[Abandoned] - Exodus

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[Abandoned] - Exodus

Postby isaiah40 on Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:22 am

It is 1400 B.C.E and God has commissioned you to lead His people out of Egypt to the Promised Land. Your job is to lead them out and eliminate all obstacles that stand in your way! But be careful as the people are a hard bunch and you'll end up wandering around the desert for 40 years.

Map of Israel and the Exodus from Egypt
Number of territories - 70 including:
- Red Sea Crossing as a killer neutral resetting to 3 at the start of your turn
- 10 Commandments and Ark of the Covenant and Golden Calf
- Moses, Aaron and Pharaoh

8 Starting positions the rest being neutral

Snakes which have a -1 every turn

Build your own bonus

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Last edited by thenobodies80 on Thu Nov 03, 2011 7:03 pm, edited 39 times in total.
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Re: Exodus

Postby Ray Rider on Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:35 am

I like it that you have Mt. Sinai at the more logical location rather than the traditional one. Looks great so far! Definitely a rough draft though ;)
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Re: Exodus

Postby grifftron on Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:51 am

love it, just interested on what the bonuses will turn out to be. Good luck on this project, i will be following.

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Re: Exodus

Postby skeletonboy on Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:26 pm

Whats the difference between the green and the brown roads?
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Re: Exodus

Postby zimmah on Thu Feb 11, 2010 1:33 pm

the brown roads are muddy, and the green ones are grassy.

anyways, nice map.
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Re: Exodus

Postby Rih0 on Thu Feb 11, 2010 3:06 pm

Seems good. some roads seems too big. There's nohing in their middle tha can make it "specialler"? Keep doing, I know this will be a great map if you work hard on it
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Re: Exodus

Postby Industrial Helix on Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:00 pm

Hmm... I like the general graphical approach.

I don't like the lack of territories. Once again, I personally do not favor lines though I see how it could work for aspects of this map.

To be honest though.. I can't make heads or tails of the gameplay without a legend.
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Re: Exodus

Postby isaiah40 on Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:06 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:Hmm... I like the general graphical approach.

I don't like the lack of territories. Once again, I personally do not favor lines though I see how it could work for aspects of this map.

To be honest though.. I can't make heads or tails of the gameplay without a legend.


I'll be posting the updated version here shortly!! Stay tuned!
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Re: Exodus

Postby isaiah40 on Thu Feb 11, 2010 4:55 pm

Here is the new version with bonuses and MORE territories!!

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Re: Exodus

Postby grifftron on Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:28 pm

now thats better, what are the bonuses for holding things around the plagues? and is there a victory goal on the map?

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Re: Exodus

Postby Industrial Helix on Thu Feb 11, 2010 9:52 pm

OK, that helps. I don't understand why anyone would attack a plague though unless they absolutely had to. I'm not sure that their place is on the map either.

Perhaps something could be worked out where the plagues are off map and there is a penalty for holding a plague and and egyptian territory.
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Re: Exodus

Postby isaiah40 on Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:13 pm

grifftron wrote:now thats better, what are the bonuses for holding things around the plagues? and is there a victory goal on the map?

-griff


I'm still researching for other Egyptian cities from this time frame. so far no go. I had thought of a victory condition of holding the Israelite route, but decided against that because it is to hard to hold.

Industrial Helix wrote:OK, that helps. I don't understand why anyone would attack a plague though unless they absolutely had to. I'm not sure that their place is on the map either.

Perhaps something could be worked out where the plagues are off map and there is a penalty for holding a plague and and egyptian territory.


Can you please explain? Do you mean they should be off to the side of the map?

I had thought of giving a bonus for holding 9 plagues (since First Born Dead is a killer neutral), like maybe a +6 to help offset losing a man a turn?

A penalty like -2 for holding a Egyptian city and a plague?

How about -1 for holding 3 plagues?

Personally I would like to keep the plagues on the map to show that they were all over Egypt.

People would attack a plague to receive their armies. I don't know, do you have any ideas and/or suggestions?
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Re: Exodus V1.1, pg.1

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:09 am

Well, the thing you're conveying with putting them on the map is that they were in a specific area of Egypt, not all over.

