Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and maps

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Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and maps

Postby Queen_Herpes on Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:23 pm

*Attempting to solve the problem of 372895 user accounts but only 19183 active members. (November, 2009) 5.144%
*Still attempting to solve the problem of 432102 user accounts but only 19679 active members. (June, 2010) 4.554%
*Still trying to solve the problem of 442051 users but only 19350 actives. (August, 2010) 4.377%
*Still striving to solve the problem of 505438 accounts, but only 21664 actives. (February, 2011) 4.286%

Abstract
In their first games, New Players (Noobs, Newbies, New Recruits) won't understand the complexities of the exceptional and varied maps and game options we enjoy on Conquer Club. The New Player is farmed, ignored by the system, and left to fend for himself/herself. The likelihood that a new player will continue actively visiting ConquerClub under the current structure is not theoretically, but actually low. The purpose of this suggestion is to positively affect the retention rate by means of increasing user enjoyment. Some ancillary benefits are a by-product of this suggestion.

Introduction
The site does not contain enough information about Maps, Options, Gameplay and Strategy as Data on the site. While some comments and discussions contain information about strategy and the maps, there is a vacuum of hard data available to browsers or new players.

This recommendation offers a reasonably achievable goal: participate in X games, unlock this cool thing; participate in X more games, unlock these other cool things; etc. A goal of this suggestion is to allow new Recruits to experience this great game with basic, beginner, understandable, game options that don’t give an unfair advantage to seasoned players. New recruits are often cherry-picked by veterans--an experience that cannot be enjoyable for the new recruit.

Look at where this site is going! We are getting more and more game options. We are getting more and more maps. The foundry is buzzing with activity and commentary. There is an ever-increasing list of add-ons like “clickable maps” and “maprank.” All of these things are great! For players who have been here for a long time, these changes have come about over time, slowly. Long-time players have had the opportunity to learn each aspect of ConquerClub as they have come out. Rarely, if ever, has the site dumped a bunch of new game options and maps on the players all-at-once. Yet, we assume that new players will be able to “get it” and understand everything whence the entirety of the site is dumped upon them when they join! Where do you think this site will be in two years? At the current pace, I’m thinking 250 maps, and 20 game options (currently there are what, 10 Options?) I think 250 maps with 20 game options will be great for me and I look forward to it. I think it will be absolutely terrible for new players who join on November 7, 2011 if there isn’t a comprehensive training program (like mine…or another) to help them navigate the site and gameplay.

The current “training” provides more opportunities for players to be upset and to leave the site. The Society of Cooks is a great idea, but dependent on meeting the right people at the right time and/or dependent upon good posts and responses in the Society of Cooks Forum and classrooms. I certainly have played in games with options and on maps where I posted something like this in the game chat: “How did you just get all those armies?” Man, was that frustrating to “not know!” Imagine how frustrating that can be, and how quickly a user would exit the site. I think ConquerClub has a problem with enjoyment and retention, and that is what this suggestion speaks to!

Concise description:
  • Post a link on the homepage to “MAPROOM”
  • Limit New Players to 25 “Level 0” Maps
  • Limit New Players to escalating or no spoils, chained, no fog, no manual (Sorry, Manual has fog for now and complicates things), no assassin.
  • Limit New Players to everyman for himself games and terminator
  • Unlock remaining maps after 16 completed games
  • Unlock remaining game options after 16 completed games
  • Provide a PM after completing 4, 8, 12, and 16 games which includes links to helpful information about what was unlocked
  • Players still receive an email after their first rating, first victory, first game, etc.
  • A New Recruit can circumvent this process by paying for Premium. Once Premium, all maps are unlocked, all options are unlocked. (PMs will still be sent.)
Specifics:

