Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [16.01.14] V45 Fixes

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Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [16.01.14] V45 Fixes

Postby cairnswk on Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:37 pm

1588 - Spanish Armada

ImageImageImageImage Image Image
Draft: 6/7/11
Gameplay Stamp: 28/8/12
Graphics Stamped: 26/12/12
XML Stamped 22/7/13
Beta 14/8/13

Map Name: 1588 - Spanish Armada
Mapmaker: cairnswk
XML: nolefan5311

Number of Territories: 229, starting positions 48 (possibility for 12 players of 4 each)
Special Features: Classic gameplay, Bombardments, Ranged Attacks, Starting Neutrals
Fonts: Serifa BT (map) , Book Antiqua (legend), Monotype Corsiva (Title, Headings, Annotations)
Software: Fireworks CS3, text - Illustrator CS3
What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made:It is a classic battle that deserves a place on this site.
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Map Size:As of V31 -
Small - 920W x 775H:
Large - 1023W x 864H:

Current V45 Small
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Click image to enlarge.
image


show: Test 88s for V39 xml


show: Test 888s for V39 xml


Version 42 with neutrals and start positions (propsed)
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show: CB Versions


show: Previous Versions




Nomeclature
Beacons -> Beacon Penzance, Beacon Eddystone, Beacon Plymouth etc....
Treasury -> Sir Martin Frobisher M1, Sir Martin Frobisher T1, Sir Martin Frobisher T3, Sir Martin Frobisher T4, Sir Martin Frobisher T5
Command Vessels -> Santa Ana Stern, Santa Ana Bow
Land Bases -> Truro LB, Penzance LB, etc, with exception of LB Army Brussel
Supply Ships -> SS Banzana, SS David etc.


Gameplay:
Players naturally battle conquer neutrals to activate bonuses, and then can fight over battle grounds as marked in the bonus section.
A feature of gameplay for any player starting on the British areas is the lighting of the land beacons, and subsequent gaining of the bonuses. Beacons can be lit only from open-top squares or from one-way arrows from another beacon.
  • Impassable are the blue areas of sea as marked; trees, and non-white sections of the command vessels.
  • SS = Supply Ship
  • LB = Land Base
  • LA - Land Army
  • M = Monarch
  • T = Treasury
  • The Treasury squares are named based on the owner (shield at top of column) and level of treasury conquered i.e. Medrano +1T,+3T,+4T,+5T
  • The Monarch square is named based on the owner (shield at top of column) and +1M
  • All other vessels and territories have their own names - classic style, with Command Vessels occupying two territories Bow and Stern
  • Each player starts with:
      a Monarch territory e.g. Medrano +1M
      a Supply Ship or Supply Base e.g. SS Bazana
      Captaincy of one half of a Command Vessel e.g. Capitania Bow
      and one other ship e.g. Diana
  • Each player's Monarch territory can assault sideways to build-up their treasury.
  • Treasury units (armies) can assault (and fort):
      sideways one-way (to build bonuses)
      from any treasury square to same player's Command Vessel (both Bow and Stern)
      from any treasury square to same player's Supply Ship
      from any treausry square to same player's Land Base (if applicable)
  • Each Command Vessel:
      must hold both Bow and Stern of each vessel to gain that Bonus
      from both Bow and Stern, can assault adjacent regions any player's Monarch square
  • The Losing Condition: Players failing to hold any non-treasury region and either bow or stern of a Command Ship will be eliminated
  • Starting Numbers:
      There are 229 (i think from preliminary xml count) territories on this map - outside the golden number range.
      However, most of these will start neutral, with the exception of the starting territories.
      Starting Neutrals: 181
      On the Monarch and Treasury seection, neutrals are 6,5,7,8,9 respectively - these once conquered provide the armies (money) to bolster your conquering abilities.
      On the map, neutrals are mostly 1, with the exception of 2s to help balance gameplay by making it harder to conquer command ships early in the game.

      Starting positions:48
      2P-16 / 7P-4
      3P-16 / 8P-4
      4P-12 / 9P-4
      5P-8 / 10P-4
      6P-8 / 11P-4
      12P-4

      There are 4 starting territories per player and there is a range of 12 players on this map.


Aims/design style: The influence for this map was to enhance the sea warfare maps (for those fans/players) on CC. I also have a great interest in this period of English history which is being expanded while i discover the influences of the French Calvinists and the Massacre at Paris of St Batholomew's Day. The design is somewhat already in place with the heavy English Tudor border featuring the English Rose in wood colours. With the exception of the blue sea, all colours should revolve around those from the border.

