[Abandoned] - Cairo

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[Abandoned] - Cairo

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:37 pm

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Map Name: Days of Revolt: Cairo
Link to Thread: viewtopic.php?f=583&t=139236
Mapmaker(s): Industrial Helix
Map Size: 20 Territories
Your aims/design style: This map depicts the recent events in Cairo leading to the resignation of Egyptian President Mubarak. Game should reflect the balance of power between Army, anti-gov't protesters and pro-government protesters. Ideally, Anti-gov't protesters should be the easier of the bonuses to hold with the best payoff. Though the Pro-gov't protesters are strong, demonstrated by the Feb. 2nd clashes. Such major events, such as those clashes and the spread of protests to the Parliament building are given appropriate reference and significance on the map. Other important places, such as the Egyptian Museum, also have a place on the map as part of a build your own bonus scheme.
Uniqueness: We've got 2 out of nearly 200 maps that are under 24 territories (Lux and Doodle) I feel that it fills a niche. I also feel that the potential of current events is largely unused. It would make a nice compliment to the existing Egyptian maps, great for tournaments, and helps to give that neglected continent a little more focus.
Relevant Experience: 13 Colonies, German and Italian Unification, South Africa 1885 and the forthcoming Rise of Communism maps.

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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby natty dread on Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:33 pm

Hm... hasn't CC policy usually been that we shouldn't make maps of too recent wars?

I know it's not actually a war and it's already over in a sense, but it is a recent event, it could be somewhat controversial...

I like the idea personally, I just wonder how the site admin feels about it.

I think it could use some more territories though.
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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:58 pm

natty_dread wrote:Hm... hasn't CC policy usually been that we shouldn't make maps of too recent wars?

I know it's not actually a war and it's already over in a sense, but it is a recent event, it could be somewhat controversial...

I like the idea personally, I just wonder how the site admin feels about it.

I think it could use some more territories though.


I dunno, I'll have to ask Andy about it. I mean, they made Battle for Iraq and that war still isn't over. Part of the appeal is that its so recent, imo.

And I want to keep it small. I feel that its integral to the theme, that being that Tahrir Square could essentially determine the fate of Egypt. Plus, we've only got 3 out of nearly 200 truly small maps, I feel there is space to grow there on CC.
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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby natty dread on Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:19 pm

Yeah small is ok, but if you would add 2 more territories then 8 players could start with 3 territories each.
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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby MoB Deadly on Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:29 pm

I really like this idea, and I am a fan of the smaller maps. I think there needs to be troop circles or something more though to make the armies stand out. I had to really search for them because the map is pretty busy as is.
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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:40 pm

I think I can add two territories.

As for Army Circles... I think I agree. I only like to use them if absolutely necessary and I think they might be needed here. I'll work something out.
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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby MoB Deadly on Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:53 pm

when adding in territories, I think take a second look at Anti-Government (Yellow). They seem to have a distinct advantage in my opinion.

Pro-Government would be really hard to hold, has the most buildings bordering them, most territories, the most fronts on the buildings. Not to mention an island they have to hold too.

Yellow only has to cover 3 fronts, (2 if they take the adjacent buildings), and gets the same bonus
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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby Victor Sullivan on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:53 pm

=D> Bravo! I am liking this one ;) I think you're right in that Anti-government should be lower - I'd say 3 fits nicely. As for the no-bonus buildings...well, they need a bonus of some sort. I feel like this may cause uneven drops otherwise, and with such a small map I'd expect it to be magnified. I suggest an auto-deploy or collection bonus, myself, such as a +1 auto-deploy or a +1 for 3, +2 for 5 collection bonus. This I think makes the map more balanced and still should not require neutrals.
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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby mpjh on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:03 pm

How about bonuses for being a union member, journalist, or woman somehow incorporated into the map -- love it. Maybe you could be a super bonus for holding a Muslim, Coptic, and secular territory all at once.
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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:14 pm

mpjh wrote:How about bonuses for being a union member, journalist, or woman somehow incorporated into the map -- love it. Maybe you could be a super bonus for holding a Muslim, Coptic, and secular territory all at once.


Well, i want to sort of steer away from too complicated a bonus structure. And its not really a region that is separated into Muslim, Coptic or secular areas... we're talking about a stretch of land I could walk across in 15-20 minutes.

As for your suggestions Sullivan... i agree. Though I'm hesitant to put in 4 autodeploy territories. I have two ideas... a collection bonus, as you suggested, hold two or 3 for +1 or something. Any bonus, hold all 4 for +3. Or a bonus augmenter... Hold any government building with any other bonus and gain +2 per building.