Map Categories
  • Potential Names for each level: Level 0 - Beginner, Level 1 - Novice, Level - 2 Intermediate, Level 3 - Competitive, Level 4 - Advanced, Level 5 - Professional, Level 6 - Experimental
  • Unlock Level 0: Classic Shapes, Classic Art, Archipelago, Canada, Caribbean Islands, CCU, Circus Maximus, Conquer 4, Doodle Earth, France, Haiti, High Seas, Hong Kong, Iceland, Indochina, Ireland, Luxembourg, Madagascar, Middle East, Mongol Empire, Netherlands, Oceania, Portugal, Puget Sound, WWII Iwo Jima. (25)
  • Unlock Level 1: Alexander’s Empire, Ancient Greece, Arctic, Australia, Brazil 2, British Isles 2, Cairns Metro, Discworld, Draknor - Level 1, Egypt: Lower, Egypt: Upper, Extreme Global Warming, Iberia, Land and Sea, Midgard, Midkemdil, Montreal, South America, U.S. Senate, USA, USA West, WWII Eastern Front. (22)
  • Unlock Level 2: 8 Thoughts, Africa, Asia, BeNeLux, Chinese Checkers, Dust Bowl, Egypt: Nubia, Egypt: Valley of the Kings, Europe, France 1789, Gilgamesh, Great Lakes, Greenland, Philippines, San Marino, Soviet Union, Sydney Metro, Tamriel, Triple Alliance, USA New England, USA Rockies, USA Southeast, USA Southwest, WWI Ottoman Empire, WWII Australia. (25)
  • Unlock Level 3: American Civil War, Battle of Actium, Berlin 1961, Cairns Coral Coast, Castle Lands, Charleston, Crossword, Duck and Cover, Europa, Greater China, Halloween Hollows, Imperium Romanum, Indian Empire, Italy, King of the Mountains, Malta, North America, San Francisco, Scotland, Space, USA Great Lakes, USApocalypse, Wales, World 2.1, WWI Western Front. (25)
  • Unlock Level 4: Arms Race!, Conquer Man, D-Day: Omaha Beach, Eastern Hemisphere, Europe 1914, Feudal War, Holy Roman Empire, New World, NYC, Oasis, Pearl Harbor, Poker Club, Route 66, Texan Wars, The Citadel, Treasures of Galapagos, WWII Europe. (17)
  • Unlock Level 5: Age of Merchants, Age of Realms 1, Age of Realms 2, Age of Realms 3, Bamboo Jack, Battle for Iraq!, City Mogul, Forbidden City, Madness, Operation Drug War, Poison Rome, Prohibition Chicago, Rail Australia, Rail Europe, Rail USA, Siege!, Solar System, Supermax: Prison Riot!, Waterloo, WWII Ardennes, WWII Gazala. (21)
  • Unlock Level 6:
    -The Random Map (1 map, and it is not really a map per se as much as it is an option to play from one of all the maps, ergo a player would need to have unlocked all the maps via the preceding Unlock Levels in order to use the Random Map function in its current iteration.)
    -All Beta Maps (Currently (November 5, 2009) there are 6 Beta Maps available to play) (Beta maps would be ascribed a particular level once they come out of Beta and have achieved their “final forge, quench.”)

Learning the Game and Learning about the Site


  • Seeing as a non-Premium can only play in (4) four games at a time, having only 25 maps to choose from for the first 10 games is really not a limitation nor would it be a detraction from the site. Once a non-Premium completes 10 games, he/she has only played on a maximum of 10 of the maps. Most non-Premium New Recruits stick to the same maps anyways. A review of several players’ first 10 games shows that they played predominantly on the Classic Maps and the 23 other less-complicated maps listed in Level 0. Players who have been farmed, received assistance from the Society of Chefs, received assistance from a friend who introduced them to the site, or by apparent random selection have chosen 1 or 2 maps from outside of Level 0 for their first 10 games.
  • My suggestion doesn’t help new players to find a benevolent player-mentor nor does it help the new player to find other players who are trying to learn. It does, however, create a pseudo-training regimen that is unbiased and serves to slowly and methodically introduce the new player to this great website on which we play. And when I say “slowly,” it really isn’t that slow. You’ll understand by reading further that players really cannot play on every single current map (141 maps as of November 5, 2009) before they’ve played in 16 total games. It just isn’t possible to play on more than one map at a time. My recommendation herein offers an introduction to groups of maps at a time and an introduction to game options in a piecemeal, manageable manner. After participating in 16 games, slightly more than 10% of the existing maps, the player will have unlocked all the options and all the maps. Their training will be, so-to-speak, complete.
  • While my recommendation doesn’t directly offer one-on-one or group assistance, each automatically issued PM sent throughout the process to the player will offer links to the Society of Cooks and other helpful, compassionate links within the website that will lead (directly or indirectly) to players who are willing to help. A key word just mentioned is “automatic.” The player will receive these PMs just as we all received PMs when we first joined. The administrators on this site won’t be spending additional time with player questions, in fact, they will likely spend less time. With additional codexes on the site, players looking for help can read about it (in the event that there isn’t a player or someone in the Society of Cooks available to help them.)

