[Abandoned] -The Chako/K'zari War

[DearCyrus]

While it is true that I am not making a sea based map, I am making the map an island dwelling person would have on hand when an alien invasion took place. It is part of telling the story nonverbally. The extended back story in my top post makes it clear that this takes place in the Islands as does the map text.
For the size of my islands, I assure you I have used the proper amount of lines.

[DearCyrus]

Version 5




And Version 5.5



Version 5
Changes:Lightened map coloration overall. Made story text smaller and bonus text larger, added Neutral and auto-deploy text.Reordered the bonuses clockwise from top left. Lightened and re-positioned charting lines and made second version with lines over land. Removed land outline and added glow to territ names.

[thenobodies80]

Hello,

some quick thoughts.
I like the story, I like the map...it's a really good start.

On the opposite I strongly suggest you to think about having a such large bonus like Chako. Think about Asia on the Cliassic Map...how many times you won a game holding it?
I bet you can count them with just one hand. I would reduce the number of regions or better I would split that big continent.

Please make K'Zari ship more visible, It's an important territory so it should be easy to find on the map.

Are you planning to add some story elements on the map? I mean the story is ok but there's nothing on the map that tell to me about it. Visually there's nothing that tell me what I'm going to play. I see your legend but when you will reach the graphics stage I really suggest to make your map more themed. The player should look at it and have at least an idea of what it's going to play.

For example look at cairnswk' jamaica map:

show: MAP

You need 2 seconds to understand what this map is talking about. Try to do something that have the same effect with your story. Make the map looks more than just some islands.
Obviously, this is just my point of view.
Anyway a great start, looking forward your next update

Nobodies

[thenobodies80]

Oh, btw before I forgot: I'm a pianist/keyboardist, 27 years of my life this month

[DearCyrus]

That is awesome! We should collaborate on a CC song!

[greenoaks]

i don't see a war here. i see some random blobs called 'islands'. an Atlantis wannabe, and i don't think much of that map.

there is nothing to indicate this is a fight for survival as most of the fighting will be against yourself, not the 'Star creatures'.

• where are the alien hordes?
• where is the death & destruction?
• how do aliens without reason built spacecraft?
• where are the tribes of Chako?
• how do they learn to fight aliens?
• where are the clones made from the blood of the strongest warriors?
• why are the tribes able to teleport directly onto a spacecraft of aliens who 'show no fear', yet don't show up?
• where are the other spacecraft that caused this fight for survival?
• if the K'zari had only 1 ship, then why does the war not end when it is taken? (victory condition)

your back story of rising up against an alien invasion and an Atlantis-esq map with teleports doesn't gel. the Chako/K'zari war seems better suited to a short story than a map on Conquer Club.

[DearCyrus]

Thanks for the feedback. I am on vacation this week, with only my phone for internet... full response at a later time!

[greenoaks]

Thanks for the feedback. I am on vacation this week, with only my phone for internet... full response at a later time!

i realise some of my questions may not be important to the map. i raised them to point out the inconsistencies with your back story and the map's game-play.

the back story says this is a battle between alien species but there is nothing alien about them. Realms 3 offers extra bonuses or functions for each of the tribes (starting points). All Your Bases Are Belong To Us provides dual tech advancements. Starcraft also provides 3 different species with distinct features and playing styles.

why are we not allowed to be K'zari trying to conquer the Chako? atm it is more of a 'unite the Chako' with some technology (portals) of an ancient, forgotten race.

[DearCyrus]

i realise some of my questions may not be important to the map. i raised them to point out the inconsistencies with your back story and the map's game-play.

the back story says this is a battle between alien species but there is nothing alien about them. Realms 3 offers extra bonuses or functions for each of the tribes (starting points). All Your Bases Are Belong To Us provides dual tech advancements. Starcraft also provides 3 different species with distinct features and playing styles.

why are we not allowed to be K'zari trying to conquer the Chako? atm it is more of a 'unite the Chako' with some technology (portals) of an ancient, forgotten race.

I understand your point Greenoaks, and again, Thanks for the response. That being said, let me explain how I envisioned this map. Player 1 IS the K'Zari race. All other players are the Island tribesmen. A single alien vessel crash-landed hundreds of years ago and since then, the Aliens have been spreading out searching for resources to repair their ship; and failing that, subjugating the natives. Since such a long time has passed, Player 1 would only be coded one starting position, The K'Zari Ship. The rest of their locations would be random drops mixed in with the islanders.
You are correct that the map will play as "a unify the Chako against the Common enemy" to some extent. However, if I were to make a victory condition to wipe out the K'Zari, we would have to find a way to lop-side the game in player 1's favor at the start, because a 11-on-1 game could end rather quickly with that as a condition...

