SFR Yugoslavia [Quenched]

[koontz1973]

Hey guys, I'm afraid I'm going to have to go with my gut instinct with this one...

The army circles may not be the most theme-appropriate thing ever, but they actually improve the clarity of the map - and they blend in with the map unlike any other army circles I've seen. I don't think any other army circle type could fit this map as well.

If the idea that someone would carve small hemispheroid holes in a wall painting of a map bothers you, maybe you can just pretend that the army circles are painted on? I don't know. I just really like them. It's like you can imagine placing little marbles into those holes.

Loved them since you first did them. They fit the map really well. It is as if someone took a drill to a wall and could not get very far.

[cairnswk]

Natty...i'm not a big fan of the legend, flag and Tito corner. It doesn't sit well on map overall and i hate that it covers the sea route line...perhaps jiggle a little with it, move things around a bit to see if some better design can be done with it...i don't know what to offer there but i am sure you'll find something if you desire to.
the rest of the map is beautiful and very "your style" congrats on that part. i totally like the circles and they don't look out of place.

[natty dread]

Thanks cairns.

Yeah I know, the legend poster didn't really turn out as I wanted it to, and I'm not really sure how to get it the way I'd want it to be...

I'm going to have to play with it some more, I guess.

[iancanton]

the gameplay is looking pretty good, with use being made of the xml to limit the number of starting capitals. perhaps u can add an extra region to slovenia (by splitting east slovenia into stajerska and gorenjska in the south), so that it doesn't serve the function of classic oceania so much? some mountains on bosnia's border with montenegro will also provide some protection for the central players, reducing the feeling in multiplayer games that u must start from the extremities to win.

ian.

[natty dread]

the gameplay is looking pretty good, with use being made of the xml to limit the number of starting capitals. perhaps u can add an extra region to slovenia (by splitting east slovenia into stajerska and gorenjska in the south), so that it doesn't serve the function of classic oceania so much? some mountains on bosnia's border with montenegro will also provide some protection for the central players, reducing the feeling in multiplayer games that u must start from the extremities to win.

ian.

I don't know - I'd rather keep Slovenia as 3 territories: the left side of the map doesn't really have any other good bonuses, and if I make Slovenia any weaker then the right side would be too powerful. Macedonia + Kosovo is already a pretty strong place to start, with good expansion potential to Serbia - Slovenia being an easy to take, easy to hold bonus on the western edge balances this somewhat. Also, Slovenia is a quick and easy bonus, but it has less expansion potential - you can either take Zagreb for the capital bonus, or go for the ports, but that's it... and neither is as good as holding Serbia, Macedonia and Kosovo.

I could add some impassable in Montenegro though... that might be a good way to make it a bit more viable. If I put an impassable between Niksic & Trebinje, making Montenegro 2 borders, would it be better to reduce it's bonus to 2, or keep it at 3?

[natty dread]

Ok... I haven't yet figured out what to do with the legend, so I'm leaving it be for now until I can think of something.

I added a little mountain between Bosnia & Montenegro, though. Now should I reduce Montenegro's bonus to 2? Or keep it at 3 for being in a central location? I don't know...

Click image to enlarge.

[koontz1973]

I added a little mountain between Bosnia & Montenegro, though. Now should I reduce Montenegro's bonus to 2? Or keep it at 3 for being in a central location? I don't know...

Reduce to 2 I would think. Less territs than the other 2 bonus regions but has the same amount of openings (apart from Slovenia). Just an opinion.

[theBastard]

2 would be better for Montenegro now.

[natty dread]

Yes, 2 would fit it better.

The only thing is, I would like to have one bonus area of 3 on the map...

[theBastard]

Yes, 2 would fit it better.

The only thing is, I would like to have one bonus area of 3 on the map...

if you divide East Slovenia to two regions (so Slovenia will has 4 regions) it would be +3 for Slovenia. and maybe this new region would not has border...

[koontz1973]

East Slovenia divides up nice and easy and it might help balance the top half of the map a little.
Right now it has only one small region compared to the south's 3.

Another option would be Macedonia with its 5 territs, is the largest of the small bonus areas.

[natty dread]

I don't want Slovenia to be 4 territories. That would mean that the only smaller bonuses would be on the right side of the map. Slovenia is there as a balance, a quick and easy bonus on the left side. If it's territories are increased, I'm afraid it will just make the whole left side of the map a useless wasteland.

Macedonia has no business being +3 either. It's too isolated, it has excellent expansion potential... easy to defend. Increasing it to +3 would make it way too imbalanced.

I guess I can live with there not being a +3 bonus. There's the port bonus, after all...

On the other hand: Vojvodina as +3 might be feasible. It doesn't have much potential for expansion, so giving it a higher bonus might be suitable.