This will improve the following aspects of the site:

  • By listing the maps in a “Map Room” on the homepage, the best part of ConquerClub will become visible to new visitors and browsers of the site. I believe this will attract more players to join the site. The remainder of my suggestion will help to get them to continue playing once they have joined. “Getting Browsers to investigate the site”
  • First, this suggestion in its entirety will make the site more attractive to browsers and new visitors to the site. If there is a visible training program, it might not seem too difficult to join. “Attracting New Members”
  • Second, once the visitor has created a username and password, this suggestion will make the site games and options easier to navigate.
  • Third, once the player has started playing games, this suggestion will positively affect the likelihood that the player will continue to come back to the site for more games. “Player Retention”
  • Fourth, as the player plays more games: the new awards, the quickly awarded medals, the automatic PMs with helpful hints and map data, and the protection from farmers and protection from the worst of the site will positively affect the player’s experience. This will affect how frequently the player comes back to the site. With automatic emails and links to helpful information on closed topics (no flaming, no rabble to read through) new players will (more than ever before) be provided with information on how to understand each aspect of the game, new maps, and game options. “Site Enjoyment”
  • Fifth, fewer games are ruined by New Recruits. A team game with a new recruit means the opposing team gets an easy win 90% of the time. It takes work to lose to a new recruit in a team game. Similarly, a New Recruit can ruin a multiplayer game on a complicated map. I shouldn’t need to go into specifics on this. Players who don’t know the game options and the maps act as a wild card tipping the scales and invalidating the ranking system. Ultimately, more people will stick around if their games aren’t ruined by New Recruits. “Site Enjoyment and Player Retention of existing players”
  • Sixth, (and ancillary – this is not the main reason for this suggestion it is a fringe benefit) this will likely put an end to REAL MULTIS. I cannot fathom why someone would want multiple accounts, it is difficult enough for me to handle my account and the games I play. If it would take a veritable eternity for a player to earn the right to play in maps as a new player, I would think that multis would see less interest in investing time in “building” a new multi.
  • Seventh, (a fringe benefit of a fringe benefit) because it would be so much more difficult to start a new multi, it would be less likely that an account coming out of the same IP address is a real multi. PERCEIVED MULTIS, better said: multiple accounts in the same household owned by separate individuals, are accused of being multis and banned simply because they enter the site off of the same IP address. My husband and I are victims of this and were banned from playing together for a long time. The site will have to put less effort into multi-hunting and could potentially lean frequently towards accepting that more than one person in a home, a fraternity house, a dorm, a business, a webcafe, a public library, an airport, and/or a hotel could be playing on ConquerClub as separately owned accounts.
  • Eighth, (also ancillary and a fringe benefit) this will help to put damper on the activities of farmers. There have been quite a few players who have been restricted, banned, or otherwise for REAL FARMING by contacting new recruits and sucking them into complicated maps with complicated options. While farmers could still set game options that new players are allowed to play in, ConquerClub could also limit communication between new recruits and seasoned players. Farmers could also sit and wait until a player has unlocked all of the options; therefore, this wouldn’t “kill” farming.
  • Ninth, (a fringe benefit of a fringe benefit) There have been quite a few players who have been restricted, banned, or otherwise for simply starting games on particular maps. This PERCEIVED FARMING is not actually farming and the players who have been punished for it were punished unfairly. To Farm, a player must actively seek out victims by posting on their wall or in the game chat, or sending a PM inviting the victim to join a game on a difficult map with difficult settings. Simply starting games on difficult maps is not farming. The site will have to put less effort into finding farmers and punishing them. The players who have been unfairly limited on the site can be allowed to freely roam the site. Fewer players will post complaints about the unfair punishment of players.
Additional thoughts
This is an edit from a much broader and more comprehensive training program unlocking different aspects after every 5 completed games up to the 80th completed game.

Your Further Input on this Suggestion and Objections
Please Respond! Consider this suggestion to be fluid and putty-like. I am by no means stuck to the original suggestion and willing to hear all input!
---
Stats for postings on this topic:
Unique Opinions: (Total): Page1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35,
Unique posters in support: (36): 3, 2, 2, 3, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 2, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 6, 0, 0, 1
Unique off topic w/o opinion: (8): 2, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0,
Unique posters on the fence: (10): 2, 0, 1, 1, 2, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1,
Unique posters against: (17): 0, 3, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 2, 0, 1, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1,

Support from 36 members.
Posters against: 17.

