Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

[dacey]

Hi all,
I know this map isn't in beta anymore, but I have to say that the description is a bit misleading. I just started a game with it and had no idea what was going on...The "Region number bonus: 1 troop for every 2 regions above 6" is ambiguous at best. My guess was that one would get the normal region bonus for their first six regions, then one troop for every two regions thereafter (ie, +1 for 3 regions, +2 for 6, +3 for 8, +4 for 10,... with a minimum of three). A colleague read it as a bonus (ie, 1 troop for every 3 regions + a BONUS 1 troop for every two regions). And, if you take the actual literal translation of what is written, it should be no troops for less than six regions---since you are apparently replacing the standard (1 troop for every 3 regions with a minimum of 3 troops), you really need to add that there is a minimum of three, or at least note that you are replacing the standard deploy (perhaps by not calling it a bonus).

I glanced back a bit at the discussion (maybe 10-15 pages), and others mentioned this topic. It appeared to have quite a bit of support. Why wasn't anything done to fix this problem? You should be able to understand the rules before you join the game.

i don't see a problem with the wording. it was perfectly understandable to me.

It's not really a problem for the people whose interpretation of the bonus is what the author was apparently going for. The problem is that there are clearly multiple interpretations, and the instruction makes an assumption without noting it. It does not say anywhere that there is a minimum of three troops. If the plan is to ignore the standard region bonus, then you can't take it's minimum of three troops as a given (esp. since there are maps where there is not a minimum of three).

Looking back, there were a lot of really good suggestions for how to fix this. I personally liked "regions/2, min 3" since it takes up very little space and actually says what the authors were apparently going for (the division sign would look better if it were actually on top, but with images that's really easy)...

[ben79]

i was wondering if it was possible to have the same deployement as on the king's court map ... i played a 1 vs 1 on clandemonium and it took at least an hour to play it
i mean having only 2 starting positions instead of 5

[ManBungalow]

i was wondering if it was possible to have the same deployement as on the king's court map ... i played a 1 vs 1 on clandemonium and it took at least an hour to play it
i mean having only 2 starting positions instead of 5

In terms of the XML, this is a very minor, easy to make change, but convincing the developers to adopt it is the main hurdle.

So yes, it is possible. Only I don't think Blitzaholic posts here any more. Or something like that, anyway....

[Kabanellas]

I'm totally ok with it (actually, I prefer it)

[grifftron]

I think I posted this before, but it was talked about way back in the thread...

When can we update this to the top clans atm? Still think it would be cool to update it once every year or 2 years with the top ranking clans in place of the year before... although thinking of it again, it might confuse those who play the map a lot changing tert names and what not...

-griff

[Dukasaur]

i was wondering if it was possible to have the same deployement as on the king's court map ... i played a 1 vs 1 on clandemonium and it took at least an hour to play it
i mean having only 2 starting positions instead of 5

An hour for the whole game, or an hour for a turn?

I've had 1v1s on Clandemonium go more than two weeks, but even the most complicated turns didn't take more than 10 or 12 minutes along the way.

[thenobodies80]

i was wondering if it was possible to have the same deployement as on the king's court map ... i played a 1 vs 1 on clandemonium and it took at least an hour to play it
i mean having only 2 starting positions instead of 5

An hour for the whole game, or an hour for a turn?

I've had 1v1s on Clandemonium go more than two weeks, but even the most complicated turns didn't take more than 10 or 12 minutes along the way.

Damn! Your post has reminded me that I promised that fix to Kab long time ago.
Kab, I'll do it this weekend. Sorry for the delay....i totally forgot it.

Nobodies

[Victor Sullivan]

i was wondering if it was possible to have the same deployement as on the king's court map ... i played a 1 vs 1 on clandemonium and it took at least an hour to play it
i mean having only 2 starting positions instead of 5

An hour for the whole game, or an hour for a turn?

I've had 1v1s on Clandemonium go more than two weeks, but even the most complicated turns didn't take more than 10 or 12 minutes along the way.

Damn! Your post has reminded me that I promised that fix to Kab long time ago.
Kab, I'll do it this weekend. Sorry for the delay....i totally forgot it.

Nobodies

*Insert typical inappropriate response about nobodies' getting disapproval/disciplinary action that could potentially be interpreted as mildly sexual by an old man in pink*

-Sully

[thenobodies80]

I've updated the xml (max 2 positions for each players). Kab, if it is ok for you I'll send it to the turtle.

the link is the same you have in the first post, let me know

[Kabanellas]

Thanks a lot NB!!!! you're the man!!!!

[thenobodies80]

Updated, let me know how it works

[Dukasaur]

It's absolutely terrible.

The nice part about having 5 starting points is that good/bad dice tend to average out, and everybody starts with an almost-level playing field. For this reason, Clandemonium was the ONLY "Conquest-type" map where strategy was more important than luck. Cutting it back to two starting points means it will be like every other Conquest-type map, all about lucky dice. First guy to get a good streak going and break past 6 terts wins.

[thenobodies80]

We can increase it. Kabanellas what do you think?

[Kabanellas]

that makes sense... the game-play mechanics here are quite different from King's Court, were cutting the starting points to 2 was an improvement. That can work the other way around for Clandemonium.

I'm ok with taking it all back...

[HighlanderAttack]

It's absolutely terrible.

