[Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Proposed Changes (3/14/14)

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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Proposed Changes (3/14/14)

Postby Donelladan on Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:55 pm

Btw, a lot of dwellers bonus do not work properly currently. FOr example I took M2 and didnt get a +1.

Now I have 2 caverns and only get a +2 instead of +1, +1 and +2 so +4

Game 14276104
2014-04-11 21:52:07 - Donelladan received 2 troops for holding Dwellers - Caverns
2014-04-11 21:52:07 - Donelladan received 1 troops for holding Dragonkin - Favored
2014-04-11 21:52:07 - Donelladan received 1 troops for holding Dragonkin - Adjacent to Favored
2014-04-11 21:52:07 - Donelladan received 2 troops for holding Basic Land
2014-04-11 21:52:07 - Donelladan received 3 troops for 9 regions
2014-04-11 21:52:08 - Donelladan deployed 9 troops on M2 - Caverns
2014-04-11 21:52:09 - Donelladan assaulted S4 - Caverns from M2 - Caverns and conquered it from
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Proposed Changes (3/14/14)

Postby dolomite13 on Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:19 pm

Donelladan wrote:
Bonuses
+1/3 (Min +3) attached to basic lands (as it should have been).
- No standard Territory Bonus back in effect.
This change should smooth out the early game just a bit so it is harder to knock someone off the map early and pretty much keep them off the map.


I don't get it. What means "No standard territory bonus back in effect", your first line "+1/3 (Min +3) attached to basic lands (as it should have been)." means that you will use the standard territory bonus.
Could you give an example with what we have now and what we would have?

Right now on the legend of the map it is written 3 red start give you a +1, so no difference between what we have now and what you describe or?


I don't want to use the standard +3 minimum attached to all territories but I want their to be a minimum you can receive to get you started ... I also don't want to attach that to kingdoms as giving kingdoms a bonus or autodeploy changes the dynamic in 1v1 games a bit too much. I am looking for something to attach the normal +3 minimum to and if I attach it to basic lands then for holding 0 - 11 basic lands you get +3 and at the 12th, 15th, 18th, 21st, 24th, 27th, 30th you get an additional +1 to a max of +7 just for expansion. Right now I believe I have that attached generically to the whole map so you get +3 then you stack +1/3 for basic lands on top. This change reduces slightly the up front amount you can get from basic lands.

Basic Lands (current)
0 +3
3 +4
6 +5
9 +6
12 +7
15 +8
18 +9

Basic Lands (proposed)
0 +3
3 +3
6 +3
9 +3
12 +4
15 +5
18 +6



Donelladan wrote:

Barbarians
- Horde 3n (down from 5n)
- Horde required to grant the +1 per 3 basic land added bonus
This will make it necessary to take the horde to get the added bonus and may promote use of the horde as a way to travel around the board easier. I rarely see anyone use the horde as it is currently implemented.



I don't know if reducing the horde to 3 is good or not because I did not have this special feature often so far.
But concerning the bonus, forcing to hold the horde to have the extra bonus is quite bad I think.
Other special features like cosmic, demonic and dwellers can have a +2 by taking only 3 neutrals. You'll force people with horde to take 12 neutrals ( 3 basic land + hordes) to have a +3 ( or +4) ( +1/favored territory, +1 for 3 basic land like for everyone, +1 for the horde bonus because you have 3 basic land - potentially another +1 because 2 territory adjacent to your favorite).
So I compare +2 for 3 neutrals to +4 for 12 neutrals. I am not sure if it is good idea to force people to take the horde.


Hmmm... I do want the bonuses and other special abilities to sort of balance out. We cant look at the bonus value alone. Their is an intrinsic value to having a way to jump across the map. And for barbarians this route id different based on their kingdom. I want to encourage the barbarians to spread out a bit and to use the Horde as a way to jump around the map. At +5 it seems to me as if it goes unused thus encouraging the horde player to not utilize it. I felt like lowering it to 3 would encourage it's use. I wasn't really thinking about the "mandatory" aspect as using it should be something that gets you a benefit.

