[Abandoned] - Isthmus of Panama

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[Abandoned] - Isthmus of Panama

Postby wcaclimbing on Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:23 am

Here's another update!
V.3.
Just a small update with a few changes.

Stuff done:
Changed the text for the "Ports" box.
Moved the port from Jague to Quibdo
Moved the port from Montena to Yavisa.
Added a port to Pocri.
Changed bonus numbers.

Things left to do:
Fix any more gameplay/graphics problems.
Write XML.
???
QUENCH!

Discussion questions:
What should each continent bonus be worth?
Are there any other problems with the graphics?

Click image to enlarge.
image



Previous updates:
V2 [clicky]
V1 [clicky]

----------------------------------------------
v original post v
The Panama map originally started out with Lanyards creating it here: [clicky]
That thread didn't go too well, so he gave me permission to start my own version of it.
This new version is quite a bit different than the version Lanyards originally started with. I'm hoping it can get around some of the gameplay problems that he had in his own thread.

The image should be pretty self-explanitory. Nothing too complicated.
28 Territories
6 Continents.
Standard Gameplay.
The territory names are directly from Lanyard's version.

[original image clicky]

Feel free to comment.

:D
Last edited by wcaclimbing on Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:35 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Isthmus of Panama

Postby Qwert on Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:31 am

to little territory maybe?
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Re: Isthmus of Panama

Postby wcaclimbing on Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:37 am

qwert wrote:to little territory maybe?

Doodle and Lux both had 18.
Duck and Cover has 24.
This map has 28. At least its not the smallest.
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Re: Isthmus of Panama

Postby jiminski on Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:43 am

Very attractive map WC

There are probably enough territories and as just discussed with Chip, the ports mean that it is not completely linear.

Perhaps you could add one or 2 island territories?

I 'think' that the bonus's need a little work .. but the layout is not conventional so perhaps the multiple borders mean unusually high bonus values .. in particular for the Green bonus (Darien)

anyway, very nice map
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Re: Isthmus of Panama

Postby chipv on Sat Aug 30, 2008 11:31 am

I like the look of the map, personally, good job.

I have only a few points to make really:

No impassables. The whole map is a virtual straight line, so I think maybe there should be some sort of stopper somewhere.

Pocri looks redundant to me since it borders Chitre which is also an internal territory bordered by Tonosi.

One way to solve this is to move the port from Penonome to Pocri.

The map is also fiendishly difficult to hold onto bonuses. You could add impassables also to make it a little easier for continent holding.

The islands are internal, maybe have an island that could be attacked externally, don't know for a 28 territory map.

I'm not sure how 1v1 and team games might go - a decent drop and the game is virtually over as is.

Good job!
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Re: Isthmus of Panama

Postby ZeakCytho on Sat Aug 30, 2008 12:54 pm

That ocean texture looks familiar... :-k ...*cough*

;)

The first thing that strikes me is that this is a lovely map. The second thing that strikes me is that the anchor/port graphics look really out of place with the style of this map.

Instead of having a minimap and then a box above that gives the names, could you make the minimap larger and put the names on it directly?
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Re: Isthmus of Panama

Postby hulmey on Sat Aug 30, 2008 2:32 pm

To be honest lanyards looks nicer than this one! I think your talents could be better spent making a great map with a great ideas and gameplay!
[img]http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/9761/41922610151374166770386.jpg[/mg]
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Re: Isthmus of Panama

Postby Unit_2 on Sat Aug 30, 2008 3:54 pm

Good job, but look at the border toward the water in "Montena".
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Re: Isthmus of Panama

Postby wcaclimbing on Sat Aug 30, 2008 6:32 pm

Comments in RED
jiminski wrote:Very attractive map WC Thanks!

There are probably enough territories and as just discussed with Chip, the ports mean that it is not completely linear.

Perhaps you could add one or 2 island territories? maybe. I don't know if there are other islands around there. I haven't looked at a real map of the place yet.

I 'think' that the bonus's need a little work .. but the layout is not conventional so perhaps the multiple borders mean unusually high bonus values .. in particular for the Green bonus (Darien) So, are you saying raise the bonuses or lower them?

anyway, very nice map Thanks again.


chipv wrote:I like the look of the map, personally, good job.

I have only a few points to make really:

No impassables. The whole map is a virtual straight line, so I think maybe there should be some sort of stopper somewhere. The map is already really small, I don't think adding impassables would help it any. It might become unplayable, with every path being only one territory wide. Too many bottlenecks, I think.

Pocri looks redundant to me since it borders Chitre which is also an internal territory bordered by Tonosi. I think its ok. Just an extra territory. Carepa and Turbo are the same way, I think.

One way to solve this is to move the port from Penonome to Pocri. maybe, but I think that move would make the center of the map too unaccessable from the sides. Penonome is bordering the red continent, moving the port away from there would bring red lots of added protection, because getting ro red without the port on Penonome would require crossing through a lot of territories to reach it.

