Version 11.6 FRANCE 2.1

[Lancelot du Lac]

update

[Industrial Helix]

Once again, you need some kind of texture, imo.

Andyou should put something on the big map IDF like, "See Inset"

[koontz1973]

Lancelot, sorry for the delay, been waiting on a size guideline from the boss, still not got one so you may need to change the size at some point. But here are my first general thoughts for you to look at and think about.

Industrial Helix has asked for some texture, this is a wonderful idea. You can go for a plain simple paper texture so the map looks like it came from an atlas or something more exotic. But this will be a must have for the map.
Right now, your map is large, and it does not need to be. You have a lot of wasted space and with some jiggling around of things, you should be able to get this down to 900/900 easily.
The Paris inset is out of scale. The army numbers for Paris and the suburbs are going to be to big for this. Make Paris a lot larger in the insert and give the 4 territs back to the map proper.
Regional claims - these icons that cover the whole area will need rethinking. Right now, that cover territ names and confuse borders. Try to come up with a way to make these a lot more subtle.
What are the foreign claims? Who are they?

That should keep you busy for a while.

This map is going to be great fun to play IMO and I look forward to sending you on your way soon.

Again, I need to ask who is Mishalexin this project? Is he just helping you or is he connected to the map in any way?
Can you please fill this out and post it in the first post for me. Thanks for the thread title by the way.

Code: Select all

[b]Map Name:[/b] France 2.0
[b]Mapmaker(s):[/b]
[b]Number of Territories:[/b]
[b]Special Features:[/b]
[b]What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made:[/b]

[Lancelot du Lac]

What about "texture" ??

Mishalex works with me on the map

[koontz1973]

Right now, your map is just a flat colour, whilst nice, it makes the map look like an ordinary map. Giving it a light texture would really make it come alive.

When you fill in the form for the first post, you need to put his name in as well as yours. This is because the image belongs to you and the site needs to know because of copyright issues.

[Lancelot du Lac]

Ok I just figured texture.

Thank you.

I'm on it early next week.

[arno30]

quelques remarques:
-pour gagner de la place, le titre en haut à gauche et utiliser l'atlantique pour mettre tous les foreign et regional claim ensemble + l'explication des troupes deploy et la condition de victoire. peut être mettre l'inset idf en dessous du titre. En relevant les catalans et les basques, vous devriez pouvoir gagner de la place au sud et rendre plus lisible l'ensemble, sans qu'on ne doive regarder partout pour tout comprendre.
-suburb riots: pourquoi riots ? est-ce toujours nécessaire ? the three suburbs equals 3 bonus = hold the 3 suburbs for a +3 bonus. ça sonne mieux. à part ça, c'est pas un peu trop peu ?
- on comprend pas bien pour la corse. +2 ou 2+2 ? si vous le mettez dans régional claim, ne le remettez pas dans la petite carte je dirais (un peu de place gagné). et une tête de maures serait pas mal à mon avis !
- foreign claim, dans la légende: can only be assaulted from paris.
- il y a un bug au nord dans la manche

c'est pas mal du tout, ça me plait !!

in english
few things:
- to gain space in the south, you could put the title and the idf inset in the top left corner and use the atlantic space to put all the legends (foreign +regional claims + suburb riots + troop deploy explanation + victory conditions). put the southern foreign claims a bit higher. i would think that makes it easier to understand the way the map works.
- suburb riots: why riots still ? the three suburbs equals 3 bonus = hold the 3 suburbs for a +3 bonus. that sounds better. is +3 enough here ?
- the corse bonus is +2 or 2+2 ? i'd say, if you put it in the regional claim, there's no need to put it in the mini france map as well. you should gain some little space as well. plus i'd say a "tête de maures" would be great in the territ background.
- foreign claim, in the légend: can only be assaulted from paris.
- there's a bug in the north part of the channel.

that's it for now, but that's already great !

[koontz1973]

Lancelot du Lac, any word on when the next update will be? I really want to get this moving along.

[Lancelot du Lac]

update tomorrow 14/06

[Lancelot du Lac]

it happens

[koontz1973]

When?

[Lancelot du Lac]

now, update done

[koontz1973]

Lancelot du Lac, nice update. Now lets see, now that we have a summer and things will slow down if we can get this one moving a tad faster than the snails pace it has been going.

This is all on the large image which needs to fit the 888s in. As you can see, Paris will not. As I said, you have room on the map to give the surrounding areas room on the map and have this inset only for Paris and the 3 suburbs.

Same for Belfort. A simple redraw of the territ lines will give this small region size for its name and army numbers.

A simple moving of this area and you can crop right up to the map itself and then you have no wasted space.

Same for here.

And here.

This area looks bad because of the pattern on it. It is confusing and not needed. You have it all over the region and not in the disputed territ only. Try a subtle shading effect like natty has on Eurasia. Same goes for the other one like this.


