Rorke's Drift. [QUENCHED]

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Rorke's Drift. [QUENCHED]

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:35 am

January 1879, around 4500 Zulu warriors attacked the tiny outpost of Rorke's Drift. Under the command of Chard and Bromhead, around 130 British and 20 Natal regulars defended the outpost for 2 whole days before relief.
In case you have never herd of this battle, watch the film Zulu.
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Re: Rourke's Drift (v1)

Postby Boler on Sat Jun 04, 2011 12:10 am

Interesting game play, it looks like it would work, but you would need a better opinion than mine for that.

Besides that, for a start I would make the warrior group's areas who have 3 warriors a shade darker than the ones with 2 warriors. It would make it easier to judge bonuses.

And the tree layer should be above the *rocks on edge of river* layer. One tree is underneath the rocks.
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Re: Rourke's Drift (v1)

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Jun 04, 2011 1:05 am

Boler wrote:Interesting game play, it looks like it would work, but you would need a better opinion than mine for that.

Besides that, for a start I would make the warrior group's areas who have 3 warriors a shade darker than the ones with 2 warriors. It would make it easier to judge bonuses.

And the tree layer should be above the *rocks on edge of river* layer. One tree is underneath the rocks.


Boler, thanks, did not spot the tree under the rock. :oops: That is an easy fix. :D

As for the bonus regions being different shades to make it easier to see warrior areas, again that can be done. Nice idea and thanks for suggesting it.
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Re: Rourke's Drift (V2)

Postby Bruceswar on Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:47 am

looking forward to seeing where this one goes
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Re: Rourke's Drift (V2)

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:34 am

Thanks Brucewar, going to make some minor changes to the current version and post that this evening/tomorrow. Better army circles for one with the neutrals showing. This would then become easier to read the map without having to read the whole first post. Change the size and font of the 11 British soldiers.


The things I am thinking of adding to version 3 are:

Hideouts - so territory C12 (example) which is within the 150 yard line become exempt from the -1 degrade.
Allowing the Zulu kings to be able to bombard within there own territories. (why be a king if you cannot boss your armies around)
Give certain territories a +1 auto deploy because of the river. (water is very important to this region)

Anything else to consider, now is the time.
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Re: Rourke's Drift (V2.1)

Postby Dibbler on Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:52 am

This looks very interesting and look forward to seeing this get done. Quick question for better understanding. What do you mean by degrading neutrals? Do you mean after they are taken they degrade as per normal or is there some other plan that you have?
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Re: Rourke's Drift (V2.1)

Postby natty dread on Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:10 am

Well, for a first draft this looks pretty good. Which graphics software are you using?

The first thing that I would advise is to get rid of all the line connections and replace them with territories & borders. Seriously, it's like a mess of lines there, making for a very confusing look, and you need to simplify this a lot - when I say simplify I don't mean the gameplay, but the visual look of the map... you need to make the map easier to read, and eliminating that criss-cross of lines is a good first step towards that.

Secondly, you have lots of pixelated lines. Depending on what software you're using, it may or may not be easy to fix.

Thirdly... you have the right idea with using textures on the map, but they will need some work. Especially the canvas effect on the right/upper right of the map - the left side looks like it's trying to imitate grassland terrain, so why would you have a paper/canvas type texture on the right? The cork texture on the legend is pretty nice though. But why is there a bare slab of grey in the middle? It looks bland compared to the rest of the map.

Anyway, keep on working, there's good potential here.
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Re: Rourke's Drift (V2.1)

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:18 pm

Dibbler wrote:This looks very interesting and look forward to seeing this get done. Quick question for better understanding. What do you mean by degrading neutrals? Do you mean after they are taken they degrade as per normal or is there some other plan that you have?


Version 3 has some major work still needed to it. Hopefully that will meet some expectations. Hope to get in the thread sometime next week.

The degrading neutrals is something that I am hoping to get an answer for, I have asked a mod and waiting for a reply. I am hoping that the neutrals will degrade every round. I know this is done with normal troops on some maps (Antarctica for one) but I need to see if it can be done with neutrals. If it cannot then I will think of a different way to compensate for the high neutral value. As I said, I want it to be hard to get into the outpost but not so hard that no one goes for it.
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Re: Rourke's Drift (V2.1)

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:24 pm

natty_dread wrote:Well, for a first draft this looks pretty good. Which graphics software are you using?

GIMP- from your recommendation and tutorial. :D

natty_dread wrote:The first thing that I would advise is to get rid of all the line connections and replace them with territories & borders. Seriously, it's like a mess of lines there, making for a very confusing look, and you need to simplify this a lot - when I say simplify I don't mean the gameplay, but the visual look of the map... you need to make the map easier to read, and eliminating that criss-cross of lines is a good first step towards that.