And some talking points from your prvious post...

• where are the alien hordes?
  
  
• where are the clones made from the blood of the strongest warriors?
  (Represented by the Auto-deploy on the Ship.)
  
• where are the other spacecraft that caused this fight for survival?
  (Just the one... Sorry to disappoint. )
• if the K'zari had only 1 ship, then why does the war not end when it is taken? (victory condition)
  (See above. )

your back story of rising up against an alien invasion and an Atlantis-esq map with teleports doesn't gel.
(The one point I fear I may never get any agreement on. This is intended to be the map that the Islanders would be using when aliens arrived on their planet. If my map were instead an actual representation of the planet itself we would see the destruction, ect, and need someone with much more graphic skill than I possess...)

the Chako/K'zari war seems better suited to a short story than a map on Conquer Club.
(Perhaps. )

[DearCyrus]

Here is a possible change up of the bonus structure...


The location of cities can be moved of course.
I am also trying to think of a way to add a conditional bombardment from the ship... Is this possible?

[greenoaks]

the map should stand alone ie. not require an elaborate backstory. i feel that because you need to explain, this is unlikely to be a good map because you are not going to be sitting beside every player explaining your vision.

for instance, this planet has been attacked by aliens who still control their ship and some islanders are all that is resisting them. islands right next to the ship. surely their proximity would have had them destroyed long ago. every movie i've ever seen has the immediate vicinity destroyed/conquered first and resistance comes from further away.

[DearCyrus]

Oh, Hollywood! How you have destroyed the sci-fi genre! Those movies depict invasion, while this is a crash and integration of two rival species forced into the same area. The map has all of the pertinent information on it.

[greenoaks]

Oh, Hollywood! How you have destroyed the sci-fi genre! Those movies depict invasion, while this is a crash and integration of two rival species forced into the same area. The map has all of the pertinent information on it.

if the original species is fighting for its survival why are the aliens in only 1 location?
what has changed that would now allow them to repel the aliens when they couldn't for several hundred years?
how do the locals differ from humans? what special abilities/traits do they have?

[DearCyrus]

Player 1 IS the K'Zari race. Player 1 would only be coded one starting position, The K'Zari Ship. The rest of their locations would be random drops mixed in with the islanders.

as in multiple locations, but not the same ones every time.

[thenobodies80]

I am also trying to think of a way to add a conditional bombardment from the ship... Is this possible?

No, it is not possible.

Now, form a certain point of view i agree with greenoaks about some concerns. The background, the story could should developed more. What this map need is to have the story displayed on it and not with just words...
Don't take this in the wring way, but right now this map, without the text on the left side, could be a map about everything. There's nothing on the map that screams: aliens!

Make a comparison with DiM's All your bases are belong to us; on that map you don't need to read, you need just 2 seconds to understand, at least, what the theme is.
Then you can like or dislike the map, the graphics, the gameplay...but you can't say that the graphics don' t do the job they are supposed to do!
I'm not trying to push you to draw like DiM....he was an experienced mapmaker, instead you're at your first attempt to develop a map....this is clear to me and i well know what are your feelings....i was first time mapmaker too
But I'm trying to push you to develop the best map you can.

You are showing well, just remember that a map bust be unique for something and it must show its uniqueness and make it its strong point. You're "selling" a product...and the customers, the players, people like greenoaks...they are your target (no point into develop a map that nobody will play) and you should listen to them...

I've experienced this feeling with all maps i did....at some point you feel like no one can understand what you're trying to do or it seems that everyone are trying to change your map because they see faults where you don't. In that moment you are experiencing the foundry, the community around you that share with you their thoughts.
In that moment you have to grab the advice given, think about them and see in the most objective way if they could or should be applied to the map.
Remember suggestions are always given to try to have the best map, not to spit on the mapmaker job.
With time you will understand that community will make your map better and most important the map that people want to play.

Greenoaks is right, the map is about aliens but it can be about dynosaurs, about dolphins that want to conquest the ground land (see thesimpsons ), about islands that are going to collapse into the sea...

You don't have to be leonardo, just make the map a bit less anonymous with graphics or gameplay
I think you can do it easily.

Nobodies

[DearCyrus]

I did think of a way to do a "conditional bombardment"... Make an additional territory, lets say "laser cannons", that shares a conditional border with the ship. The cannon can bombard but can only be reached when the condition is met. Make it killer neutral, and the condition must be held continually to use this feature.

