[GL] Game Log 2.0

[chipv]

Game Log XML awaited eagerly...
Specifically referring to the XML:

Agree with:

All attacks displayed (successful AND unsuccessful esp. with armies lost)
Number of armies at turn start/end

Disagree:

Dice rolls - unsuccessful attack display is sufficient and storing this huge amount
of info at the expense of old logs is not a fair swap. Statistical applications objection noted.

Is there a thread appropriate to post the exact XML I expect from the Game log XML?

[chipv]

EDIT: Added defender tag (based on yeti_c's suggestion)

For the Game Logs XML here is a proposed outline with example data:
(assuming you need to specify game # in the URL for the XML, it is omitted from the data)

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<game>
<label></label>
<status>Active</status>
<joinability>Tournament Game: The Long Walk - Round Twelve</joinability>
<type>Standard</type>
<order>Sequential</order>
<bonus>Flat Rate</bonus>
<fortifications>Unlimited</fortifications>
<fog>No</fog>
<maptype>Africa</maptype>
<timeleft>12hrs 16min 20sec</timeleft>
<round>3</round>
<players>
<starting>8</starting>
<surviving>4</surviving>
<teams>4</teams>
<player>
<name>chipv</name>
<rank>New Recruit</rank>
<team>3</team>
<cards>4</cards>
<armies>20</armies>
<status>waiting/playing/eliminated</status>
<territories>4</territories>
</player>
...
<player>
</player>
</players>
<log> (ordered)
<event>
<type>deploy</type>
<from>NA</from>
<to>Irkutsk</to>
<armies>3</armies>
<defender>NA</defender>
</event>
<event>
<type>attack</type>
<from>Irkutsk</from>
<to>Yakutsk</to>
<armies>-3</armies>
<defender>-2</defender>
</event>
<event>
<type>attack</type>
<from>Siberia</from>
<to>Yakutsk</to>
<armies>8</armies>
<defender>-1</defender>
</event>
<event>
<type>fortification</type>
<from>Yakutsk</from>
<to>Kamchatka</to>
<armies>3</armies>
<defender>NA</defender>
</event>
/log>
</game>

This event log shows an assault on Yakutsk with an unsuccessful attack and a successful attack.
I hope this is the best thread to start this off, although I guess its outline is almost done anyway...

[yeti_c]

Is there a thread appropriate to post the exact XML I expect from the Game log XML?

This one.

C.

[yeti_c]

Looks good - however...

Your <armies> tag is somewhat flawed...

As you need to know both sides of the argument - i.e. how many were lost on both sides.

C.

[chipv]

Add a tag!

<defender>-3</defender>

[chipv]

Amended xml format with yeti_c's suggestion:

For the Game Logs XML here is a proposed outline with example data:
(assuming you need to specify game # in the URL for the XML, it is omitted from the data)

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<game>
<label></label>
<status>Active</status>
<joinability>Tournament Game: The Long Walk - Round Twelve</joinability>
<type>Standard</type>
<order>Sequential</order>
<bonus>Flat Rate</bonus>
<fortifications>Unlimited</fortifications>
<fog>No</fog>
<maptype>Africa</maptype>
<timeleft>12hrs 16min 20sec</timeleft>
<round>3</round>
<players>
<starting>8</starting>
<surviving>4</surviving>
<teams>4</teams>
<player>
<name>chipv</name>
<rank>New Recruit</rank>
<team>3</team>
<cards>4</cards>
<armies>20</armies>
<status>waiting/playing/eliminated</status>
<territories>4</territories>
</player>
...
<player>
</player>
</players>
<log> (ordered)
<event>
<type>deploy</type>
<from>NA</from>
<to>Irkutsk</to>
<armies>3</armies>
<defender>NA</defender>
</event>
<event>
<type>attack</type>
<from>Irkutsk</from>
<to>Yakutsk</to>
<armies>-3</armies>
<defender>-2</defender>
</event>
<event>
<type>attack</type>
<from>Siberia</from>
<to>Yakutsk</to>
<armies>8</armies>
<defender>-1</defender>
</event>
<event>
<type>fortification</type>
<from>Yakutsk</from>
<to>Kamchatka</to>
<armies>3</armies>
<defender>NA</defender>
</event>
</log>
</game>

This event log shows an assault on Yakutsk with an unsuccessful attack and a successful attack.

[yeti_c]

Getting there...

