WWII:Poland [Quenched]

[miniwally]

Well i have some experience in that area, if you research a little maybe you will find what whas town whas target in german plans,

Well they msotly wanted the polish corridor i think then it conencted east prussia to them

[Qwert]

These is visualy how i see map of poland(well actualy these is how im start in create of map,begining is every time simple draft).
You all ready know that Germans have three initial direction to encircle Warshaw in fast way(blitzkrieg).
-Von Rundsted West Front
1.Blaskowitz to capture Lodz and to go for Warsaw,with help of Von rundsted who go south of Lodz
2.Wilhelm List target is Krakow and go north to Warsaw and part of units to close Romanian Bridgehead
3.Fedor von Bock to go south and attack Warsaw
4.Slovak state,actualy i dont research what these grande army done but when i look on statistic-18 dead-11 mising-46 wounded,its look to me that they have fight betwen self when he want to breakfest.
--------------------------------
When i look on map i have very interesting gameplay on mind.
German area and Soviet area will be open for players(no neutrals)also no borders betwen these areas. Poland will be neutral area.
Now i will add 3 or 4 entrance from Soviet area into Poland,also add 3 entrance from west German area and 2 entrance from Prussia.These give you very unique gameplay.
Objectives-German Objectives
Capture
1.Poznan
2.Lodz
3.Krakow
4.Warsaw
Soviet Objectives
Capture
1.Belostok
2.Brest
3.Lwow
4.Warsaw
-------------------
Ofcourse i dont do any big researsh only initial research. I hope that these can help to map get more autentical feel,because i will definitly work in these way,but these is in your hands now.

Click image to enlarge.

[sailorseal]

Great idea and great map!
1. Take that fog off
2. Move your name or a n00b might think thats a territory
3. Add that tanks can assualt through impassibles (I think they can)

[cairnswk]

Preliminary Review for Advancement to Main Foundry

This map thoroughly deserves to be advanced to the Main Foundry.
* Great graphics and appropriate use of icons
* well established gameplay from appropriate feedback i have observed and obviously more help to come from suggestions above.
* singularly this country Poland and subject of WWII invasion has not been done before and therefore has a degree of uniqueness
* feedback has been slow but then that is nothing new over the past few months
* committed and talented mapmaker
* a well deserved move IMHO.

[sailorseal]

So here is the break down:

Title/legend
Text is fine but could be bolder and maybe a little bigger in the case of the legend. Maybe mention that tanks can attack through impassibles (I assume they can if they can't mention it). Also change attack to assault. Move your name so it doesn't look like the name of that blank territory. Maybe extend the legend a little so you can spread the words out they are very cramped. Increase the size of WWiI.

Symbols
Pick a color for the arrows and stick with it. The soviet simple appears to have been pressed distort it. Move Semyon down a territory because the Nazi commanders do not touch and I think it should stay that way.

Game Play
The P.A.F. is so easy to reach with such a large bonus. Make it more difficult to reach/hold. It would be a major advantage to start on the soviet side or to start with the highest Nazi commander. I feel games would be short and there would not be much strategy, try to add maybe larger neutrals or added feature that makes it so players would not immediately go for the center P.A.F. The map looks fun but really needs some work.

[bryguy]

Click image to enlarge.

Wow, this is one great looking map!

Graphics:

I cant see anything wrong with the graphics, except that the borders look a little pixelated in spots, and the hole with smoke coming out of it doesn't really seem to fit. Great job with the graphics

Gameplay:

The only thing I can see with gameplay is that whoever starts on the left side gets an advantage, as all starting territories on the left side can attack 2 tanks and 2 planes, while those on the right side (and Fedor Von Bock) can only attack 2 tanks and 1 plane or 1 tank and 2 planes.

Great mape sam

[MrBenn]

Just a question, so please don't freak out on me here, but can you "get away with" the swastika? I think there is a law in Germany forbiding anything Nazi...

