iancanton wrote:cairnswk wrote:for a map this size (114 terts) that is not a lot of bonuses with 2/3 territorie, considering 8 players may start, even though the majority of games may be 1v1.
the opposite is true. small maps (such as
madrid) need small bonuses, while large ones don't,
especially ones with over 100 regions. if u have lots of 2-station bonuses, then u must increase the value of most of the larger bonuses above their current level to boost their relative attractiveness, since u cannot decrease a 2-station bonus to less than +1.
Well, i have my opinion on that, and stick to it.
not reducing 2 station bonuses makes sense, so let's increase the larger bonuses.
What are your suggestions for those increases?
iancanton wrote:cairnswk wrote:I am not convinced that Q line is out or place and pointless and needs enhancing/removal because it was put there (V9) to balance that side of the map when ian wanted to place a similar small bonus down around SAO which i thought was overkill for that area.
i believe i said no such thing. i actually suggested adding more stations to the Z line.
You are correct, i am wrong (again - speaking muddled)
and i apologise, ian, for using that reference for that argument.
however, and i have reviwed the original conversations...i am unwilling to withdraw that small bonus because of my beleif that this map doens't have to play like classic, and i am still of the view that this map could be good with those small bonuses to start.
If you know me by now, i do not stick to the necessarily normal views that others may hold.
cairnswk wrote:it may not be fun for you...but it might be fun for others who relish the opportunity to gain a small bonus early in the game to assist them on their quest to conquer large continents and their opponents, and this map help in particular those who have relatively bad dice (which appears to be the case on this site quite often from what i read)
Similar can be said for the hat bonuses.
i suspect that most players will leave well alone the large continents in most games because u've ensured that trying to take and hold them is a losing strategy.
well, ian, i disagree with you again on this one.
i remember a lengthy game (50 rounds) on Rail Asia, where tnb and i pussy-footed around between red and white lines gathering bonuses for some time.
and then in the end two other players were attacked and they didn't like my strategy of trying to move the game on from "empire-building"...btw, i won.
what i am trying to say, is that there are all sorts of strategies that might be available to everyone playing in largers games and the outcome is no certain matter, even though some players like to play "conservatively" and stick to classic play.
The game is based on RISK, and if you don't take risks then you'll neven know what can and cannot be accomplished. so i suspect that classic game is not going to apply here, and nor should it since this is an entirely different map.
There are probably many ways we can balance the map.
cairnswk wrote:this map is going to come down to a lot of luck on the drop
is not this the case in most every game?
certainly not.
Hehe! the amount of comments that i've seen on the site that entertain in my direction with the dice does not favour your response.
cairnswk wrote: if I drop 2 stations in a 3 line station, all I need is to take one neutral for a +2 bonus.
If this is too easy then increase the neutral
u will need at least n4 for any neutral stations that combine a hat bonus with a short line.
OK, let's do that then....quite open to doing that if it makes all that difference.
koontz1973 wrote:Like the throne in Siege or Down town in Montreal. I love these types of maps as it really does happen in life and does not sanitise maps.
greenoaks wrote:cairnswk wrote:greenoaks wrote:i would like to see some small drops as a starting possibility. reading the log in fog to see where they are adds to a game, and the map's appeal.
greenoaks, what do you consider to be small drops? and what is the bit about the maps appeal - please explain.
i don't have a problem with someone dropping a +1 or +2. it takes the blandness out of games.
'do they have a drop, where could it be, better move in this direction to check, better fort this other way to cover myself'
knowing you could be at a slight disadvantage or advantage brings more to a map's appeal than everyone starting identical, every time.
some of the most popular maps are Realms 2/3 & Feudal War. games are interesting because not all starts are equal. overcoming that (or running with it) is satisfying.
greenoaks gives examples of maps where all players start with the same deployment. koontz mentions that the throne in
siege! and downtown in
montreal add interest; note the focus on a special part of each map, where power is wielded. we can take something from both concepts by using as focus cities the two eye-catching hubs of the map, brasilia and buenos aires, the capitals of the two south american regional superpowers, perhaps by reducing all of the neutrals on these cities to n1 each and increasing the bonuses to +12 and +10 respectively. something like this might force players to keep an eye on these cities in case of a big surprise, without handing out dropped bonuses on a plate.
ian.
Happy to do that.