The map is also fiendishly difficult to hold onto bonuses. You could add impassables also to make it a little easier for continent holding.

The islands are internal, maybe have an island that could be attacked externally, don't know for a 28 territory map. I could add an attack line from San Miguel (one of the islands) to Jague, as well as keep the other two lines the island already has. That would bring some interesting gameplay. With the limited attack routes on the map, that island would become very powerful, because it would have very good access to the center of the map. I like the idea, do you?

I'm not sure how 1v1 and team games might go - a decent drop and the game is virtually over as is. Yeah..... thats one thing we'll have to figure out. Do you think the solution would be to lower bonus armies? So then you get a huge advantage for going first in a game, eliminating some of the problems 1v1 might have.

Good job!


ZeakCytho wrote:That ocean texture looks familiar... :-k ...*cough* Yep. It does. :lol: ;)

;)

The first thing that strikes me is that this is a lovely map. The second thing that strikes me is that the anchor/port graphics look really out of place with the style of this map. I'll see what I can do. Do you think simplifying the graphics of the anchors would make them look better?

Instead of having a minimap and then a box above that gives the names, could you make the minimap larger and put the names on it directly? The problem I see there is that there isn't any empty space to put that larger box into, without making the map taller. But making it taller would leave it with tons of empty water space (and a ton of extra work for me to extend all the graphics :roll: )


hulmey wrote:To be honest lanyards looks nicer than this one! I think your talents could be better spent making a great map with a great ideas and gameplay!
heh.... :cry: I've already got Oasis and Glacier, this is the first traditional map I've made. If you want another unique gameplay map, PM me your ideas.


Unit_2 wrote:Good job, but look at the border toward the water in "Montena". Good catch. That is part of some random scribbling I did... forgot to erase the lines....
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Re: Isthmus of Panama

Postby chipv on Sat Aug 30, 2008 7:52 pm

wcaclimbing wrote: So, are you saying raise the bonuses or lower them?


Colon (red) is the easiest to hold and I think Chiriqui is the hardest.

Red has no port so that's 4 less territories that can attack it leaving 3 territories that can be attacked in total.
All the other continents have ports so already 4 territories can attack them right off the bat.
Costa Rica can be attacked everywhere including the port so this is difficult to hold. 3 weak points out of 3 territories + port.
Chiriqui has 4 weak points from 6 + port
Veraguas has 4 weak points from 6 + port
Darien has 4 weak points from 4 + port
Columbia has 2 weak points from 4 + port

So from this Chiriqui and Veraguas maybe should have the same bonus.
Red is easiest so should be the least.
Then Columbia
Then Costa Rica
Then Darien
Then Chiriqui and Veraguas


chipv wrote:I like the look of the map, personally, good job.

The islands are internal, maybe have an island that could be attacked externally, don't know for a 28 territory map. I could add an attack line from San Miguel (one of the islands) to Jague, as well as keep the other two lines the island already has. That would bring some interesting gameplay. With the limited attack routes on the map, that island would become very powerful, because it would have very good access to the center of the map. I like the idea, do you?


San Miguel to Jague, I like personally. That would affect the bonuses again, maybe.

I'm not sure how 1v1 and team games might go - a decent drop and the game is virtually over as is. Yeah..... thats one thing we'll have to figure out. Do you think the solution would be to lower bonus armies? So then you get a huge advantage for going first in a game, eliminating some of the problems 1v1 might have.

Good job!


Yeah, keep the bonuses low, it's a small map. Maybe a 5 is just too much for this map. Even 4, not sure.

I like having the islands. Still thinking about whether or not to have an attack route to Isla de Coba. If you had another island next to it, that would make kills more difficult, which might be good.
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Re: Isthmus of Panama

Postby InkL0sed on Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:25 pm

Sorry, I haven't read the thread (short though it may be), but I have a simple suggestion: connect San Miguel to Jague?
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Re: Isthmus of Panama

Postby ZeakCytho on Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:27 pm

InkL0sed wrote:Sorry, I haven't read the thread (short though it may be), but I have a simple suggestion: connect San Miguel to Jague?


Been suggested already ;)
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Re: Isthmus of Panama

Postby wcaclimbing on Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:36 pm

ZeakCytho wrote:
InkL0sed wrote:Sorry, I haven't read the thread (short though it may be), but I have a simple suggestion: connect San Miguel to Jague?


Been suggested already ;)


And it is going to be done in the next update.
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Re: Isthmus of Panama

Postby chipv on Sat Aug 30, 2008 8:57 pm

revised bonus text (now that I have read the ports on the same body of water box and looked again to find my last post was garbage...)

Bonuses should probably be lower on such a small map. Gives too much advantage in 1v1 and teams.
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Re: Isthmus of Panama

Postby wcaclimbing on Sat Aug 30, 2008 9:00 pm

chipv wrote:revised bonus text (now that I have read the ports on the same body of water box and looked again to find my last post was garbage...)

Bonuses should probably be lower on such a small map. Gives too much advantage in 1v1 and teams.