We're not in Germany so i doubt it matters

Actually, I think it does matter, because of the global reach of the site.... While I appreciate the historical accuracy of using the swastika, and while I personally don't object to its use in this context, I still think it would be appropriate to use an alternative symbol if possible. I not sure if there is any official CC policy on this [I'll make some enquiries], but the policy of sites such as eBay indicates that a change may be required...

Wikipedia wrote:
Because of its use by Hitler and the Nazis and, in modern times, by neo-Nazis and other hate groups, the swastika is largely associated with Nazism and white supremacy in most of the Western countries. As a result, all of its use, or its use as a Nazi or hate symbol is prohibited in some jurisdictions. Because of the stigma attached to the symbol, many buildings that have contained the symbol as decoration have had the symbol removed. Westerners whose family originates from India, including religions such as Jain, Hindu and other Indian religions, still use the swastika as a religious symbol, with no connection to Nazism, although not without being accused of cultural insensitivity.

[porkenbeans]

Accurate history books are more important than the changing peccadilloes, and political correctness that come and go. The truth of history must be preserved, this popular attempt to sanitize it, will only doom our children to repeat the mistakes of the past.

Showing a swastika when referring to Nazi-Germany, is NOT, in anyway, an endorsement of the atrocities that occurred in WWII. It is the flag of Germany from 1938. This is a map from that time. This is a map of what happened to Poland in 1940. Germany started to gobble from the east, while USSR, the west. It is just HISTORY, ...Tell the truth.

Besides, it helps to remind folks of just what the USA did to that flag.
We tore it down, stomped it with our big boot, and then pissed on it for good measure.
The countries of the world need to be reminded of this more, not less often.

[miniwally]

if you can't get around issues from using a swastika use german flag

[porkenbeans]

if you can't get around issues from using a swastika use german flag

It was the German flag.

[miniwally]

i mean the current german flag

[porkenbeans]

This is a map of 1940. Why on Earth would we want to saddle today's Germany with that designation. But on the other hand, They must not be allowed to pretend that it did not happen, or erase from history, what they did. We owe more than that, to the victims, and fallen soldiers of that bloody time.
The Germany of today is a tad embarrassed of what they did, and I can understand why they would want to sweep it in under the carpet. And so it is very understandable why in Germany, it is against he law to display that flag. This is not an attempt to respect the countless souls that found their mortality in the Gas-Chambers.

It is an attempt to make us all forget.

We are not Germany. We are not bound by their self-serving laws. If the powers that be at CC really want to show proper respect, I would lobby for the side that won. Not the side that wishes to make us forget.

I would also lobby for a tag to be included on this map, that somehow explains the intended respect that CC promotes in this map.

[samuelc812]

So here is the break down:

Title/legend
Text is fine but could be bolder and maybe a little bigger in the case of the legend. Maybe mention that tanks can attack through impassibles (I assume they can if they can't mention it). Also change attack to assault. Move your name so it doesn't look like the name of that blank territory. Maybe extend the legend a little so you can spread the words out they are very cramped. Increase the size of WWiI.

Barbed wire can only be passed in the direction of the One-Way arrow, if it does not show a tank can do this then it can't. My name does not even look like a territory name, i believe it is clear that it is the author's name and it is the only title in blue all the Territory Titles are black.

Symbols
Pick a color for the arrows and stick with it. The soviet simple appears to have been pressed distort it. Move Semyon down a territory because the Nazi commanders do not touch and I think it should stay that way.

No Commanders can attack each other because of the barbed wire, so Semyon can stay where it is, Commanders can only attack in the direction of the arrows. As for the arrow's colour they are fine.

Game Play
The P.A.F. is so easy to reach with such a large bonus. Make it more difficult to reach/hold. It would be a major advantage to start on the soviet side or to start with the highest Nazi commander. I feel games would be short and there would not be much strategy, try to add maybe larger neutrals or added feature that makes it so players would not immediately go for the center P.A.F. The map looks fun but really needs some work.

This has already been discussed, the P.A.F needs to be the most appealing target on the map. If it is more difficult to reach/hold than nobody will want to venture in to the centre which will make the game a stalemate. There are no advantages in terms of reaching the P.A.F, each commander can reach the P.A.F within 2 moves if they so desire, there is no advantage to any particular commander in that respect.