Versions & Initial Draft:
Only Versions 2,5, 7 and 9 are available before re-design.
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Last edited by cairnswk on Wed Jan 15, 2014 3:32 pm, edited 125 times in total.
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588

Postby grifftron on Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:15 pm

You make it look so easy... great start! Interesting to see what some will say about using the squares but it think its great.

-griff
‹army of nobunaga› me and so many other people including people in your own clan look at you as a joke
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588

Postby Victor Sullivan on Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:48 am

I like the concept, but I see many flaws...

  • Overall, the map is quite bland in gameplay. There aren't any substantial bonuses, aside from the simple territory bonus and the weak beacon bonus. The only real gameplay feature here is the attack routes.
  • For the attack routes, no need to have an elaborate explanation like yours, just say each square can attack with range 2, it's the same thing :)
  • I noticed you put "Bombardments - To be discussed" on the map. I'm wondering if maybe you could do something like "squares assault with range 1 and bombard with range 2" so it's like, you can only sail into an adjacent square, but you can fire your cannons farther.
  • Could you elaborate on the starting positions? Because, if everyone starts in the same general place, people aren't going to venture out into the open, especially if there's no compensation for doing so. People will likely just go for the early elimination.
  • The beacons seem slightly out of place due to the lack of gameplay elsewhere, but I see their legitimacy. The bonus is awful small for it to be worth it, since there's no way out of the chain of one-ways (or so I've understood it to be) all troops spent on that chain are lost, essentially. I suggest making it a +X per Y beacons lit. So, I'm thinking +1 per 2, +7 for all. If you'd prefer it to be lower, you could do +1 per 3, +5 for all, as well.
  • Is there supposed to be a difference between the white-outlined blue squares, the orange-outlined blue territories, and the orange-outlined orange territories?
  • I'm not sure either objective you've listed will necessarily work, I'm afraid. I just don't see how they could work as it stands.
To summarize my thoughts, I think it needs a lot of work, but it has a lot of potential. :)

-Sully
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588

Postby theBastard on Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:12 am

I like the idea (also your Battle of Traffalgar).

- what about to add to English Channel any ships? the square (water) could assault only adjacent squares. the ships (only Spanish?) could assault up to two squares and bombardments another ship.

- there were also some battles in Channel, so they can add any bonus like Beacons...?

- what about Isles in Channel? as impassable...
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:07 am

theBastard wrote:....- what about Isles in Channel? as impassable...

which isles are you referrring to tB?
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:08 am

Victor Sullivan wrote:I like the concept, but I see many flaws...
...
-Sully

Sully, i'm examining your list and working on some of those...i'll post something more substantial later.
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588

Postby theBastard on Sat Jun 25, 2011 8:51 am

cairnswk wrote:[
which isles are you referrring to tB?


error :lol: your map does not cover area with isles...
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588

Postby cairnswk on Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:59 am

theBastard wrote:
cairnswk wrote:[
which isles are you referrring to tB?


error :lol: your map does not cover area with isles...

no worries tB :)
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588

Postby cairnswk on Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:09 am

grifftron wrote:You make it look so easy... great start! Interesting to see what some will say about using the squares but it think its great.

-griff

Thanks grifftron.
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Re: The Spanish Armada 1588

Postby cairnswk on Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:19 am

Victor Sullivan wrote:I like the concept, but I see many flaws...

  • Overall, the map is quite bland in gameplay. There aren't any substantial bonuses, aside from the simple territory bonus and the weak beacon bonus. The only real gameplay feature here is the attack routes.
  • For the attack routes, no need to have an elaborate explanation like yours, just say each square can attack with range 2, it's the same thing :)

thanks Sully for some ideas.
Not perfect yet, but i have added some supply ships, lead vessels, and battles for bonuses.
The attack route thing i'd prefer to leave as a graphic, just so that i am not asked for it later. Perhaps i'll need to do one for the bombardments also later.

  • I noticed you put "Bombardments - To be discussed" on the map. I'm wondering if maybe you could do something like "squares assault with range 1 and bombard with range 2" so it's like, you can only sail into an adjacent square, but you can fire your cannons farther.

  • That's on the map now, but may need adjusting later.

  • Could you elaborate on the starting positions? Because, if everyone starts in the same general place, people aren't going to venture out into the open, especially if there's no compensation for doing so. People will likely just go for the early elimination.

  • Starting positions...as always up for grabs. Now there are some bonuses on the sea that would improve movement incentive.
    Land bonuses need placement, and i'm thinking resources scattered throughout the land for that...to be added.

  • The beacons seem slightly out of place due to the lack of gameplay elsewhere, but I see their legitimacy. The bonus is awful small for it to be worth it, since there's no way out of the chain of one-ways (or so I've understood it to be) all troops spent on that chain are lost, essentially. I suggest making it a +X per Y beacons lit. So, I'm thinking +1 per 2, +7 for all. If you'd prefer it to be lower, you could do +1 per 3, +5 for all, as well.