[theBastard]

On the other hand: Vojvodina as +3 might be feasible. It doesn't have much potential for expansion, so giving it a higher bonus might be suitable.

but Vojvodina needs to secure just two regions, while Slovenia all three to hold bonus...

[natty dread]

Not true, Slovenia can easily be held with 2 borders, all you need to do is take Primorje-Gorski.

In fact Slovenia and Vojvodina are pretty much equal in all aspects, except that Vojvodina is in a more central location.

If I add a bridge between South Banat & Belgrade, it would give both Serbia & Vojvodina 1 more border, then I could increase Vojvodina to 3.

But on the other hand, Vojvodina might be more useful as a 2/2 area... also, adding another border to Serbia would decrease it's value, so I'm not really sure if I should do it.

[natty dread]

Oh hey I figured out a solution:

Click image to enlarge.

- Vojvodina is now +3 and has 3 borders. Serbia has the same amount of borders, but Belgrade is now a border instead of Podrinje.
- Also, bridge configurations are altered somewhat - Doboj now connects to Syrmia.

[koontz1973]

Nice and even now. Good solution.
I hate to bring this up as you have just done it, but can you move the bridge around the bend (above Belgrade) as it looks like it sits on top of the star.

[theBastard]

looking good. I was thought about this

maybe the bridge from Slavonia would goes to Banja Luka, not to Doboj.

[natty dread]

maybe the bridge from Slavonia would goes to Banja Luka, not to Doboj.

Why?

I hate to bring this up as you have just done it, but can you move the bridge around the bend (above Belgrade) as it looks like it sits on top of the star.

Yeah I'll do that at some point.

[theBastard]

maybe the bridge from Slavonia would goes to Banja Luka, not to Doboj.

Why?

looking better for me. Doboj is in centre of map, who holds Doboj will blocks many entries (Bosnia-Vojvodina, Bosnia-Croatia). the bridge from Banja Luka to Slavonia gives the second way (first is Doboj-Syrmia) to north/east.

[natty dread]

maybe the bridge from Slavonia would goes to Banja Luka, not to Doboj.

Why?

looking better for me. Doboj is in centre of map, who holds Doboj will blocks many entries (Bosnia-Vojvodina, Bosnia-Croatia). the bridge from Banja Luka to Slavonia gives the second way (first is Doboj-Syrmia) to north/east.

Territories that can block entries to places are very useful, for example in escalating games - they can be used strategically to prevent one player eliminating another. Also, moving the bridge would make Bosnia too hard to hold - currently, you can hold it with 4 borders if you hold Karlovac, if the bridge is moved then it would be 5. I already have one "Asia" on the map (Croatia) and I don't think it needs another.

However, I'm considering adding a bridge between Doboj & Titovo: Currently, if you hold Pljevlja & Trebinje, you can hold the whole southeast part (Macedonia-Kosovo-Serbia) with only 3 borders, also you can add Montenegro to that and still hold it with 3 borders if you hold Trebinje. A bridge between Titovo & Doboj would make it 4 in both cases, and it would also make it easier to reach Serbia from the north-northwest.

[koontz1973]

Both Serbia and Bosnia have 5 borders now so adding the extra bridge should not cause any problems but adding an extra path is always good.

[natty dread]

Ok, I think the gameplay is done now. I don't want to change anything more, I think it's perfect as it is now.

Click image to enlarge.

GP stamp would be nice!

[isaiah40]

Move the bridge from Dobojo - Titovo to Dobojo - Podrinje. In this was you would have 5 territories to defend 4 bonuses for a total of 10 instead of 4 territories to defend 4 bonuses.

[natty dread]

Move the bridge from Dobojo - Titovo to Dobojo - Podrinje. In this was you would have 5 territories to defend 4 bonuses for a total of 10 instead of 4 territories to defend 4 bonuses.

No, see, that would again increase the borders of Serbia alone. I don't want to make Serbia harder to hold by itself. Besides you could still hold Trebinje and defend the 4 bonuses with 4 borders.

4 borders is acceptable I think - if you manage to conquer all that land, you're in a pretty strong position anyway. That's a +14 bonus for 4 borders, not counting the territory bonus, which makes it strong but not undefeatable - especially if the opposition holds Slovenia, Croatia & Bosnia - which makes for a +18 bonus (not counting territories) for 5 borders.

This is a pretty bonus-heavy map, but I like it that way - it makes for games where you can't just shoot blindly at your opposition, but have to work to secure and hold a bonus... and either way, it's not like it's easy to conquer all that land that would give you the large bonuses - you only get really large bonuses when you manage to hold multiple bonuses, thanks to the capital bonus. I'd like this map to function both as a team map and a multiplayer map, and I think the bonus-heaviness helps to accomplish that.

Anyway, beta will tell if this plays out the way I expect, but I have a pretty good feeling about this.

[natty dread]

I might reduce Serbia to 4 though.