Celtic 7 Nations v4.0 [Quenched]!

[The Bison King]

I hadn't noticed the S, but now that it has been pointed out, I'd have to say "it just looks weird." I have a feeling to make the words look right, you may have to reposition or reduce the medallion so that it does not separate the words "Seven Nations", which can then be centered as a unit under "Celtic".

Man that was all porkand beans idea any way. I don't really care if the words are over the medalion. That being said I do like it how it is now, and I'm surprised that people find the small S so weird! It's just the plural s.

[ender516]

Yes, but it looks like you forgot to leave room and had to squeeze it in, like in the old humourous poster:

plan ahea
d

So, if you don't care if the words are on the medallion, then just rejoin "Seven Nations" with a normal s at the end and center it.

[The Bison King]

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

Ta-Da!

[Victor Sullivan]

Yay! To Final Forge, I say!

[RedBaron0]

I worried that the fancy letters aren't legible in the legend, and I agree with cairns that "Gaul" is in a fairly prominent positions, and should be shrunk down to a similar size as "Britannia."

[ender516]

The "Britannia" label could be moved south to the widest point and made larger, so "Gaul" perhaps would not need to be reduced in size quite so much. It might be necessary to reduce the opacity of a larger "Britannia" label to avoid drawing too much attention to a non-playable area.

[The Bison King]

I worried that the fancy letters aren't legible in the legend,

That's why I added the values onto the mini map.

and I agree with cairns that "Gaul" is in a fairly prominent positions, and should be shrunk down to a similar size as "Britannia."

I'm not sure. I like that Gaul is larger. It's a bigger area and the text reflects that, also I think it brings a nice visual balance. Besides, them being different sizes doesn't really imply anything that it shouldn't.

[DubWarrior]

Ta-Da!

you have a yes! here

[theBastard]

nice progress. it is close to final forge.
one notice, mostly you used region´s names in their original language, but regions in Ireland have English names and regions in Spain Latinised.

[natty dread]

I still agree with Rb0 - you should get rid of the fancy letters, not because they're not very legible, but they simply don't look that good - too much detail gets mashed up into pixel slurry ...

Currently they are the one thing that kinda ruins an otherwise great looking map.

[Victor Sullivan]

I still agree with Rb0 - you should get rid of the fancy letters, not because they're not very legible, but they simply don't look that good - too much detail gets mashed up into pixel slurry ...

Currently they are the one thing that kinda ruins an otherwise great looking map.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. I think the "fancy letters" tie in with the theme, and thus incorporate the legend more deeply into the style of the map, if that makes sense.

-Sully

[The Bison King]

Here's the thing about the letters, some people like them some people don't. I like them and enough people have stated it as their preference that I'm keeping them. To say that it "ruins" the map is a huge exaggeration.

and regions in Spain Latinised.

That's not true, those are the real names of Celtic tribes.

[RedBaron0]

With the numbers on the minimap why is there a list then? The listing is totally redundant now. Now you could put something into that space or just slide "Gaul further down into a less noticeable position.

[Victor Sullivan]

With the numbers on the minimap why is there a list then? The listing is totally redundant now. Now you could put something into that space or just slide "Gaul further down into a less noticeable position.

Just drop the +X's from the minimap. It'd look better that way anyways, I think.

[The Bison King]

We're going around in circles.

[tokle]

We're going around in circles.

Yeah. Not very productive, this. Everyone has their own idea about how it should be.
In the end, it's your call. So let's just go with it the way you want it and move on.

[Victor Sullivan]

We're going around in circles.

Yeah... I kinda missed the numbers on the mini map thing, I think. I think you should take them off, so the legend isn't quite so pointless, plus the numbers don't exactly match the fonts in the mini map.

[RedBaron0]

We're going around in circles.

The love is gone then I guess...

It's your choice man, the redundancy is glaring IMO, and creating a very cluttered legend area, especially for the large map with the extra names. You're probably best off with the listing and the names over the minimap without numbers, but you can go the other way with everything on the minimap and remove the listing, and do whatever with the empty space left behind.

The letter thing is a simple fix in the Forge if there's enough of a outcry about the letters, and same for the size of "Gaul." Moving or adding sections of legend isn't. I know it's cyclical... sometimes the road you travel down is a dead-end and you just need to back up to find the highway again. We've all been there. Make the call and let's move on.