What I mean is that the plagues could be off map and a force of their own. I dunno, it's hard to explain without just designing the map. I think that something along the lines of the proposed Trojan War map would work much better. Where there are two sphere's of activity, the heavenly and earthly.

viewtopic.php?f=242&t=18629&hilit=trojan+war

Maybe you could throw some important people in there as well, Moses, Aaron and (was it?) Ramses. Plus, the Ark of the Covenant, Ten commandments, Crossing the red sea. These are paths to activity in the heavenly sphere. The more I think of it, you've got an epic story to tell and but right now it's starting to look like Route 66 with different names.

Another possibility would be to add the Egyptian pantheon in there as well. One God and ten plagues versus all 10 key Egyptian deity figures. I mean, each plague was a response to the supposed authority that each Egyptian god had so this could be a cool function of the game. For example, Darkness one way attacks Ra the Sun God, Blood to Water attacks Hapi, Locusts attack Seth, Death of the first born attack Pharaoh.

Of course, the path to the God attacks Egyptian gods would be something like the Ark of the Covenant or Moses or Aaron.

That's what I'm thinking.
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Re: Exodus V1.1, pg.1

Postby isaiah40 on Fri Feb 12, 2010 10:55 am

Industrial Helix wrote:Well, the thing you're conveying with putting them on the map is that they were in a specific area of Egypt, not all over.

Would it help if I did not have them connected to certain cities, but put in the legend that they are a two-way attack to all Egyptian cities?

What I mean is that the plagues could be off map and a force of their own. I dunno, it's hard to explain without just designing the map. I think that something along the lines of the proposed Trojan War map would work much better. Where there are two sphere's of activity, the heavenly and earthly.

viewtopic.php?f=242&t=18629&hilit=trojan+war

Maybe you could throw some important people in there as well, Moses, Aaron and (was it?) Ramses. Plus, the Ark of the Covenant, Ten commandments, Crossing the red sea. These are paths to activity in the heavenly sphere. The more I think of it, you've got an epic story to tell and but right now it's starting to look like Route 66 with different names.

Yes I am going to put more in like those you mentioned plus some others. Yea Route 66 came to mind, but I positively did not want to go in that direction.

It wasn't Ramses. This is what I found when doing my research:
The latest scarab found at Kahun was of Neferhoptep, who was apparently the pharaoh that was ruling when the Israelite slaves suddenly left Kahun and fled from Egypt in the exodus. According to Manetho, he was the last king to rule before the Hyksos occupied Egypt 'without a battle'. Without a battle? Where was the Egyptian army? It was at the bottom of the Red Sea (Exodus 14:28). This pharaohs mummy has never been found!
So maybe I can do another inset of Raamses with Neferhoptep, Moses and Aaron for a bonus of +3 for holding all four?

With regards to the 10 Commandments, how about an inset of Mt. Sinai and have something like follow the 10 Commandments and find favor with God for +5? Also if you you hold all of the commandments and the Ark of the Covenant a bonus of +7?

The Red Sea I was thinking of having it as a killer neutral. I think that would be appropriate since the Egyptian were killed there. I don't know how I can fit it in, so I'll just have to play around with it.

Another possibility would be to add the Egyptian pantheon in there as well. One God and ten plagues versus all 10 key Egyptian deity figures. I mean, each plague was a response to the supposed authority that each Egyptian god had so this could be a cool function of the game. For example, Darkness one way attacks Ra the Sun God, Blood to Water attacks Hapi, Locusts attack Seth, Death of the first born attack Pharaoh.

Of course, the path to the God attacks Egyptian gods would be something like the Ark of the Covenant or Moses or Aaron.

That's what I'm thinking.


These are all GREAT ideas IH! Thank you! I will play around and see what I can fit in and still maintain some clarity.
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Re: Exodus V1.1, pg.1

Postby isaiah40 on Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:28 pm

Here is Version 1.2 with (hopefully) some good changes with added strategy!

Changes done:
- Removed plagues from Egypt and set them down in legend area with an explanation of the attack routes
- Added 10 Commandments and Ark of the Covenant as a side box to Mt. Sinai with a +2 bonus for holding all
- Added Moses, Aaron and Nerphtoptep to Raamses with a + 3 bonus for holding all
- Added 5 more Egyptian cities
- Added Snakes with a -1 army if held
These are the only changes so far!

Need to do:
Add a Killer neutral for the Red Sea.
Hmmm ... Need more suggestions and ideas!!

