Panama Map

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Panama Map

Postby lanyards on Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:34 am

Version 3:
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======================================================================
I am starting a Panama Map. Here is my first draft:
Image
I just guessed at what the bonuses should be and I don't have territory names yet. And yes, the map is 630 pixels wide. Feedback is appreciated.

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Last edited by lanyards on Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby gimil on Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:40 am

For a start you may have to tweek some colors there a few im stuggling to identify with the legends :(

But im intrested :). Ill be keeping am eye on you buddy.
What do you know about map making, bitch?

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Postby Riazor on Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:43 am

Another straightforward map, nice!

I agree with gimil on the colors and the legend, but thats easily solved by arranging the legend so the left continent is first in the legend, and so onwards to the right one (bottom of the legend)

Im not sure about the gameplay.. But there is one thing, I dont really like 1-border countries alot, but thats a matter of personal preference.
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Postby lanyards on Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:45 am

gimil wrote:For a start you may have to tweek some colors there a few im stuggling to identify with the legends :(

But im intrested :). Ill be keeping am eye on you buddy.
Thanks, I think it might be a fun map for Assassin games, because it is like a straight line almost with some sea route short cuts. Like if your target was on the other side of the map, you could try to slip past everyone else by taking sea routes. And the other people could stop you by blocking the sea routes and forcing you to travel though lands. This map would be a new type of play I think. But which colors are you having trouble with? I'll fix them right away.

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Postby lanyards on Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:47 am

Riazor wrote:Im not sure about the gameplay.. But there is one thing, I dont really like 1-border countries alot, but thats a matter of personal preference.
Are you talking about the island with one border? Should it connect to somewhere else?

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Postby Riazor on Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:52 am

lanyards wrote:
Riazor wrote:Im not sure about the gameplay.. But there is one thing, I dont really like 1-border countries alot, but thats a matter of personal preference.
Are you talking about the islandwith one border? Should it connect to somewhere else?

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Yes thats the one i was talking about. It's just a matter of preference though, but I like the way classic is built up, no 1-border territories. I dont particularly dislike it, but Its too easy to block in escalating games :wink:

Adding another connection is not very simple of course, the most obvious solution is to connect it to the SW part of the purple continent, but that adds another border to the yellow continent to defend...

Are the countries/borders based on real geography, or are they your own creation? If you go for the no-1-border-territories, you could just redraw some borders if the latter was the case.

What is your opinion on it anyway, you're the map maker ;)
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Postby DiM on Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:54 am

i don't like the shape. too straight and too many bottle necks.
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Postby Riazor on Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:58 am

DiM wrote:i don't like the shape. too straight and too many bottle necks.


I was thinking the same, too many bottlenecks.
On the other hand, that makes for another strategy, and I believe that was kinda the intention as well.

Flat rate and no cards games will be difficult though, because you have to cross each continent to get to another one (one exception)
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Postby lanyards on Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:58 am

Riazor wrote:Yes thats the one i was talking about. It's just a matter of preference though, but I like the way classic is built up, no 1-border territories. I dont particularly dislike it, but Its too easy to block in escalating games :wink:

Adding another connection is not very simple of course, the most obvious solution is to connect it to the SW part of the purple continent, but that adds another border to the yellow continent to defend...

Are the countries/borders based on real geography, or are they your own creation? If you go for the no-1-border-territories, you could just redraw some borders if the latter was the case.

What is your opinion on it anyway, you're the map maker ;)
The borders are all made up. But the territory names will all be real places in Panama. But about the island, I really don't mind it too much. Its only one territory, and lots of other maps are like that. But if everyone thinks it would be best to attach it to somewhere else so it has 2 borders, then I think that the southwestern part of the purple place would be best.

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Postby MrBenn on Mon Feb 04, 2008 11:59 am

...
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Postby lanyards on Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:00 pm

DiM wrote:i don't like the shape. too straight and too many bottle necks.
That is the thing about it. It would require players to overcome it and play in a different way. Also, I added sea routes so you could get to the other side of the map easier.

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Postby DiM on Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:04 pm

people don't like bottle necks and they avoid them like the plague.

look at indochina. it has great graphics but nobody plays it becouse of the middle bottle neck. it's just bad.
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Postby lanyards on Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:06 pm

DiM wrote:people don't like bottle necks and they avoid them like the plague.

look at indochina. it has great graphics but nobody plays it becouse of the middle bottle neck. it's just bad.
I like Indochina. :cry: But it isn't really bottle necks, because of the sea routes. There are three ways to the other side. Two sea routes and through the land.

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Postby Hotdoggie on Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:10 pm

I'd play this map as it is now, an impressive first draft and I don't think it is too bottle necked...definately not as bad as Indonesia.

EDIT: maybe move the sea route at the top of the page which goes furthest to the left to the purple continent instead?

EDIT 2: maybe some ports? :)
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Postby DiM on Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:11 pm

lanyards wrote:
DiM wrote:people don't like bottle necks and they avoid them like the plague.

look at indochina. it has great graphics but nobody plays it becouse of the middle bottle neck. it's just bad.
I like Indochina. :cry: But it isn't really bottle necks, because of the sea routes. There are three ways to the other side. Two sea routes and through the land.

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yes but those ways are shaped like a bottle neck.

let's look at the classic map. from any continent you can move to the farthes continent by going through just one other.
NA to australia through asia
SA to asia through NA or Africa
NA to africa through SA or Europe.

on this map if you want to go from costa rica to colombia you have to pass through 3 out of 4 other continents
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Postby lanyards on Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:18 pm

DiM wrote:on this map if you want to go from costa rica to colombia you have to pass through 3 out of 4 other continents
It is the exact same distance from North America to Australia on the Classic Map as it is from Coasta Rica to Colombia on this map. On both, you have to cross 6 territories.