Less lines in version 3. Having spent a month looking at the map trying to get it simpler, I came to the same conclusion.

natty_dread wrote:Secondly, you have lots of pixelated lines. Depending on what software you're using, it may or may not be easy to fix.

Any tips to help solve this problem or a point in the right direction would be gratefully accepted.

natty_dread wrote:Thirdly... you have the right idea with using textures on the map, but they will need some work. Especially the canvas effect on the right/upper right of the map - the left side looks like it's trying to imitate grassland terrain, so why would you have a paper/canvas type texture on the right? The cork texture on the legend is pretty nice though. But why is there a bare slab of grey in the middle? It looks bland compared to the rest of the map.

Anyway, keep on working, there's good potential here.

The textures, I wholly agree do need work and some of the problems I believe are sorted for version 3. The big grey slab was a mistake. :oops:
Last edited by koontz1973 on Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rourke's Drift (V2.1)

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:26 pm

natty_dread wrote:You can have troops decaying by any amount, but it only works down to 1 troop, and it doesn't affect neutral troops, only player troops. The territory can start neutral, but the neutrals won't decay, only the player troops will after the territory is conquered.

Alternatively you can have killer neutrals, which are territories that reset to neutral at the beginning of your next turn.


From natty_dread. Looks like degrading neutrals are out so will come up with a new way to play thins.
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Re: Rourke's Drift (V2.1)

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:27 pm

Thanks to Dibbler and natty_dread for some pointers and help. Looks like a lot of work before version 3 is up.
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Re: Rourke's Drift (V2.1)

Postby natty dread on Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:51 pm

koontz1973 wrote:Any tips to help solve this problem or a point in the right direction would be gratefully accepted.


Well, I'd need to know how you draw your lines. Are you using the pencil tool by any chance? The pencil tool forces all brushes into 1-bit alpha, effectively disabling anti-aliasing. What this means in layman's terms is that it makes pixelated lines. Using the paintbrush tool is better for smooth lines.

Also, the brush you use also affects it. Using a square brush can cause some pixelation. A round one is better for lines most of the time.

You can also try the ink tool, you can't use brushes with it but it makes nice, smooth lines.

Experiment with the tools and settings until you get familiar with them. Try different tools and settings so that you see how changing a setting or tool affects the results. Remember that you can use different brushes, gradients, patterns, etc. with almost all of the tools. I've always felt that "learn by doing" is the most effective way to become good with graphics. Tutorials like mine can help you with the basics, but you really only get good with practice.
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Re: Rourke's Drift (V2.1)

Postby danfrank on Thu Jun 09, 2011 6:17 pm

The tops of the trees look cool.. Maybe add some dirt color around the bottom to set them into the map.. When i first looked i thought it was a herd .. -
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Re: Rourke's Drift (V.3)

Postby koontz1973 on Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:55 am

Version 3. Not current version. Look in first post for most recent changes.

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Things changes from version 2.1.

Minor Changes- Textures and Fonts. Some colours. Lines have now been changed to new style (less block y). Removed the degrading neutrals (not an option on site yet) and made them killer neutrals.

Major changes- Border regions have been moved.
More troops have been added to accommodate new game play.
Removed attack lines and have gone for normal game play territs.
Changes to neutrals to make it easier to go after Chard and Bromhead (winning condition) so players do not just stay and fight it out.
Impassible s added. (Need to change the spelling on the map).
Added dried river bed to add element of game play (this does not belong to any bonus region but opens the board up more).
2 new ways to cross the river to stop build ups and easy defence.
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Re: Rourke's Drift (V.3.1 New draft / First post)

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:45 am

koontz1973 wrote:Your aims/design style: To design a map that people like. Design style is old school. To many complicated maps coming out of the foundry.

It's "Too many" not "To many" Other than that, very true...:-)

Uniqueness: Nothing inherently unique, but it is a well known small scale battle that took place over a very limited area.

And the scene of one of the greatest war movies ever made! I would mention that in the intro, for those who don't immediately get it.

I think the term "killer neutrals" needs to be replaced with something else. Define the area and show it in the legend. Most of us know what a killer neutral is, but a map is supposed to give all relevant information even to a person who has never played before.
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Re: Rourke's Drift (V.3.1 New draft / First post)

Postby koontz1973 on Wed Jun 15, 2011 11:57 am

Dukasaur wrote:
koontz1973 wrote:Your aims/design style: To design a map that people like. Design style is old school. To many complicated maps coming out of the foundry.

It's "Too many" not "To many" Other than that, very true...:-)

Uniqueness: Nothing inherently unique, but it is a well known small scale battle that took place over a very limited area.