[DearCyrus]

I went back to a more modern look and added a border to give the appearance of a console. I removed Background Story text and changed the bonus structure. The map now includes 16 city locations holding any 2 grants a +3 bonus (+24 if all are held). There is no longer a bonus for holding an entire Island.
I added a Space in the bottom right corner that I call a "species identifier". This non attack-able space will be coded as a starting position for player 1. It will be used in combination to create a "Faux Conditional bombardment"(you heard it here first! ) Holding the speices identifier and at least 3 cities (to gather resources from) will open a conditional border from the K'Zari Ship to Lazers. Once they power up the lazers (10n) they will be able to bombard any territory. However, the lazers will evetually overheat from use and kill the operators. (killer neutral resets to 10 when held)

[JamesKer1]

I did think of a way to do a "conditional bombardment"... Make an additional territory, lets say "laser cannons", that shares a conditional border with the ship. The cannon can bombard but can only be reached when the condition is met. Make it killer neutral, and the condition must be held continually to use this feature.

I don't think it is possible due to game engine requirements, not just gameplay on maps to make it happen. And a triple condition to bombard? That won't be out for a while I bet, if its even possible. Conditional attacks are relatively new as well from what I understand, so it might be something in the making but hasn't arrived yet.

I like the new look though- I'm not really big on maps as of now so I'm probably not the best person to give advice (just wanted you to know I saw the message and liked the progress). Some of the borders around the islands near Velun and the whole continent in the upper right hand corner of the map make them look clumped- is there any way they could be lightened and spaced from each other more? To me, it looks like the glow was extended too far, if this makes sense at all.

[DearCyrus]

I like the new look though- I'm not really big on maps as of now so I'm probably not the best person to give advice (just wanted you to know I saw the message and liked the progress). Some of the borders around the islands near Velun and the whole continent in the upper right hand corner of the map make them look clumped- is there any way they could be lightened and spaced from each other more? To me, it looks like the glow was extended too far, if this makes sense at all.

It makes perfect sense... I will see what I can do.

I don't think it is possible due to game engine requirements, not just gameplay on maps to make it happen. And a triple condition to bombard? That won't be out for a while I bet, if its even possible. Conditional attacks are relatively new as well from what I understand, so it might be something in the making but hasn't arrived yet.

Also, I am Pretty sure that my bombardment idea will work with the current XML setup... But, hey. I've been wrong before.
It would actually be quite similar to the XML required for "the bomb" on Krazy Kingdoms. In order to use it you have to hold a radiation territ and defeat the neutral on the bomb itself, then bombard away! Take a look at the Krazy Kingdoms thread to see some upcoming changes to that map that show what kind of things can be done. pretty cool stuff!

[JamesKer1]

Alright, might just be me not paying much attention to updates. I don't really get KK, so if it's on there I've totally missed it

[generalhead]

I am not a very good person to make a comment on game play but as far as graphics the legends are hard to read and understand. The graphics in general are very good. Your use of your graphics manipulation program is awesome. Saying that this map does not speak futuristic to me. When Iook at this map it could take place during any time period. This map is a little bland in the aspect of being futuristic. This is basically a pretty map with circles and triangles. I would like to see some more futuristic images incorporated into the map to make the story match the map.

[DearCyrus]

Thanks for the input GH... I appreciate your commendation greatly! What would say futuristic to you? I am really trying to get that down. Through pm someone said making it appear on a console would help, and I feel it has. In the end though this map is a "new versus old" and should incorporate both... Any ideas how to pull this off would be great!

[generalhead]

The year is 3031. The Human race has Just extended to its sixth planet. But the further they expand their grip on the universe the more friction they are getting from an unknown race they call the Zerg. No one has ever seen a Zerg but we have seen their ships.The government thinks the Zerg is threatened by us and they dont want us to expand into the universe. The sixth planet we have inhabited Belfast is the furthest away from earth and the closest to where the Zerg seem to come from. Worried about this The government has mandated that three pulsar cannons be placed around belfast. That was priority number one. The second priority is to set up the six mining towers. Our last line of defense is the Kazai ship, The one that brought us to this planet. This ship is loaded with weapons and can give us and escape if we need it. Man I hope we don't get attacked by the Zerg.

Click image to enlarge.

Maybe this will still some ideas in your head.
You could put a huge neutral on the big ships and have them be able to attack at a good distances.
you could have a smaller neutral on the pulsar cannons and have them be able to attack shorter than the ships
You could have a mining tower bonus
You could also have a small ship bonus, own three ships of the same color and receive x bonus.

I hope this helps

[generalhead]

Here are two more that were quickly done but will maybe give you inspiration

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

[generalhead]

Your telports too should have some different symbol or picture so they stand out.
Mainly the pictures I superimposed on your map were laser cannons, space ships and towers. I forgot to do something to represent the teleporters.