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Postby DiM on Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:36 pm

lanyards wrote:
DiM wrote:on this map if you want to go from costa rica to colombia you have to pass through 3 out of 4 other continents
It is the exact same distance from North America to Australia on the Classic Map as it is from Coasta Rica to Colombia on this map. On both, you have to cross 6 territories.

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i'm not talking about terits i'm talking about continents. it's 1 thing to break a defended border of a continent and then roam freely through undefended terits and it's another thing to break more defended borders.

let's see on classic. from alaska to indonesia you have to break kamchatka (defended border) then japan, mongolia, china and siam (defended border)

that's 2 defended borders and 3 undefended terits.

on this map you have to go through 5 defended borders and not a single undefended terit. so assuming i get a good drop in costarica and my target gets a good drop in columbia, to win the assassin game i must break a lot of borders which will leave me totally defenceless in case i fail to kill my target, not to mention that by breaking so many broders i leave other people defenceless and their assassins may take the victory.
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Postby lanyards on Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:42 pm

DiM wrote:
lanyards wrote:
DiM wrote:on this map if you want to go from costa rica to colombia you have to pass through 3 out of 4 other continents
It is the exact same distance from North America to Australia on the Classic Map as it is from Coasta Rica to Colombia on this map. On both, you have to cross 6 territories.

--lanyards


i'm not talking about terits i'm talking about continents. it's 1 thing to break a defended border of a continent and then roam freely through undefended terits and it's another thing to break more defended borders.

let's see on classic. from alaska to indonesia you have to break kamchatka (defended border) then japan, mongolia, china and siam (defended border)

that's 2 defended borders and 3 undefended terits.

on this map you have to go through 5 defended borders and not a single undefended terit. so assuming i get a good drop in costarica and my target gets a good drop in columbia, to win the assassin game i must break a lot of borders which will leave me totally defenceless in case i fail to kill my target, not to mention that by breaking so many broders i leave other people defenceless and their assassins may take the victory.
Well, do you have a better way fix the bottle necks? If you do, I'll probably use it, but the whole idea of crossing through everything is the thing about the map, a new gameplay. But I'll take any suggestions.

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Postby Hotdoggie on Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:48 pm

lanyards wrote:
DiM wrote:
lanyards wrote:
DiM wrote:on this map if you want to go from costa rica to colombia you have to pass through 3 out of 4 other continents
It is the exact same distance from North America to Australia on the Classic Map as it is from Coasta Rica to Colombia on this map. On both, you have to cross 6 territories.

--lanyards


i'm not talking about terits i'm talking about continents. it's 1 thing to break a defended border of a continent and then roam freely through undefended terits and it's another thing to break more defended borders.

let's see on classic. from alaska to indonesia you have to break kamchatka (defended border) then japan, mongolia, china and siam (defended border)

that's 2 defended borders and 3 undefended terits.

on this map you have to go through 5 defended borders and not a single undefended terit. so assuming i get a good drop in costarica and my target gets a good drop in columbia, to win the assassin game i must break a lot of borders which will leave me totally defenceless in case i fail to kill my target, not to mention that by breaking so many broders i leave other people defenceless and their assassins may take the victory.
Well, do you have a better way fix the bottle necks? If you do, I'll probably use it, but the whole idea of crossing through everything is the thing about the map, a new gameplay. But I'll take any suggestions.

--lanyards


As I said earlier, have some ports.
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Postby DiM on Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:56 pm

lanyards wrote:Well, do you have a better way fix the bottle necks? If you do, I'll probably use it, but the whole idea of crossing through everything is the thing about the map, a new gameplay. But I'll take any suggestions.

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i'm always excited about a new gameplay as long as it is fair. but as i said the bottlenecks will only increase the importance of initial deployment. in assassin games a guy may have a target closer than somebody else.

or imagine a 6p doubles game where 1 team gets a drop in the middle. they die quickly.

to be honest i'm a bit short on making suggestions to fix this because the first thing that comes to mind is more water routes or even a helipad link like the malta map. but while it will open up the map it will also create too many borders and make continents impossible to hold.

you already have very few secure zones.
Code: Select all
               borders/terits
costa rica           3/3
chiriqui             4/6
veraguas             5/6
colon                3/4
darien               4/4
colombia             2/4

so basically out of 27 terits only 6 are safe and 21 are borders.

add more water routes and the continents truly become impossible. leave it like this and you have a bottleneck horror. i'm afraid it's simply a poor choice of country. and to be honest i think the only way to turn things around and make this playable is to get rid of the classic gameplay and go for something else. like resources and stuff. but if you do that then the very small number of terits will be a big problem.
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Postby lanyards on Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:58 pm

Hotdoggie wrote:As I said earlier, have some ports.
Sorry, didn't see that. That will probably work. I'll see if it works in the next update.

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Postby DiM on Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:01 pm

lanyards wrote:
Hotdoggie wrote:As I said earlier, have some ports.
Sorry, didn't see that. That will probably work. I'll see if it works in the next update.

--lanyards


adding more ports and thus more routes will make the continents impossible to hold (some are already very hard). read my above post
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Postby fumandomuerte on Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:03 pm

Costa Rica not CoAsta Rica... :wink:
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Postby Unit_2 on Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:03 pm

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Postby lanyards on Mon Feb 04, 2008 1:10 pm

DiM wrote:
lanyards wrote:
Hotdoggie wrote:As I said earlier, have some ports.
Sorry, didn't see that. That will probably work. I'll see if it works in the next update.

--lanyards


adding more ports and thus more routes will make the continents impossible to hold (some are already very hard). read my above post
What if I put docks or ports on territories that are already defending borders? Then you would still need to defend the same amount of territories for the bonuses.

--lanyards
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