Thoughts?
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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby MoB Deadly on Tue Mar 01, 2011 8:00 pm

I like the collection idea, i think
3 = +2
4 = +3 (maybe)
5 = +4
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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby Victor Sullivan on Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:55 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:
mpjh wrote:How about bonuses for being a union member, journalist, or woman somehow incorporated into the map -- love it. Maybe you could be a super bonus for holding a Muslim, Coptic, and secular territory all at once.


Well, i want to sort of steer away from too complicated a bonus structure. And its not really a region that is separated into Muslim, Coptic or secular areas... we're talking about a stretch of land I could walk across in 15-20 minutes.

As for your suggestions Sullivan... i agree. Though I'm hesitant to put in 4 autodeploy territories. I have two ideas... a collection bonus, as you suggested, hold two or 3 for +1 or something. Any bonus, hold all 4 for +3. Or a bonus augmenter... Hold any government building with any other bonus and gain +2 per building.

Thoughts?

Well, first off, there are five buildings ;) Secondly, I think your idea unbalances things a lot. If you hold a bonus, you're set and have a huge advantage over the others, so adding in a bonus to supplement a bonus isn't the greatest idea, I think... I think your best option is a collection bonus like this:
+1 for 3
+3 for 5
(No +2 for 4. I deliberately did that, as I feel it balances the collection bonus structure.)

On another note, what are your plans for the extra two territories? It'd be nice to see them in an update soon.
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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:07 pm

I dunno... I'm thinking about those extra two territories. Tahrir Square can be broken pretty easily into two. Maybe that square east of Tahrir.

I dunno... I'll have to look around the news articles.
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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby Victor Sullivan on Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:08 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:I dunno... I'm thinking about those extra two territories. Tahrir Square can be broken pretty easily into two. Maybe that square east of Tahrir.

I dunno... I'll have to look around the news articles.

Alright. Will both these territories be Anti-Government, then?
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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby Industrial Helix on Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:06 pm

Victor Sullivan wrote:
Industrial Helix wrote:I dunno... I'm thinking about those extra two territories. Tahrir Square can be broken pretty easily into two. Maybe that square east of Tahrir.

I dunno... I'll have to look around the news articles.

Alright. Will both these territories be Anti-Government, then?


Yeah, I'm not all that comfortable with that though. I want Anti-Government demonstrators to be the easier bonus. I'm gonna have to figure something out here.
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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:54 pm

The only policy (aside from all of the detailed Foundry Guidelines) in regards to map subject matter has been that it be unique/interesting, and tasteful/neutral in presentation of sensitive subject matter.


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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:47 pm

That is what I was hoping to hear...

I'll have a new version coming soon.
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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:38 pm

I held off on adding any more territories because I feel like I'd just be making up historical events to suit the purposes of gameplay. If anything, I kind of want a reduction in Anti-Government protester territories. Maybe pull two of the off the map and divide the Security forces into two groups. Thoughts?

Anyway, here's a version with the army circles, definitely necessary in my opinion:

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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby perchorin on Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:00 pm

I'm a big fan of maps that use satellite images (I think San Francisco is the only one to this point right?) so even though I usually avoid small maps I'd really enjoy this one I think. I do think it could use more terts though :P
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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:10 pm

Thanks for the support! I'll be keeping it low in territories though.
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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby 24Keyser on Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:26 pm

1 mistake Tunisa is misspelled as Tuneisa
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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby Industrial Helix on Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:00 pm

24Keyser wrote:1 mistake Tunisa is misspelled as Tuneisa


Good eye. But you misspelled Tunisia as 'Tunisa' ;)
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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby Victor Sullivan on Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:40 pm

Industrial Helix wrote:I held off on adding any more territories because I feel like I'd just be making up historical events to suit the purposes of gameplay. If anything, I kind of want a reduction in Anti-Government protester territories. Maybe pull two of the off the map and divide the Security forces into two groups. Thoughts?

I think you have a great point here, historical accuracy over more territories - they're more of an accessory than a necessity. Why are you considering reducing the Anti-government territories? It seems to me they had more men than the pro-gov't. I don't know if it's necessary to split up the Security forces, unless there's good reasoning for the division (historically speaking, as I don't think it's a gameplay necessity).

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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby natty dread on Thu Mar 03, 2011 2:07 am

Industrial Helix wrote:I held off on adding any more territories because I feel like I'd just be making up historical events to suit the purposes of gameplay.


With all respect, that's what making CC maps is. Well, not exactly making them up, but... you know what I mean.

I really think you ought to have at least 24 territories.
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Re: Days of Revolt: Cairo

Postby Industrial Helix on Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:08 am

I get what you're saying Natty, though making a CC map isn't just making up history. It's a game, we're making games here. But when that French guy made up Risk he didn't draw in Atlantis because the South America bonus was too easily defensible.

Why do you insist on at least 24 territories? Luxembourg and Doodle do just fine with less.
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