Problem is - you can't tell who won the attacks with this format...

You can see that attacker lost 3 and defender lost 2...

However we don't know how many were there to start with?

Perhaps a <Success> tag?

Also - you need to know how many armies were advanced into the space.

The last - and probably most valid point...

This is all well and good - for "auto attacks" - but the normal attack button will spawn a multitude of these logs - is the server meant to condense these into one?

What happens if you attack one territory - kill a few - then attack a different one kill a few - then attack the first territory again?

C.

[chipv]

Problem is - you can't tell who won the attacks with this format...

You can see that attacker lost 3 and defender lost 2...

However we don't know how many were there to start with?

Perhaps a <Success> tag?

Also - you need to know how many armies were advanced into the space.

The last - and probably most valid point...

This is all well and good - for "auto attacks" - but the normal attack button will spawn a multitude of these logs - is the server meant to condense these into one?

What happens if you attack one territory - kill a few - then attack a different one kill a few - then attack the first territory again?

Well, yes you can tell who won the attack, but I haven't clearly explained the scope of the output.
I think it's too much to store every single dice roll, therefore
no point in recording every "sub-attack" either.

So if you restrict to just conquer and failed to conquer
then all you need to do is look at the sign of the armies.

So <armies>8</armies><defender>-1</defender>
means a successful attack moving 8 armies into the space occupied by the 1 defender.

So that means

<armies>-2</armies>
means a cumulative failed attack attempt losing 2 armies.
So the attacker might have made several attempts but ultimately
failed to remove all defenders.

I think that addresses all of your points.

[yeti_c]

Ah I see... yes that does work...

So if you have
<armies>0</armies>
<defender>-2</defender>

Then they haven't conquered - but have just removed 2 armies.

The only problem here is that you can't distinguish bombardment with these rules...

As the above answer could mean annihilation - or just reduction.

C.

[lancehoch]

Maybe instead, you could have the log change when the drop-down menus change. For example, someone is attacking Alaska from Kamchatka and rolls until the attacker loses 5 and the defender loses 7. Then they decide to attack Alaska from Alberta. They change the "from" drop-down to Alberta, and when that changes, if there were changes in army numbers, the changes are posted.

[yeti_c]

Maybe instead, you could have the log change when the drop-down menus change. For example, someone is attacking Alaska from Kamchatka and rolls until the attacker loses 5 and the defender loses 7. Then they decide to attack Alaska from Alberta. They change the "from" drop-down to Alberta, and when that changes, if there were changes in army numbers, the changes are posted.

That could be a viable alternative...

C.

[chipv]

Ah I see... yes that does work...

So if you have
<armies>0</armies>
<defender>-2</defender>

Then they haven't conquered - but have just removed 2 armies.

The only problem here is that you can't distinguish bombardment with these rules...

As the above answer could mean annihilation - or just reduction.

C.

Could have some indicator for bombardment. I'm not exactly sure what this is -
description says conversion of defender's armies to neutral.

So <defender>0</defender> with a positive armies number - could that indicate bombardment?
(Cannot normally move in unless at least one defender has been lost)

I cannot find a good description for this aside from the one-liner on the instructions pages. (Unless I've missed it totally)

[The Neon Peon]

I would really love to see this, and it would solve many of the obstacles that are in the game log: make the game log click-able so that when you click on an action in it, the map will show what it looked like at the point in the game.

This would help both players in the game to better understand what happened (seeing as you can click on the previous action for the before and after kind of thing) and help players viewing the game to look at how it progressed if they only start looking at the end.

[WOTE]

it would be nice to be able to replay the games. I know the code would be not to hard to write for one map but 30maps is a lot, how abo9ut just the classics and popular maps ?

[lancehoch]

Merged

[WOTE]

I would really love to see this, and it would solve many of the obstacles that are in the game log: make the game log click-able so that when you click on an action in it, the map will show what it looked like at the point in the game.

This would help both players in the game to better understand what happened (seeing as you can click on the previous action for the before and after kind of thing) and help players viewing the game to look at how it progressed if they only start looking at the end.