I want to encourage expansion as it seems to fit "barbarians" and a horde mentality. Perhapse the horde could start at 1 and be an autodeploy 1 so that you are getting a bonus every turn once you take it then the +1 per 3 being attached to having the horde would be the flavor of having a horde and make barbarians a bit nervous in "nukes" games.



Donelladan wrote:
Demonic
- Underworld 3n (down from 5n)
- Basic bonus +1 per minion (removed the added +1/2)
- Underworld required for an additional +1 per minion bonus
Similar to the horde the underworld seems to be unused by players. By tying an added bonus to it, it may now start seeing play.


I always take underworld when I have it. Awesome bonus for me. If you don't remove the +1 for 2 at least.

- Underworld required for an additional +1 per minion bonus


You mean that the 1st minion i take give me +1, but for the 2nd minion to give me +1 i need underworld. Or , the 1st minion i take give me +1 only if I have the underworld?


We go from this
1 minion +1
2 minions +3
3 minions +4
4 minions +6

To this
1 minion +1
2 minions +2
3 minions +3
4 minions +4
1 minion and underworld +2
2 minions and underworld +4
3 minions and underworld +6
4 minions and underworld +8

I think that requiring the underworld at 3n and giving you a higher top end bonus would be a pretty good overall boost to demonic.
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Proposed Changes (3/14/14)

Postby dolomite13 on Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:36 pm

Donelladan wrote:
Dwellers
- change the 4 caverns +2 to "for every cavern and crypt you hold you get +1" (max +4)
Being able to jump around the map for free is powerful but spreading out around the map can also work against you. This change will now only grant you more bonus troops if you also focus on holding crypts and will put some pressure on the undead player.


I find undead player bonus to be the worse on the map, and you want to give a +1/crypt for the dwellers???
Dwellers is awesome, only player that have all his +1 bonus connected to each other directly. All this other conditional bonus ask you to have at least 2 territory to work. This one works with the 1st one. Do not give him a +1/crypt extra.


So I want their to be an added bonus for dwellers to expand. Right now its all about the caverns. I need something else to combine with it. I could use a specific basic land but that makes a player who has that basic land as a favored type much more powerful. I could just make it favored but then dwellers becomes the best in the game. I am half tempted to add a new resource type on all of the 8 territories that don't have a symbol and use that to spice up dwellers a bit.

Any thoughts are welcome.




Donelladan wrote:
Cosmic
- change the 2 radiation +1* to "for every mines and radiation you hold you get +1" (max +4).
Cosmic gets some nice abilities once they get to 2 territories this change will make them want to branch out a bit and make the "miners" a bit nervous.


Also very good bonus imo, why you want to give them a +1/mines.

Consider, Dwellers and Cosmic are bonus that get a +1 for their 1st regions They very often will start with a +2 once they take their favored land. And you are giving them an extra possibility to get +1, possibly by a neigboring region (P4 and T1 for cosmic/mines or M2/P3 for dwellers/mines).

I add, if we take all your previous remark, you make it more difficult for Barbarian and Demonic to get +1, and you give extra one to Cosmic and and Dwellers.
Also consider a players getting Dwellers and Miners bonus at the same times.

Btw I dislike miner as much as undead because they both need TWO regions to get a bonus and both of them give you no extra connection. So it is like hell to go fetch extra bonus.

I never use player that have Miners and Undead when I am playing team games, i also don't use those feature when I play 1vs1 games.

Maybe you have been playing more multiplayers games. But I am quite sure for 1vs1 and team games your change are giving more advantage to special fetaures that are already good.


Again, like dwellers I am scrounging for a bonus that can be added to them... I may have that solution soon.




Donelladan wrote:
Kingdoms
- change kingdoms to be able to reinforce to favored territories you control.
This would be one way and would not work the opposite direction.
- change kingdoms so they can not assault favored territories that border blood towers.
This would decrease the possible starting territories from 4 to 3 but also limit access to the 8 most important territories on the map.


I don't see why you consider blood towers being the most important territory on the maps. Only advantage is to give you possibility to take forbidden lands, but you don't do it unless games is already won for you anyway. Only exception is if you are playing escalating but otherwise I don't find blood towers having any interest, I'll never attack them if I don't hold the special feature wizard.