The nice part about having 5 starting points is that good/bad dice tend to average out, and everybody starts with an almost-level playing field. For this reason, Clandemonium was the ONLY "Conquest-type" map where strategy was more important than luck. Cutting it back to two starting points means it will be like every other Conquest-type map, all about lucky dice. First guy to get a good streak going and break past 6 terts wins.

I totally agree here--why the change--I just read back starting from August 27th and I guess I missed why it was changed anyway. I didn't think large changes occurred to quenched maps like this.

[Blitzaholic]

hello highlanderattack and all, I was not made aware of any change, and I would hope to be included in the say since this is my concept before any changes become implemented.

please consider nobodies and kab, thank you.

perhaps shoot me a PM and let's discuss this!

[Jippd]

Yeah came here as well I do not like the change on clandemonium. 10280620 - I see no odds of me winning this as they're two drops surround one of mine and my other guy is way far away.

I also find it weird that a map that made it past final forge was changed with just one person requesting the change.

[patrickaa317]

I also find it weird that a map that made it past final forge was changed with just one person requesting the change.

+1

[natty dread]

I also find it weird that a map that made it past final forge was changed with just one person requesting the change.

+1

There's nothing weird about it, it's within the mapmakers' discretion to decide for changes after quenching, whether it's 1 person or 100 who's posting about it.

Also, just because only 1 person posted in the thread doesn't mean the mapmakers haven't received other feedback about it.

[Jippd]

I also find it weird that a map that made it past final forge was changed with just one person requesting the change.

+1

There's nothing weird about it, it's within the mapmakers' discretion to decide for changes after quenching, whether it's 1 person or 100 who's posting about it.

Also, just because only 1 person posted in the thread doesn't mean the mapmakers haven't received other feedback about it.

For the sake of debating to debate.

Weird by definition is something unusual.

Maps do not get major gameplay changes every day after they make it past final forge since I have been on the site, in fact I would say it is a rare or UNUSUAL event.

So, I guess the issue of whether it is weird or not depends on your definition of weird.

[natty dread]

For the sake of debating to debate.

Weird by definition is something unusual.

For the sake of debating...

An unusual occurence is something that doesn't happen often or regularly. A weird occurence is either something that has no explanation, or is inherently absurd or unnatural.

Maps do not get changed every day after they make it past final forge since I have been on the site, in fact I would say it is a rare or UNUSUAL event.

Which makes it unusual, but not weird.

So, I guess the issue of whether it is weird or not depends on your definition of weird.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/weird

weird
   [weerd] adjective, -er, -est, noun
adjective
1.
involving or suggesting the supernatural; unearthly or uncanny: a weird sound; weird lights.
2.
fantastic; bizarre: a weird getup.
3.
Archaic. concerned with or controlling fate or destiny.

Synonyms
1. unnatural, preternatural. weird, eerie, unearthly, uncanny refer to that which is mysterious and apparently outside natural law. Weird refers to that which is suggestive of the fateful intervention of supernatural influences in human affairs: the weird adventures of a group lost in the jungle. Eerie refers to that which, by suggesting the ghostly, makes one's flesh creep: an eerie moaning from a deserted house. Unearthly refers to that which seems by its nature to belong to another world: an unearthly light that preceded the storm. Uncanny refers to that which is mysterious because of its apparent defiance of the laws established by experience: an uncanny ability to recall numbers.

Antonyms
1. natural.

[Blitzaholic]

we may need to have 4 starting positions for 1 vs 1 games and dubs games, this may make it a little better for the player who does not go first? what you think on this kab? would this serve to be more helpful?


2 other things for ideas kab, see what you think here m8, see what others think as well.

1. deep lands 4 through 12 could all be 3 neutrals not 2?

2. Tofu 13, IA 12, ID 14, AoD 13, The Legion 14, LoW 09, Thota 13, Empire 14, BSS 13, TsM 13 = all could have a symbol on them representing clan leader land?

These territories are usually meaningless in most games, however, if it was a clan leader land with a cool symbol and a reward of an auto bonus of +1 for holding the land, and a auto bonus of +1 every round you hold it automatically, it may attract some to go for it, creating for more valuable areas to enrich the map. Or if there is not enough room in the key, you could make those territories of neutral 1's?


These changes could help aid in improving the map slightly? What do others think? What do you think Kab?

[Jippd]

Look at your definition of weird...point two...defined as bizarre...now look up the definition for bizarre.

Thank you

So unless your saying that the reference YOU posted which states weird as being defined as bizarre is wrong.. I guess my OP was correct

[natty dread]

Look at your definition of weird...point two...defined as bizarre...now look up the definition for bizarre.

Thank you

So unless your saying that the reference YOU posted which states weird as being defined as bizarre is wrong.. I guess my OP was correct

Look further down the definition of bizarre. The differences between bizarre and weird are outlined there:

Synonyms
Bizarre, fantastic, grotesque, weird share a sense of deviation from what is normal or expected. Bizarre means markedly unusual or extraordinarily strange, sometimes whimsically so: bizarre costumes for Mardi Gras; bizarre behavior. [...] Weird refers to that which is mysterious and apparently outside natural law, hence supernatural or uncanny: the weird adventures of a group lost in the jungle; a weird and ghostly apparition. Informally, weird means “very strange”: weird and wacky costumes; weird sense of humor.

[patrickaa317]

Has a map ever been pulled back into BETA status? I think with the recent changes and talks of new changes, perhaps it should be done with this one...