Just like Chess Games...
1. e4 e6
2. d4 d5
3. Nc3 dxe4
4. Nxe4 Nf6
5. Bg5 Be7
6. Bxf6 Bxf6
7. Nf3 O-O
8. Qd2 Nc6
9. O-O-O Be7
10. Bd3 f5
11. Nfg5 fxe4
12. Bxe4 Bxg5
13. f4 Bxf4

[flyingwalrus69]

Can we have a more detailed game log showing all of an opponents actions from previous turns? It would be really useful to know if an opponent tried to attack you on a previous turn, for obvious reasons. Sometimes it is not very obvious if you have been attacked. I would even like to see all the dice rolls from their turns as well. You have access to all of this information in "real" Risk, so why not in CC?

[cicero]

hi flyingwalrus69

Thanks for posting your suggestion.

This has actually already been suggested. Take a look at the Game Log 2.0 thread and join in the discussion there.

Cicero

[ztodd]

Example log entry for unsuccessful/stopped attack: Kamchatka attacks Alaska: 6G -> 4R Result: 3G -> 2R.
Example log entry for successful attack (takeover): Kamchatka attacks Alaska: 6G -> 4R Result: 1G -> 3G.

G and R are the color codes for green and red.

That's what I'd want to see. Anyone agree?

I think the server should keep track of all changes from beginning of attack phase to end of attack phase and spit out just the final results in the format above. Something similar can be put in the xml file. Too complicated a programming change? Send me the code or give me access - I'll do it.

This has been in the works for at least a year, right? What's the hold up? Are you all waiting on the players to agree on something?

Just provide the XML and leave it to the greasemonkeys to make the game replayer.

[blakebowling]

I think the server should keep track of all changes from beginning of attack phase to end of attack phase and spit out just the final results in the format above. Something similar can be put in the xml file. Too complicated a programming change? Send me the code or give me access - I'll do it.

This has been in the works for at least a year, right? What's the hold up? Are you all waiting on the players to agree on something?

Just provide the XML and leave it to the greasemonkeys to make the game replayer.

First, XML is how the territories and bonuses are coded, not the game engine.
Second, this is being worked on, they would rather do one large update (with all new Game Log features) rather than many small updates.
Third, I like the idea of a game replayer, I think that this would require two sets of logs though, simple logs that are loaded regularly, and extended logs that are loaded by the replayer.

[cspare]

I was thinking about something like this: (based on Chipv's example)

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<gamelog>
<gameinfo>
   <label></label>
   <status>Active</status>
   <joinability>Tournament Game: The Long Walk - Round Twelve</joinability>
   <type>Standard</type>
   <order>Sequential</order>
   <bonus>Flat Rate</bonus>
   <fortifications>Unlimited</fortifications>
   <fog>No</fog>
   <maptype>Africa</maptype>
   <timeleft>12hrs 16min 20sec</timeleft>
   <round>3</round>
   <players>
      <player id="78109" team="1" status="eliminated">cSpare1</player>
      <player id="78110" team="1" status="playing">cSpare2</player>
      <player id="78111" team="2" status="waiting">chipv1</player>
      <player id="78112" team="2" status="eliminated">chipv2</player>
   </players>
</gameinfo>
<log>
   (...)
   <round number="2" date="2008-10-17 17:12:11">
      (...)
      <turn player="78109" date="2008-10-21 11:44:02">
         <DeployEvent date="2008-10-21 11:45:14" territory="Irkutsk" troops="3"/>
         <AssaultEvent targetplayer="78112" date="2008-10-21 11:45:15" from="Siberia" to="Yakutsk" attackers="3" defenders="3" win="2" loss="3" advance="0"/>
         <AssaultEvent targetplayer="78112" date="2008-10-21 11:45:54" from="Irkutsk" to="Yakutsk" attackers="23" defenders="1" win="1" loss="1" advance="21"/>
         <EliminateEvent targetplayer="78112" date="2008-10-21 11:45:54" spoilsAmount="2"/>
         <FortifyEvent date="2008-10-21 11:46:02" from="Yakutsk" to="Kamchatka" troops="3"/>
         <SpoilsEvent date="2008-10-21 11:46:02" amount="1"/>         
      </turn>
   </round>
   <round number="3" date="2008-10-21 11:46:02">
      <turn player="78111" date="2008-10-21 11:46:02">
         <CashGroupEvent troops="10">
            <Group color="Green">Algeria</Group>
            <Group color="Red">East Australia</Group>
            <Group color="Blue">Norwegian Claim</Group>      
         </CashGroupEvent>
         <BonusEvent troops="2" territory="Algeria"/>      
      </turn>
   </round>
</log>
</gamelog>


What do you guys think?