Without further ado, here is the latest and ... well just the latest version!

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Re: Exodus V1.2, pg.1

Postby isaiah40 on Sat Feb 13, 2010 12:37 pm

Changed Pihahiroth to Red Sea Crossing and made it a killer neutral.

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Re: Exodus V1.3, pg.2

Postby Industrial Helix on Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:56 pm

Wow... those Jews got lost indeed.

I think an Egyptian pursuit route might work nicely. It'll follow the first leg of Israel's journey but perhaps with a little investigative cartography you can find some areas the Egyptians were likely to have been for provisions, ect. The Egyptian route can be the long way to the Red Sea.

And since your legend conflicts with your map, the Red Sea looks like a lake rather than part of the Red sea. I think labels on the sea might be appropriate for this map as well. Nothing fancy, perhaps a light blue on the dark blue. You could label it in Hebrew or Egyptian as well to give the map a little ethnic flavor.

The other leg of the Red Sea where Suez is looks a little strange. I believe there is a lake there where you're dark lines are but this could be clarified.

Nebo is a mountain, yeah? You should illustrate this.

Memphis is the capital of Ancient Egypt... why are the Jews leaving from Succoth? Trivial question really.

For the Red Sea Crossing... you should make "the waters like a wall" and put the army space in the center of it. You might have to expand that prong of the Red Sea though.

My favorite thing about this map are the mountain graphics and the little Egyptian Pyramids of Giza. But, they do not match. I favor making the pyramids a sepia tone like the mountains and perhaps adding some similar style of shading to them on the Western sides.

Speaking of pyramids, there were 80 of them along the Nile. Perhaps Giza shouldn't be the only place getting special graphical treatment. Heliopolis, Memphis, ect could also use some graphics rather than dots. You've got a nice idea going with this little graphical designations and I think expanding them would be a great idea. An actual Ark of the Covenent, 10 Commandments, and perhaps illustrations for the plagues would be real cool as well.

The legend needs some organization. Move the black text so its more compactly against the right side. Keep your army dots in vertical line. The killer neutral info about First Born should be moved into the black text where it refers to it.

Neferhotep ought to be labeled Pharaoh imo because its unclear who he was without prior knowledge.

I like where this grapahical theme is going... you're going for drawing on Papyrus, yes? Well the Papyrus looks single-filter photoshop tacky. Do a search for some high res blank papyrus and use that. See the grunge tutorial for more advice. If you can't find any, I picked up some blank pages when I was in Cairo. They're pretty big but I can get you a clear photo or scan.

Further exasperating the tackiness, forgive me but it's best to be honest imo, are the beveled lines, especially the bright green. I think lines in the style of pen drawing would be better for this map and for Israel's journey you could use a toned down red or sepia or even a style variation of a black line such as dotted, dashed, hatched, ect.

Anyway, looking forward to the next iteration of this map, keep up the good work!
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Re: Exodus V1.3, pg.2

Postby isaiah40 on Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:55 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:Wow... those Jews got lost indeed.

I wouldn't lost as more not allowed to enter the promised land for 40 years.

I think an Egyptian pursuit route might work nicely. It'll follow the first leg of Israel's journey but perhaps with a little investigative cartography you can find some areas the Egyptians were likely to have been for provisions, ect. The Egyptian route can be the long way to the Red Sea.

It could be done, I have a lot here already so it would have to not detract from the map in any way.

And since your legend conflicts with your map, the Red Sea looks like a lake rather than part of the Red sea. I think labels on the sea might be appropriate for this map as well. Nothing fancy, perhaps a light blue on the dark blue. You could label it in Hebrew or Egyptian as well to give the map a little ethnic flavor.

I guess I could have the Red Sea continue into the legend area but just have it really subdued so you can read the legend. Sea labels in Hebrew or Egyptian? Sounds good, maybe I can find some ancient writing to use for them.

The other leg of the Red Sea where Suez is looks a little strange. I believe there is a lake there where you're dark lines are but this could be clarified.

Yea I think I will remove that outline so that it is just a river.

Nebo is a mountain, yeah? You should illustrate this.

Hmmm ... I don't think so but I'll take a closer look at it.

Memphis is the capital of Ancient Egypt... why are the Jews leaving from Succoth? Trivial question really.