Also, if you do that you are disavantaging hugely the players with special feature wizard, he becomes only one that can't attack the regions with his special feature ability.


Hmmm that is very true I will probably reverse that decision.
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Proposed Changes (3/14/14)

Postby dolomite13 on Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:41 pm

Donelladan wrote:
- change kingdoms to be able to reinforce to favored territories you control.


Why not. But does it also means that you will be always able to attack from your kingdoms your favored territory?

I explain, right now, once I took one favored territory, I can't attack anymore from my kingdom. Making the change you suppose, since for me forting way are attacking way, if you allow one way for to favore territory, to you also allow one way attack for favored territory also after you took one?


No it would be only an initial attack and I will probably reverse this decision anyway ... I was looking for a way to allow you to reinforce from kingdoms but it is probably unnecessary.




Donelladan wrote:
Chasms
- removing chasms and connecting the land permanently across them for all player
because the start areas are no longer the #1 of each basic land type (S1, M1, T1 etc...) players can no longer exploit the short routs between them so the extra complication is unnecessary


I like the complication so far. I am not sure for who is good or not. I don't mind that changes, I also don't mind it say the same. Of course it is a complexity that gave me some stress during my 1st games because I didnt notice it.


I think it is an unneeded complexity and makes "adjacent to favored" confusing. It mase sense when the start territories were the 8 on the outer edge of the map but now that you can select your start it is just confusing.






Donelladan wrote:
Badlands
- I added two new territories near the center of the map that are killer 5.
This will take a bit of the pressure off of J3 and F3 as they are serious choke points and often stopped teammates from getting from one side of the map to the other. The high cost will dissuade early use and the fact that they are "Killer" will make them situational use only. It is possible they should only be killer 3 or 2 and this is open for discussion.


Highly probable that I would never use those killer neutral 5. Put them to 2 maximum if you want us to use them. Even 1 should be considered. You minimum lose 1 troops by taking them and they don't give you any advantage other than a new connection. I say try with 2 and consider 1 for the future.


I think that 2 is reasonable.
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Re: [Beta] - Krazy Kingdoms - Proposed Changes (3/14/14)

Postby Donelladan on Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:49 am

The changes for the basic bonus is very good. I am totally voting for it.


I want to encourage expansion as it seems to fit "barbarians" and a horde mentality. Perhapse the horde could start at 1 and be an autodeploy 1 so that you are getting a bonus every turn once you take it then the +1 per 3 being attached to having the horde would be the flavor of having a horde and make barbarians a bit nervous in "nukes" games.


Interesting idea, might be dangerously powerful for multiplayer game since nobody except barbarian player can attack the horde.
I am reconsidering anyway, horde can break anyone bonus once you have it. That still very nice.
Reducing 5 to 3 neutral should be enough to make this bonus quite good.

So I want their to be an added bonus for dwellers to expand. Right now its all about the caverns. I need something else to combine with it. I could use a specific basic land but that makes a player who has that basic land as a favored type much more powerful. I could just make it favored but then dwellers becomes the best in the game. I am half tempted to add a new resource type on all of the 8 territories that don't have a symbol and use that to spice up dwellers a bit.

Any thoughts are welcome.


I still don't get it. Why dwellers should need another bonus? ( same for cosmic ). I understand that your problem now is that dweller take one cavern, then the 3 others caverns, then they stack. But giving them another bonus to take only balance game for the fools that would fight for another bonus with someone else. As a dwellers I'll still stay on my caverns that no one else want.
If you add another bonus to dwellers then you need to reduce amount of troops they receive from the caverns, then they get incentive to attack the other one and it is more balanced.

Did you consider making another territory linked to the special feature that people could attack?
Like this : everyone start with a special feature that he can't lose. But also everyone can gain another special feature by taking some amount of neutrals. You make that someone can only get one other special feature. And special feature can only be attacked from a land with their bonus.

I am clear? So that way everyone start with one special feature he cannot lose. And everyone is able to gain another special feature, but only one. Then you give pressure to everyone, and you make multiplayer game a fucking awesome mess !!! :D
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