[yeti_c]

Just provide the XML and leave it to the greasemonkeys to make the game replayer.

First, XML is how the territories and bonuses are coded, not the game engine.

Actually in this instance - Lack said that he would be willing to provide the log in XML - so that script writers can parse the log easier.

I was thinking about something like this: (based on Chipv's example)

Code: Select all

<?xml version="1.0"?>
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<gamelog>
<gameinfo>
   <label></label>
   <status>Active</status>
   <joinability>Tournament Game: The Long Walk - Round Twelve</joinability>
   <type>Standard</type>
   <order>Sequential</order>
   <bonus>Flat Rate</bonus>
   <fortifications>Unlimited</fortifications>
   <fog>No</fog>
   <maptype>Africa</maptype>
   <timeleft>12hrs 16min 20sec</timeleft>
   <round>3</round>
   <players>
      <player id="78109" team="1" status="eliminated">cSpare1</player>
      <player id="78110" team="1" status="playing">cSpare2</player>
      <player id="78111" team="2" status="waiting">chipv1</player>
      <player id="78112" team="2" status="eliminated">chipv2</player>
   </players>
</gameinfo>
<log>
(...)
   <round number="2" date="2008-10-17 17:12:11">
      <turn player="78109" date="2008-10-21 11:44:02">
         <DeployEvent date="2008-10-21 11:45:14" territory="Irkutsk" troops="3"/>
         <AssaultEvent targetplayer="78112" date="2008-10-21 11:45:15" from="Siberia" to="Yakutsk" attackers="3" defenders="3" win="2" loss="3" advance="0"/>
         <AssaultEvent targetplayer="78112" date="2008-10-21 11:45:54" from="Irkutsk" to="Yakutsk" attackers="23" defenders="1" win="1" loss="1" advance="21"/>
         <EliminateEvent targetplayer="78112" date="2008-10-21 11:45:54" spoilsAmount="2"/>
         <FortifyEvent date="2008-10-21 11:46:02" from="Yakutsk" to="Kamchatka" troops="3"/>
         <SpoilsEvent date="2008-10-21 11:46:02" amount="1"/>         
      </turn>
   </round>
   <round number="3" date="2008-10-21 11:46:02">
      <turn player="78111" date="2008-10-21 11:46:02">
         <CashGroupEvent troops="10">
            <Group color="Green">Algeria</Group>
            <Group color="Red">East Australia</Group>
            <Group color="Blue">Norwegian Claim</Group>      
         </CashGroupEvent>
         <BonusEvent troops="2" territory="Algeria"/>      
      </turn>
   </round>
</log>
</gamelog>


What do you guys think?

I like it - Could even extend to have a chat log in the system?

Code: Select all

<chatlog>
  <round number="1">
    <chat datetime="200810212200">Good luck everyone</chat>
  </round>
</chatlog>


C.

[cspare]

I like it - Could even extend to have a chat log in the system?

Code: Select all

<chatlog>
  <round number="1">
    <chat datetime="200810212200">Good luck everyone</chat>
  </round>
</chatlog>


C.

That's a good idea, would be nice to include aswell yea.
Though I myself wouldn't really need the data for ConqerStats, so I'd prefer the chatlog to be in a seperate XML file. Now that I think of it I think the GameInfo element should be in a separate file also, as that information can be used for a much more purposes.

[yeti_c]

That's a good idea, would be nice to include aswell yea.
Though I myself wouldn't really need the data for ConqerStats, so I'd prefer the chatlog to be in a seperate XML file. Now that I think of it I think the GameInfo element should be in a separate file also, as that information can be used for a much more purposes.

Yeah - that could work... 3 separate XML files that would be easily callable/parsable.

(I don't need the chat either - but it'd be good to upgrade everything at the same time!)

Although with times stamps that are easily parsable - I could use that info for useful stuff.

C.

[cspare]

Code: Select all

   <round number="2" date="2008-10-17 17:12:11">
      (...)
      <turn player="78109" date="2008-10-21 11:44:02">
         <DeployEvent date="2008-10-21 11:45:14" territory="Irkutsk" troops="3"/>
      </turn>
   </round>



Hmm, I was thinking a bit more, I figure the <turn> element won't work for freestyle games. (Because multiple turns can occur at the same time). I guess something like a TurnStartEvent and TurnEndEvent element would be needed to replace the turn element, also a playerid would be a required attribute for all *event elements.