From my research, that is where Moses gather the people before they took off across the desert. It was also the point where Pharaoh staged his army before they left for war going east.

For the Red Sea Crossing... you should make "the waters like a wall" and put the army space in the center of it. You might have to expand that prong of the Red Sea though.

I like it. I'll see what I can do to enhance that area!

My favorite thing about this map are the mountain graphics and the little Egyptian Pyramids of Giza. But, they do not match. I favor making the pyramids a sepia tone like the mountains and perhaps adding some similar style of shading to them on the Western sides.

:oops: Yes they should have been that way, will work on this as well.

Speaking of pyramids, there were 80 of them along the Nile. Perhaps Giza shouldn't be the only place getting special graphical treatment. Heliopolis, Memphis, ect could also use some graphics rather than dots. You've got a nice idea going with this little graphical designations and I think expanding them would be a great idea. An actual Ark of the Covenent, 10 Commandments, and perhaps illustrations for the plagues would be real cool as well.

How about using the pyramids as the army circles for the Egyptian cities instead of the circles? It would give it a more Egyptian feel. Yeas, no?

The legend needs some organization. Move the black text so its more compactly against the right side. Keep your army dots in vertical line. The killer neutral info about First Born should be moved into the black text where it refers to it.

Totally agree here, I was just talking with WM about this as well. I will work at getting all the important info together in one place as much as possible.

Neferhotep ought to be labeled Pharaoh imo because its unclear who he was without prior knowledge.

Yes i had thought of this before you mentioned it. It will be done.

I like where this grapahical theme is going... you're going for drawing on Papyrus, yes? Well the Papyrus looks single-filter photoshop tacky. Do a search for some high res blank papyrus and use that. See the grunge tutorial for more advice. If you can't find any, I picked up some blank pages when I was in Cairo. They're pretty big but I can get you a clear photo or scan.

Yes that is what I was going after. Did I come close? I'll do some looking around to see what I can come up with.

Further exasperating the tackiness, forgive me but it's best to be honest imo, are the beveled lines, especially the bright green. I think lines in the style of pen drawing would be better for this map and for Israel's journey you could use a toned down red or sepia or even a style variation of a black line such as dotted, dashed, hatched, ect.

I would rather have someone be honest and say something rather than not say anything until very late in the foundry process :evil: So I appreciate your honesty! :D I'll work on this aspect and see what I can come up with.

Anyway, looking forward to the next iteration of this map, keep up the good work!

That you! This map will take a lot of work, so I thin it will be well worth the effort WHEN it gets quenched :D
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Re: Exodus V1.3, pg.2

Postby isaiah40 on Sat Feb 13, 2010 5:58 pm

Changes made:
- Changed army circles for Egyptian cities to pyramids
- Rearranged legend so it is all together
- Placed all game play instructions in the same box
- Made hopefully what looks a little like the Red Sea parted
- Redrew river to make it narrower
- Redid outline of land so it is not as thick
- Eliminated 1 territory, so we are now down to 68 territories instead of 69

Need to do:
- Darken left side of pyramids to match mountains
- Redo background texture

Here it is!

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Lieutenant isaiah40
 
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Re: Exodus V1.4, pg.2

Postby isaiah40 on Tue Feb 16, 2010 11:13 pm

Okay here are the remainder of the changes I needed to do:
- Darkened the left side of the pyramids
- Reduced the attack routes down and changed the Israelite's journey to a subdued red
- Added in a snake on a pole for the snakes territory
- Added in the 10 Commandments tablets
- Added in Ark of the Covenant
- Changed Raamses pyramid to an off red
- Changed the legend around a little more for a better fit
- Replaced the background with a new one that looks a little more like papyrus
- Added in the ancient Hebrew Hieroglyphics for the Mediterranean Sea and Red Seas
- Added in bonus of +1 for every 3 plagues held

Need to do:
I'm lost for now, please I need more suggestions and ideas! This is your map to play on!

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Lieutenant isaiah40
 
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Re: Exodus V1.5, pg.2

Postby grifftron on Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:13 am

Things I was wondering about were

1)Why does the first born have to be reset every time? Who is gonna want it, whats the point of having it when you can just take other plagues for bonuses? Am i missing something?