[natty dread]

Look, I'm not saying the fancy letters look bad per se. They're nice letters. A nice font. However, as I'm sure you know, computer graphics consist of pixels, which are small squares that come in 16 million different colours. When you shrink something with high detail, you will eventually run to something I like to call "the event horizon of pixel slurry" where things just start going wrong. Very wrong.

Let's take for example, Rb0:s avatar, since it's conveniently handy there.



Now see what happens when I shrink it to 33%:



See what happens to details like the lines on snoopy's doghouse/airplane, the crosshairs, snoopy's face... if you zoom in to the shrinked image you'll notice they have deteriorated into unrecognizable pixel slurry.

The same problem is what happens to your letters. And I'm sorry to say this, but yes it does ruin the map, at least partially. When you do a piece of graphics that is supposed to look old, like you are imitating an old celtic map here, pixelation or any other highly computer-related flaw very much ruins it - it breaks the illusion. Sometimes we just have to accept the limitations of our current technology.

Ok that's all I'll say on the matter, I promise. I don't think I can make my point of view any clearer. It's your map, but I hope you'll at least consider this before deciding.

[The Bison King]

Look, I'm not saying the fancy letters look bad per se. They're nice letters. A nice font. However, as I'm sure you know, computer graphics consist of pixels, which are small squares that come in 16 million different colours. When you shrink something with high detail, you will eventually run to something I like to call "the event horizon of pixel slurry" where things just start going wrong. Very wrong.

Let's take for example, Rb0:s avatar, since it's conveniently handy there.



Now see what happens when I shrink it to 33%:



See what happens to details like the lines on snoopy's doghouse/airplane, the crosshairs, snoopy's face... if you zoom in to the shrinked image you'll notice they have deteriorated into unrecognizable pixel slurry.

The same problem is what happens to your letters. And I'm sorry to say this, but yes it does ruin the map, at least partially. When you do a piece of graphics that is supposed to look old, like you are imitating an old celtic map here, pixelation or any other highly computer-related flaw very much ruins it - it breaks the illusion. Sometimes we just have to accept the limitations of our current technology.

Ok that's all I'll say on the matter, I promise. I don't think I can make my point of view any clearer. It's your map, but I hope you'll at least consider this before deciding.

I seem to recall a point in the Orient Express thread were I repeatedly tried to make you change a certain aspect of the map. With every fiber of my being, and every tool of reason I had in my arsenal, I tried to tell you that it would make the map better, but you ignored me and decided to do what you wanted to do.

[The Bison King]

Also lot's of people have opinions. Here's one from each person whose chimed in on the subject:

Pro:

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. I think the "fancy letters" tie in with the theme, and thus incorporate the legend more deeply into the style of the map, if that makes sense.

-Sully

It looks good the way it is. I agree with your point on that. Unless we have something to replace it with, it should be left as is.

on this one, Im not sure why you are recieving flack, I lOVE how you restated the bonuses... I FRIGGIN HATE maps that I need to squint my eyes and read a book on the bonus system like in umm.. well know map names.

Con:

While a nice idea, I think the level of detail for something of that size is more than getting lost. It's making the letters difficult to read, thus a source of confusion

I still agree with Rb0 - you should get rid of the fancy letters, not because they're not very legible, but they simply don't look that good - too much detail gets mashed up into pixel slurry ...

Despite the fact that the people who disagree tend to repeat themselves more, there have been more people who like the letters.

[The Bison King]

Just for Shit's and giggles this is what I would do to fill the void. Honestly I think it's pretty boring and it beats the circle motif to death

Click image to enlarge.

[The Bison King]

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

Though Red Baron is correct and the love is gone, please don't assume that I'm basing my decision on spite. It should be really obvious if you read back through the thread that I've bee pro fancy letters for a really long time, and I'm not alone.

On this version I enlarged the letters yet again on the small, and I even went in a cleaned up some of the lines. I also removed the numbers off the mini map (another cyclical aspect of this process)

[RedBaron0]

Agreed. Your best move should then be to keep the list, as you see fit, and the minimap with just names, no numbers.... as you've just posted.

Okay this issue should be solved now, anything else here kids?

[ender516]

I think it's time for the Final Forge. There, we can answer the objections from everyone who can't find a way to look at a map before it reaches that stage. It would be nice if they were something different from what we have heard up to now, but I won't hold my breath.