[Abandoned] - Secesh Heresy: Gettysburg, Day 2

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[Abandoned] - Secesh Heresy: Gettysburg, Day 2

Postby MarshalNey on Fri Jul 30, 2010 12:52 am

Final Rough Draft (Updated 8/20/10)
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show: Newer Rough Draft


show: Old Rough Draft


Bonus Regions: 112
Killer Neutral Regions: 38
Total Regions: 150

Terrain (Killer Neutral) Areas
    Terrain Neutrals: 10
    Courage Neutrals: 28
    Total Killer Neutral Regions: 38

Bonus Areas
    Total Starting Neutral: 8
      Corps HQs: 2
      Army HQs: 2
      Round Top: 2
    Total Regions for the Drop: 104
      Deployable Regions (randomly assigned): 96
      Starting Positions (Corps HQs): 8
    Total Regions: 112

The map has no impassibles, technically, but I use some low-level killer neutrals for the same purpose. In the case of the hills, I made a poor-man's one-way attack, where someone wishing to go uphill must first attack a killer neutral 2- which I call 'courage', while someone attack out from a hill may proceed normally. For stone walls and streams, I used a killer neutral 1, to indicate the impossibility of staying on such a place for long- the creeks are meant to be crossed quickly since any troops stationed there would be extremely vulnerable.

The cannon bombardments are the other major setpiece of the map. Any cannon can bombard any region within its own bonus area. In addition, the big black cannons can bombard any region in adjacent bonus areas. This is a bit like Waterloo, where a lot of the map is vulnerable to bombardment. However, about 1/3 of the map is immune- the Round Tops bonus area, Gettysburg, Devil's Den and the Federal Supply bonus area.

For region names, I used the commanders of the relevant regiment, brigade or Corps; or I used an abbreviation for a piece of terrain with a number.

The only starting neutrals on the map are the two sides' HQs- which are needed in order to collect a flags bonus- 2 Corps HQs (for balance purposes), and the top of Round Top hill, which was largely unoccupied due to an astounding lack of acumen on the part of the Confederate upper command in that sector.

I'm thinking of doing one or two other maps in the same vein and era, with "Secesh Heresy" as the current working title of the map pack. I definitely would do a Missouri map- depicting either the guerilla warfare statewide, the battle at Wilson's Creek, or the battle of Pea Ridge just over the border in Arkansas. The other map(s) I had in mind were Chickamauga, Atlanta, Shiloh (Day 1), Early's raid on D.C., Vicksburg, the WIlderness, Mufreesboro or the Seven Days.

Any comments or questions are welcome- sock it to me! :D

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Re: Secesh Heresy: Gettysburg, Day 2

Postby jefjef on Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:27 am

Like the idea. Run with it.

I really like the courage concept.

As for 49,000 confederates official estimates put their strength at over 70,000. On day 2 all units were on field with the exception of Picketts 5,700. Subtracting the 1st days 5,200 casualties the southern strength seems low. But By Not including cav units I suppose your number is close.

Nice work and unit placements.

Fredericksburg and both Bull runs would be good maps to also consider.

And I think it was Qwert that is/was working on a Antietam map.
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Re: Secesh Heresy: Gettysburg, Day 2

Postby Industrial Helix on Fri Jul 30, 2010 10:48 am

First impression... this map is cool but the colors hurt my eyes. I hope you go for the faded map look on this one later on in graphics.

Now after reading through it... The bonuses seem a little high. I love the courage element and the charging a hill, very nice touch.

How'd you name the territories?

Overall, it looks like quite a fun map to play (now that I'm getting used to the battle maps on CC). I look forward to playing this one and hope you continue development!
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Re: Secesh Heresy: Gettysburg, Day 2

Postby theBastard on Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:07 am

nice ideas here. the graphic need any work, but gameplay looks intersting.

about "attack uphill thru" player must hold any of courages or all?
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Re: Secesh Heresy: Gettysburg, Day 2

Postby Rih0 on Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:24 am

only one of them. The courage has the name of the territory you want to assault. Just pick one and go for it.
The thing is: the courage box can be assaulted by any territory?
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Re: Secesh Heresy: Gettysburg, Day 2

Postby porkenbeans on Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:58 pm

Yeah, the colors need to be changed, to something more in line with the bloody battle of long ago. But once that stuff is worked out, I think that you will have a pretty nice map here. 8-)
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Re: Secesh Heresy: Gettysburg, Day 2

Postby jefjef on Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:02 pm

Rih0 wrote:only one of them. The courage has the name of the territory you want to assault. Just pick one and go for it.
The thing is: the courage box can be assaulted by any territory?


No. IE. If you want to attack Hays from Avery you need to conquer the Hays courage first before you can proceed to attack Hays tert. I think the courages should only be ones though. Enough of a disadvantage to have to do the extra attack.
Last edited by jefjef on Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Secesh Heresy: Gettysburg, Day 2

Postby ender516 on Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:22 pm

The courage mechanism is very clever. Whether they should be ones or twos is clearly an open question, worthy of analysis and discussion in the Gameplay Workshop, where I hope to see this map soon. But first, you will need a Design Brief. Bring it on with all speed!
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Re: Secesh Heresy: Gettysburg, Day 2

Postby MarshalNey on Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:51 pm

Thanks for the warm response guys- and yes jefjef has it correct about the courage mechanism. If you hold a region adjacent to a "hill" region, you must first attack the courage region (killer neutral 2) and then can proceed to attack the intended hill region back on the map.