2) As for the offset part with the plagues connecting to all Egyptian cities, this is for sure the way to go, but a problem i ran into with my offset on the map i have going (which i don't have any more when just made the offset become part of the map). But the problem was not having it close enough to where the connections are, this is on the other side of the map... I have no problem with it but i know people who would complain about it if they see it... something to think about i guess...

3)And the 4 drop circles Elim, Midian, Rephidim and Mt.Sinai are all very close to each other (talking about the text) I know which goes with which but it was a little confusing at first glance...Can Mt.Sinai get one of those cool looking symbols like the ark and the 10 commands have? That would be cool I think.

4)where do Pharoah, Moses and Aaron connect on this? I am missing something?

Other then that, looks great and the idea is coming out well... I have followed and played on your fracture america map and I know you are still working on the graphics on this one, waiting for the graphics to come a long as well but i know there is no reason to hurry until idea and gameplay has passed, just looking forward to see what you can do with this map... awesome work!

-griff
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Re: Exodus V1.5, pg.2

Postby isaiah40 on Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:25 am

grifftron wrote:Things I was wondering about were

1)Why does the first born have to be reset every time? Who is gonna want it, whats the point of having it when you can just take other plagues for bonuses? Am i missing something?

2) As for the offset part with the plagues connecting to all Egyptian cities, this is for sure the way to go, but a problem i ran into with my offset on the map i have going (which i don't have any more when just made the offset become part of the map). But the problem was not having it close enough to where the connections are, this is on the other side of the map... I have no problem with it but i know people who would complain about it if they see it... something to think about i guess...

3)And the 4 drop circles Elim, Midian, Rephidim and Mt.Sinai are all very close to each other (talking about the text) I know which goes with which but it was a little confusing at first glance...Can Mt.Sinai get one of those cool looking symbols like the ark and the 10 commands have? That would be cool I think.

4)where do Pharoah, Moses and Aaron connect on this? I am missing something?

Other then that, looks great and the idea is coming out well... I have followed and played on your fracture america map and I know you are still working on the graphics on this one, waiting for the graphics to come a long as well but i know there is no reason to hurry until idea and gameplay has passed, just looking forward to see what you can do with this map... awesome work!

-griff


1) I was just looking at it and I came to the same conclusion you did. I will just make it -1 like the rest. Maybe I can increase the bonus to +1 for every 2 plagues?

2) This is true, unfortunately due to needing space for the majority of the instructions, I will have to keep it there.

3) I'll see what I can do in that area. Maybe spread them out a little more.

4) In the large game play instruction box I put "Hold Raamses, Pharaoh, Moses and Aaron for +3" I put Raamses pyramid a different color and placed it in the bonus area and the box that has Moses, Aaron and Pharaoh in it. Suggestions to make it clearer?

Thank you for your comments and suggestions!
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Re: Exodus V1.5, pg.2

Postby grifftron on Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:40 am

Yeah my office is pretty bright so i did not see the red lines around the Raamses pyramid. If possible maybe mess around with diff colors or effects to make this stand out more? But i do see the connections now, just didn't at first glance...

+1 for every 2 plagues... if these are all -1, players will have to have pretty decent size armies to get these, but would they be worth it if you were getting -2 armies and only +1 every turn? i mean unless you could hold them with just a 1 troop every time which would not reset to a neutral i am guessing.. kind of like rjbeals dust bowl map... But with all of these connecting to all Egyptian cities, these are going to be hard to hold... so all i am saying is will it be worth to grab these?

-griff
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Re: Exodus V1.5, pg.2

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Feb 17, 2010 8:06 am

That's looking pretty nice... gameplay workshop quality at least. I'll post more when I get some time today.
Sketchblog [Update 07/25/11]: http://indyhelixsketch.blogspot.com/
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Re: Exodus V1.5, pg.2

Postby isaiah40 on Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:08 am

Here's the latest:
- Rearranged the legend again
- Moved the Plagues box over to the same side of the map as the Egyptian cities
- Moved the Raamses, Moses and Aaron box over to the left side
- Moved the attack route box the far right
- Resized and cleared the game play instructions box
- Swapped Midian and Elim around
- Spaced out Midian, Elim and Refidim
- Connected Snakes with 10 Commandments
- Redid Raamses pyramid so that it hopefully stands out better

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Lieutenant isaiah40
 
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Assassin Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (3) Teammate Achievement (1)
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