And the scene of one of the greatest war movies ever made! I would mention that in the intro, for those who don't immediately get it.

I think the term "killer neutrals" needs to be replaced with something else. Define the area and show it in the legend. Most of us know what a killer neutral is, but a map is supposed to give all relevant information even to a person who has never played before.


Zulu is probably one of the greatest films to come out of the UK ever. One I have watched multiple times over the year and looks stunning in HD.

The term killer neutral does need to be changed. I tried to re write the legend without the names but as I can see with your post, it does not work.
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Re: Rourke's Drift V.3.3 New draft second page

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Jun 18, 2011 4:43 am

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Things changed.
The brown elephant grass has been redone.
Added text explaining why these 11 soldiers were chosen.
Moved army circle for S1.
Changed font for instructions.
Added text to make sure it is clearer to understand winning condition.
Removed border around the edge of instructions (was making it harder to read).
Redid the impossibles and moved over to the left with the one way arrow.
Moved Hook army circle and name more into the courtyard to make it clearer.


Dukasaur wrote:It's "Too many" not "To many" Other than that, very true...:-)

The use of too or to is subjective. To use too, it applies that it is in the extreme. There are complicated maps coming out of the foundry but there are still some very nice classical game play ones coming to. ;) :D
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Re: Rourke's Drift V.3.3 New draft second page

Postby dagdam0r on Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:02 am

I believe it wats the battle of "Rorke's drift" and not "Rourke's drift", and it's not the battle with most victoria's crosses, it's the battle with most victoria's crosses for a single regiment (7) ;)
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Re: Rourke's Drift V.3.3 New draft second page

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:30 am

dagdam0r wrote:I believe it wats the battle of "Rorke's drift" and not "Rourke's drift", and it's not the battle with most victoria's crosses, it's the battle with most victoria's crosses for a single regiment (7) ;)

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Title fixed. :oops:
It is not the one that has the most for a single regiment but the most for a single unit.
There were actually 5 units awarded the crosses.
2nd Battalion, 24th Regiment of Foot got seven, now known as the Welsh regiment.
Army Medical Department received one (Reynolds).
Royal Engineers got one (Bromhead, acting commanding office)
Commissariat (Former name of the military police, Dalton)
Natal Native Contingent (Schiess)

But I take your point and have changed the wording a bit to stop confusion. I wanted it in as it is a remarkable feet but if anyone can come up with a better wording, I will put it in.
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Re: Rorke's Drift V.3.3 New draft second page

Postby Industrial Helix on Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:43 am

Your map needs a legend indicating where the 150 yard line is and where the kings are, ect. These symbols and colors need to translate to something.

But on the bright side, I'm really digging this idea. I've been occasionally mulling over how to make an effective Rorke's Drift map.
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Re: Rourke's Drift V.3.3 New draft second page

Postby Dukasaur on Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:23 pm

koontz1973 wrote:But I take your point and have changed the wording a bit to stop confusion. I wanted it in as it is a remarkable feet but if anyone can come up with a better wording, I will put it in.

The wording is fine the way it is in your latest version. Except, I would change the period to a comma. "...won the Victoria Cross, Britain's highest honour." Good enough, and anyone who is intrigued enough to want more information will go to wikipedia and get it.

koontz1973 wrote:
Dukasaur wrote:It's "Too many" not "To many" Other than that, very true...:-)

The use of too or to is subjective. To use too, it applies that it is in the extreme. There are complicated maps coming out of the foundry but there are still some very nice classical game play ones coming to. ;) :D

I'm sorry my friend, but this time you're wrong...:P

The difference between "to" and "too" is not subjective, and it has nothing to do with extreme vs. not extreme. The word "to" is a preposition, the word "too" is an adverb. They are not the same word and not interchangeable.
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Re: Rorke's Drift V.3.3 New draft second page

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Jun 20, 2011 12:33 am

Click image to enlarge.
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Things changed.
Added key to legend.
Changed wording and font as less space now.
Moved a few territory boundaries to make space for names.

Something to consider
Thinking of making M1 and D1 link up. Good idea or not. Will open game play up more.
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Re: Rorke's Drift V.3.4 New Legend

Postby Bruceswar on Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:02 am

your legend font is hard to read if you ask me.
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Re: Rorke's Drift V.3.4 New Legend

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:07 am

Bruceswar wrote:your legend font is hard to read if you ask me.

Will get it changed, new font tonight.
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Re: Rorke's Drift V.3.4 New Legend

Postby koontz1973 on Mon Jun 20, 2011 1:55 pm

Click image to enlarge.
image

New font in legend. I believe this one is easier to read but as I know what it says, I cannot be one hundred percent unbiased.
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