I'm in a hotel in Omaha this weekend, without a lot of time, but I'll see about toning down the colors- this was just a sketch of the idea, and I wanted to make the colors distinct for easy gameplay analysis. The graphics are really in their infancy on this one.

As for the 49K figure, I used Shelby Foote's overall excellent synopsis of the battle (although for the overall map, I used books written by several other historians, along with a few primary sources in my research). He deducted Pickett's division, practically all of the Confederate cavalry, and battle losses for the first day... like you said.

IHelix, the bonus values actually received some revision, but I agonized over balancing the size of the bonuses vs. the ease with which they can be bombarded. In Waterloo, for instance, the bonus values might seem high if you aren't aware of the sweeping power of the cannon. The cannon aren't as bad as in Waterloo, but they do sweep a wide swath.
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Re: Secesh Heresy: Gettysburg, Day 2

Postby JP007 on Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:36 am

Love the ideas of more Civil War maps. I like the game play idea, but the map itself I have some questions about:
I am brand new to this, but why couldn't you use this map as the background graphics then add the overlay of the gridwork of the territories??
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Re: Secesh Heresy: Gettysburg, Day 2

Postby natty dread on Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:58 am

why couldn't you use this map as the background graphics then add the overlay of the gridwork of the territories??


a) that's not how maps are made. Graphics need to be original artwork, we can't just rip off some random guy's work from the internet...

b) that map is too large, there's a size limit for CC maps
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Re: Secesh Heresy: Gettysburg, Day 2

Postby jefjef on Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:01 pm

natty_dread wrote:
why couldn't you use this map as the background graphics then add the overlay of the gridwork of the territories??


a) that's not how maps are made. Graphics need to be original artwork, we can't just rip off some random guy's work from the internet...

b) that map is too large, there's a size limit for CC maps


I imagine he had considered something like this. You know he has poured over many of this type of map but has chosen to create his own. (I love the Austerlitz type map btw)

This is in it's early stages and will only get better.

btw. I see he has done this already but I would emphasize that bonus region colors remain grays - butternuts - browns for Confederate and blues - reds - greens for Union. (get rid of the pink plz. lolol)

Be nice to see cannon icons more civil war era style.
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Re: Secesh Heresy: Gettysburg, Day 2

Postby MarshalNey on Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:35 am

JP007 wrote:Love the ideas of more Civil War maps. I like the game play idea...


Thanks for the support and for coming in to take look :D Is the gameplay clear, and is there some aspect you liked in particular?

JP007 wrote:...but why couldn't you use this map as the background graphics then add the overlay of the gridwork of the territories??


I think natty answered this well:

natty_dread wrote:
a) that's not how maps are made. Graphics need to be original artwork, we can't just rip off some random guy's work from the internet...

b) that map is too large, there's a size limit for CC maps


a) Correct.

On the other hand, in the Melting Pot it's okay (and even common) to use Internet maps as starting points of information when posting, so that others can comment on an idea. And then later, one could use the information from said maps to create your own from scratch.

b) Incidentally, the size limit for CC maps is 800 x 840 pixels for the large map and 600 x 630 pixels for the small map.

jefjef wrote:I imagine he had considered something like this. You know he has poured over many of this type of map but has chosen to create his own. (I love the Austerlitz type map btw)

This is in it's early stages and will only get better


As jefjef says, this draft is really a concept sketch with a little graphics work put into it. I didn't want to get too carried away working on it until I was sure I was on the right track. Given the support so far, I'm definitely going ahead with this.

I hope you continue to follow the map, JP, and I greatly appreciate the feedback. Keep the questions and comments coming, and I'll be ready to answer. ;)

jefjef wrote:btw. I see he has done this already but I would emphasize that bonus region colors remain grays - butternuts - browns for Confederate and blues - reds - greens for Union. (get rid of the pink plz. lolol)

Be nice to see cannon icons more civil war era style.


Ahhh, thanks for noticing, those 'warm' confederate grays and browns vs. the 'cold' blues and purples were indeed intentional. Really, though, I didn't pick the other colors for anything other than the clarity of being different from each other.

I'm surprised that you don't like the pink. What says 'bloodbath of steel' better than pink??

As for the cannon icons, well, I'll see what I can do. I prefer to use a top-down angle, which makes it hard to convey the distictive look that a silhouette can but will blend with the prespective that I'm using.

Thanks for sincere interest, jefjef, and the insightful comments.
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Re: Secesh Heresy: Gettysburg, Day 2

Postby Incandenza on Tue Aug 03, 2010 2:44 am

That's a heck of a nice draft there, Marshall. Stay with it, could be a very cool map (tho I'd suggest changing "courage" to "Charge!")
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Re: Secesh Heresy: Gettysburg, Day 2

Postby shaneback on Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:46 pm

Looking Good Marshal,

I noticed the cannons can bombard any territory with their bonus area. Does that include the adjacent territories too? Or will they be considered "border" territories? If they can only bombard, I am assuming you would not be able to advance or fort off the cannon?

I am assuming the HQ's will start as neutrals?

I like the aspect of the walls and stream reverting to neutrals.

I know its early but have you given any thought to how many starting territories each player will get?

Good Luck

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