Please remember, geography has to come second to game play, but also size on this map needs to be condensed. If it can be made smaller. please do so. The simple crops and giving Paris the inset on its own will save you lots of space. Please look at other areas and see if it can be made smaller.

Looking forward to the next one.

koontz.

[Lancelot du Lac]

Thank you for your help koontz1973. I understand that I was moving like a snail, this time I went a little faster.

Here is a new update (first post). Your comments?

Lancelot

[isaiah40]

lancelot, can you please post your updates on both the first page and the current last page. Also please update the title with the most recent update, the day and month it was done and what page the current update is on. This will help everyone out. Thank you.

isaiah40

[koontz1973]

FRANCE 2.0 - V3 - [10 mai 2012] pg 1/4 should read FRANCE 2.0 - V5 - [23/6] pg 1/5. If I am not mistaken, this is something I have asked of you before.

As for the update, it is coming along great guns now. One last thing I would like to see is some texture on the map. This also has been asked before. Please put one on just to break up the continuous colour blocks. A light paper one would work nice.

[Mishalex]

I'm sorry Koontz, but i don't understand what you mean when you talk about "texture"! can you explain us with image please? thanks

[koontz1973]

I'm sorry Koontz, but i don't understand what you mean when you talk about "texture"! can you explain us with image please? thanks

OK then, here is a couple of my maps with and without the texture.
These first two are from the mag map in the main foundry. As you can see, the colour of Romania is this bright ghastly purple but after 3 layers of texture are added, you get this dark red that is not a solid colour. And this is what your map needs to be, not solid blocks of colour.


This second set is from a map that I have just abandoned. Even though the first shows the way I am aiming for when I take it up again, it has 4 layers of texture. The second one only has the first layer on. A simple noise addition and bump map effect.



Have a look at these by natty dread...
viewtopic.php?f=649&t=123772
He explains how to add them to your map.
If you do not find one there that you like, you can always look here
http://www.cgtextures.com/
Use the same technique as nattys.

It all depends on how you want the map to look at the end. Hope that helps.

[Dukasaur]

I really like what you're doing with this map!

However, I do have a major disagreement with the idea of Paris as a killer neutral.

More than any other major country, France is totally focused on the capital. In Italy, Ravenna and Milan and Venice have at various times been more important than Rome. In Russia, Petrograd and Kiev and even Smolensk were at various times more important than Moscow. In the U.S., the economic power of New York and Chicago eclipses the political power of Washington. In China, Shanghai and Canton sometimes don't even remember that Peking exists.

Paris stands alone among the world's capitals as being the unchallenged and unquestioned ruler of its domain. All road and rail and air networks are focused on Paris. The French economy is totally focused on Paris, French politics are totally focused on Paris, French culture and entertainment are totally focused on Paris. Lyon very briefly had more money during the late medieval period, but even then had to bow to Parisian kings. Vichy briefly held a sad and pathetic remnant of the French government. Marseilles is pretty big but has never dreamed of being equal to Paris.

I realize that gameplay comes first and we're can sacrifice geographical and historical realities to some degree. But making Paris a killer neutral isn't just a minor tweak. It's a completely counter-intuitive reversal of reality. Normally one associates killer neutrals with wild and unihabitable zones, the total opposite of what a capital is. To treat Paris like some Missile Launch zone or Algonquin Territory seems 100% wrong.

[Oneyed]

very nice map.

at the first I agree with Dukasaur about Paris. and also, if I good understand, Paris (1) is killer neutral, but also a victory condition. this is not possible.

it is hard to read names on Savoie for me. and this is big map, in small one it would be harder.

maybe you could add any symbol for Belfort - it will be easier to find it.

could have Foreign Clams names?

Oneyed

[koontz1973]

Dukasaur and Oneyed are right, Paris 1 cannot be a killer neutral and a part of the winning condition. Scrap the winning condition completely. Easier to have and anyone who has bonus near it will win the game before a player with a bonus on the outside can even get to it.

[Lancelot du Lac]

Thank you.

Regarding your advice on gameplay, I'll think with my friend mishalex.

I just made two updates. The difference between the two is the only map bonuses.

Lancelot

[koontz1973]

You do not need it for the mini map, but very nice for now. Please post the map on this page as well and update the title.

[Lancelot du Lac]

Last update. Work on texture :

VERSION 6
1. Map Name France 2.0
2. Version 6 [24 juin 2012]
3. Dimension : 915 * 927

Click image to enlarge.

[Mishalex]

OK, thanks Koontz...

I understand your point of view Dukasaur and Oneyed, but i like a map when there is a victory condition on it... So maybe we can drop down the neutral condition idea and just continu with the victory condition...

What do you think of it? I have to talk with Lancelot also...

Thanks for your advice guys