  • Changed. I think we can discuss the x for y lit amount later again, but for now it is there.

  • Is there supposed to be a difference between the white-outlined blue squares, the orange-outlined blue territories, and the orange-outlined orange territories?

  • Yes, that is stated now what they are...i am thinking there could be a bonus structure associated wth them also, you know 15 for +5 or something similar.

  • I'm not sure either objective you've listed will necessarily work, I'm afraid. I just don't see how they could work as it stands.
  • To summarize my thoughts, I think it needs a lot of work, but it has a lot of potential. :)
    -Sully

    The objective has been removed for now and left as Invade England. Perhaps it can be re-instated later, see what the people think.

    Thanks for your initial comments. Great assistance! :)
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    Re: The Spanish Armada 1588

    Postby cairnswk on Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:22 am

    theBastard wrote:I like the idea (also your Battle of Traffalgar).

    - what about to add to English Channel any ships? the square (water) could assault only adjacent squares. the ships (only Spanish?) could assault up to two squares and bombardments another ship.

    - there were also some battles in Channel, so they can add any bonus like Beacons...?

    - what about Isles in Channel? as impassable...


    Thanks tB...
    Some ships have been added as bonuses to the Channel. Assault adjacent squares is there, but bombardment for 2 is there also.
    The battles have also been addded. Thanks for great ideas. :)
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    Re: The Spanish Armada 1588

    Postby theBastard on Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:27 am

    cairnswk wrote:
    Thanks tB...
    Some ships have been added as bonuses to the Channel. Assault adjacent squares is there, but bombardment for 2 is there also.
    The battles have also been addded. Thanks for great ideas. :)


    looking good. :P

    - maybe battle sites are a little too big?
    - maybe add one more named ship and delete supply ships?
    - what about when only ships (squares of ships) could bombardment for 2?
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    Re: The Spanish Armada 1588

    Postby pamoa on Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:28 pm

    Victor Sullivan wrote:Could you elaborate on the starting positions? Because, if everyone starts in the same general place, people aren't going to venture out into the open, especially if there's no compensation for doing so. People will likely just go for the early elimination.

    cairnswk wrote:Starting positions...as always up for grabs. Now there are some bonuses on the sea that would improve movement incentive.
    Land bonuses need placement, and i'm thinking resources scattered throughout the land for that...to be added.

    hi cairnswk
    you choose a nice bit of history here
    initial graphics great
    theme: you choose to put the accent on the last part of the sea campaign not just the battle which is a very original approach
    but your gameplay isn't going with it
    you try a similar two side gameplay as in arms race but there you have the mean to cross the gap between the two part (+60 bonus)
    and the way to reach the other side is relatively short compared to your map
    maybe you should rethink your starting position set-up
    what about Spanish ships and maybe also some British land territories behind the battle zones
    on the other hand I know you are wishing to keep some historical time line...?
    de gueules à la tour d'argent ouverte, crénelée de trois pièces et donjonnée d'un donjon ajouré, crénelé de deux pièces
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    Re: The Spanish Armada 1588

    Postby cairnswk on Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:36 pm

    pamoa wrote:hi cairnswk
    you choose a nice bit of history here
    initial graphics great

    thanks pamoa :)

    theme: you choose to put the accent on the last part of the sea campaign not just the battle which is a very original approach
    but your gameplay isn't going with it
    you try a similar two side gameplay as in arms race but there you have the mean to cross the gap between the two part (+60 bonus)
    and the way to reach the other side is relatively short compared to your map
    maybe you should rethink your starting position set-up
    what about Spanish ships and maybe also some British land territories behind the battle zones
    on the other hand I know you are wishing to keep some historical time line...?


    Pamoa, i've done this image to try to explain what i was hoping to achieve with gameplay.
    yes i want to achieve some historical time line...in particular the spanish should be able to work their way towards a goal of sorts where San Martin is, and that is why i have given such a broad avenue for whoever start down south to move through.
    Yes, i will have some british bonuses in there on England, just have to do some research on that.
    Also, i think perhaps a couple more small Spanish vessel bonuses would not go astray.
    Can you explain the "gap between the two parts" bit in your previous post a bit further please. I'm think i am only getting part of that.
    Also do you have some suggestions for the starting postiions.
    Click image to enlarge.
    image
    Last edited by cairnswk on Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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    Re: The Spanish Armada 1588 - V2

    Postby cairnswk on Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:05 pm

    I'm thinking of having "Faith" metres on this map...Catholic as opposed to Anglican...perfect for the period.
    Is this religious facet allowed in CC?
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