Thankyou for commenting

[the.killing.44]

I'd use one of those. Or look at qwert's Western front, what he does to the East.
I'll get a real good comment in tomorrow.

.44

[miniwally]

i agree with .44

[thenobodies80]

Great map, looks a good future addition to CC foundry.

TITLE,FONTS, SYMBOLS & COLORS

The title seems good and appropiate, remember some games i've played on WWII.
Fonts are good, simple and clear.
About symbols:

Germany: you could use the symbol .44 suggested you here
Russia: you used the correct symbol, but this create a strange effect. You could try to remove only the little star on it, so you can center the symbol in the circle.I don't think there's a problem to understand that is the russian army.
Airplanes: I don't like them very much, but it's only for a personal choice.
Colors are good
Author's name: probably you can choice a better position. But in my opinion is clear that this name don't indicate a territory.

LEGEND

the legend is correct developed but you lost some dates in this update:

i see this version: http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s237 ... landV1.jpg, you added a good description of territories names.
What means NG02?, where can i find the answer now?
I don't like the smoking hole on the right, probably could be better.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For me this map is ready for main foundry.

[Qwert]

I must say that Symbol what Map maker use is not glorify a nazi germany, these present Invasion of Poland in year 1939, so i dont understand why you want to censured that? I see in many maps in google,and then in many films,ofcourse in PC games to(call of duty)( who show history) that use of German flag is not forbiden to use, so i dont understand why you not alove that? How will some war move look if you not use German Flags(expecialy if you have some scene of German HQ). These will be quite strange to censored.
Im also whas use Flag in mine maps and also use Symbol of Wermacht.

[MrBenn]

The argument for/against the use of the swastika should probably take place in another thread... For now, I completely understand and sympathise with the historical reasons for using it - I just happen to think that it would be more sensitive to use something different. Having said that, I am awaiting confirmation of site policy in relation to it, so until that happens, the discussion is a moot point.

I would much rather discussion was focused on the map, rather than the merits (or otherwise) of the swastika.

[porkenbeans]

I like everything about this map. From its layout, to its graphics, to its historical significance.
I only have one suggestion to make it better. The outside border is great, but it needs to be darkened so as to contrast it more from the map. If you notice it blends in with Russia to much, and looses the overall border effect. I would make it a dark "blood" shade of red. You can also lighten the interior a tad to help achieve the contrast that I am talking about.

Super nice map. I am looking forward to playing on it.

[the.killing.44]

Hey sam, great job on this. I'm just going to spew comments out :

1. I agree with pork on the fact you should make the outline a dark red, but still keep that foggy-ness over it. It looks very nice. And keep the arrows the way they are. The gradient is a good feel as well.
2. I like the bullet-ripped hole, but I think it should look more like a bullet hole and less like someone punched something into it.
   

   show: Example Image

3. I would experiment with using a light-gray or white text over the German black background. I know it might disrupt the uniformity of it all but it would probably read better lighter.
   Other than that I have no quarrel with the graphics right now … nicely done.
   Gameplay I don't see glaring flaw … yet
   [/list]

Confucius say: Draft stamp come soon.

.44

[MrBenn]

Further to the swastika debate, I have had confirmation that the symbol should not be used on any CC maps. This represents official CC policy, and is not open to negotiation. Please use the German cross instead.

[samuelc812]

Further to the swastika debate, I have had confirmation that the symbol should not be used on any CC maps. This represents official CC policy, and is not open to negotiation. Please use the German cross instead.

Not a problem MrBenn

[MrBenn]

Sam - As soon as you've provided an update, I expect the map will be ready to move into the foundry proper

[samuelc812]

Well here's an update

Changes:

• Changed Swastika to German Cross
• Made Soviet Union a brighter but almost orangy red
• Each Commander now only has access to 1 Tank and 1 Airplane
• Improved Bullethole in header

To-Do:

• Fix up border
• Address any gameplay concerns

Version 5

Click image to enlarge.

[MrBenn]

Nice job



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