors all together. Blue and white should be the only colors on this map.