Ok.
I'll probably drop them all down to 2 or 3, maybe a 4 somewhere.
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Re: Isthmus of Panama

Postby wcaclimbing on Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:51 pm

So, on the topic of the port symbols..... should I change them or leave them like they are now.

I would be fine either way, changed or not. ZeakCytho suggest change, other people have suggested no change. I'd appreciate another comment or two on the topic, to help me decide.

And more suggestions for bonus armies would be nice also. Just remember that in the next version San Miguel will be able to attack Jague.

I think I'll get an update for this sometime over the weekend.
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Re: Isthmus of Panama

Postby MrBenn on Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:29 pm

If I had my way, I'd change the port symbols you've currently got - they don't fit well with the rest of the map.
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Re: Isthmus of Panama

Postby MrBenn on Sat Oct 18, 2008 5:15 pm

This map has been moved into retirement.

It would appear that development of this map has stalled, as there have not been any updates for some time.

If the mapmaker wants to continue with the map, then one of the CAs will be able to help put the thread back into the Foundry system ;-)

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Re: Isthmus of Panama

Postby wcaclimbing on Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:07 pm

I'm taking this back out of retirement, cause it will be pretty easy to finish.
At least, I hope it will be easy to finish...

Changes:
The graphics behind the title.
New Port icons.
San Miguel can attack Jague.
Aligned the bonus box with the continent names box.
Fixed a few other small issues.

Stuff left to do:
Change bonus armies.
Write XML.
???
QUENCH!

Discussion topics:
What should each continent bonus be worth?
Are there any other problems with the graphics?

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Re: Isthmus of Panama --- New Update 11/8/08 (page 1 and 2)

Postby InkL0sed on Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:10 pm

I think you should connect Pocri to Jague, and move that legend thing that would be in the way to below Veraguas.

Or maybe just add a port to Pocri.

Oh, and come to think of it, if you do that, you might want to consider moving the port on Jague to Quibdo, since Jague would start to become a major choking point, and make that continent much harder to hold.
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Re: Isthmus of Panama --- New Update 11/8/08 (page 1 and 2)

Postby MrBenn on Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:17 pm

[Advanced Draft]
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Re: Isthmus of Panama --- New Update 11/8/08 (page 1 and 2)

Postby InkL0sed on Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:17 pm

Sorry for the double post, but I was looking at the continent bonuses, and Costa Rica looks bad to me. On the one hand, it will always have three borders in a small map, but on the other hand, it's still 3 territories. It's not so unlikely that someone may get it on the drop.

I think the solution is to make it +2, and move the port on Limon to Almirante.
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Re: Isthmus of Panama --- New Update 11/8/08 (page 1 and 2)

Postby Digital Jihad on Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:55 pm

InkL0sed wrote:Or maybe just add a port to Pocri.

Agreed.
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Re: Isthmus of Panama --- New Update 11/8/08 (page 1 and 2)

Postby wcaclimbing on Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:18 pm

comments in blue
InkL0sed wrote:I think you should connect Pocri to Jague, and move that legend thing that would be in the way to below Veraguas.

Or maybe just add a port to Pocri. I think adding a port to Pocri would work best.

Oh, and come to think of it, if you do that, you might want to consider moving the port on Jague to Quibdo, since Jague would start to become a major choking point, and make that continent much harder to hold. I'll do that also.


InkL0sed wrote:Sorry for the double post, but I was looking at the continent bonuses, and Costa Rica looks bad to me. On the one hand, it will always have three borders in a small map, but on the other hand, it's still 3 territories. It's not so unlikely that someone may get it on the drop.

I think the solution is to make it +2, and move the port on Limon to Almirante. I could, but then we'd have to ports bordering each other. I'd like to leave it on Limon, so it is more difficult to hold it.

Right now, I think the bonuses will be changed to 2-3-4-3-3-2 (with a port on Pocri). Is that ok with you guys?
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Re: Isthmus of Panama --- New Update 11/8/08 (page 1 and 2)

Postby Digital Jihad on Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:47 pm

wcaclimbing wrote:comments in blue
InkL0sed wrote:I think you should connect Pocri to Jague, and move that legend thing that would be in the way to below Veraguas.

Or maybe just add a port to Pocri. I think adding a port to Pocri would work best.

Oh, and come to think of it, if you do that, you might want to consider moving the port on Jague to Quibdo, since Jague would start to become a major choking point, and make that continent much harder to hold. I'll do that also.


InkL0sed wrote:Sorry for the double post, but I was looking at the continent bonuses, and Costa Rica looks bad to me. On the one hand, it will always have three borders in a small map, but on the other hand, it's still 3 territories. It's not so unlikely that someone may get it on the drop.

I think the solution is to make it +2, and move the port on Limon to Almirante. I could, but then we'd have to ports bordering each other. I'd like to leave it on Limon, so it is more difficult to hold it.

Right now, I think the bonuses will be changed to 2-3-4-3-3-2 (with a port on Pocri). Is that ok with you guys?

Yep that sounds the best.
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