2/3 majority wins. However, this is a Canadian site, so it goes to the Queen...and I say: "Do it!"
Last edited by Queen_Herpes on Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:41 am, edited 13 times in total.
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time..

Postby Woodruff on Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:12 pm

Excellent suggestion.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby stahrgazer on Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:30 am

I like the general idea of locking ? and inexperienced out of complicated games - to prevent them being farmed - but not the settings things.

For example, if I couldn't play fog or chained settings for 10, 20, 30... etc. games, I wouldn't have stayed past realizing it.

Also, the doubles... one of the easiest ways to learn a map is to play on a team with a more experienced player, so not allowing doubles for that long doesn't make sense.
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:11 pm

Lack already does limit New Recruits (but not inexperienced players---since that is a whole different banana bunch).

Instructions - Score, Ranking, Medal wrote:New Recruits must earn a promotion to join Assassin games, Terminator games, team games, large games (6 or more players) and games on complex maps (they will be hidden from Join A Game and Game Finder listings). These restrictions do not apply to private games.


Lack also has a list of maps that are immediately viewable to New Recruits. Others they cannot view until they reach their promotion. I think every new map gets put on this list for a duration of time. Eventually Lack will go through the list, and shuffle maps out of those prohibited for New Recruits---and may add others in, if they seem to contribute to New Recruits leaving the website.

However, I don't know if gradually unlocking more things (and thus prohibiting more things) at other Ranks, is a model that Lack wants to pursue. There is a fine line between protecting your customers/possible customers, and inhibiting their enjoyment of the website.


--Andy
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby Queen_Herpes on Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:18 pm

stahrgazer wrote:I like the general idea of locking ? and inexperienced out of complicated games - to prevent them being farmed

Thank you, unlocking maps and aspects of games is a big part of gaming in many other video games.

stahrgazer wrote:if I couldn't play fog or chained settings for 10, 20, 30... etc. games, I wouldn't have stayed past realizing it.

I can't say that I agree. While fog may be fun to you now, a new player who doesn't know the maps can be farmed with fog, can potentially have no idea what is going on in a new map, and can get frustrated by the perceived lack of understanding of what is going on in the game.

stahrgazer wrote:the doubles... one of the easiest ways to learn a map is to play on a team with a more experienced player, so not allowing doubles for that long doesn't make sense.

Three things:
First, doubles is one of the ways that multis abuse the system. To allow multis access to doubles so quickly with a new recruit multi will allow multis to continue to abuse the system by creating new accounts that have full access to the parts of the game that are abusable.
Second, finding a doubles partner who is both friendly and helpful is a crap shoot. A new player could end up with another new player, a multi as a partner, or a bully. True, there is opportunity for a new player to potentially get into a game with a good samaritan, but chances lean more towards the negative.
Third, there are many aspects of doubles games that are potentially difficult to the new player:
-being able to fortify your teammate
-being able to attack your teammate
-knowing that if your teammate holds a bonus and your teammate eliminates the competition, then you also win
-in games with spoils knowing that you can cause a problem by acquiring a card when you have few armies and territories
-in games with spoils, knowing that you can seriously improve your chances of victory by taking out an opponent (both for cards and for reducing the number of opponents)
-order of play
-knowing that thinning yourself out can make it easier for the opponent team to: earn a card, take a bonus, win the game
-knowing that deploying to a teammate and not attacking on your turn is an effective strategy

While there are certainly many ways for a player to learn these strategies, I would think that it would be better for a new recruit to be able to learn about the maps, learn about the game options, and learn about other aspects of the game and the site before diving into doubles games. As mentioned, it is a common aspect of all video games to be able to unlock aspects of the game over time.
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby 72o on Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:31 pm

How can a multi abuse doubles?
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby Queen_Herpes on Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:42 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:Lack already does limit New Recruits (but not inexperienced players---since that is a whole different banana bunch).

Instructions - Score, Ranking, Medal wrote:New Recruits must earn a promotion to join Assassin games, Terminator games, team games, large games (6 or more players) and games on complex maps (they will be hidden from Join A Game and Game Finder listings). These restrictions do not apply to private games.

Understood, but giving access to these game options after the first promotion throws the beginner player into advanced play too quickly. I cannot remember, but the first promotion typically comes after, what, 20 games?

AndyDufresne wrote:Lack also has a list of maps that are immediately viewable to New Recruits. Others they cannot view until they reach their promotion. I think every new map gets put on this list for a duration of time. Eventually Lack will go through the list, and shuffle maps out of those prohibited for New Recruits---and may add others in, if they seem to contribute to New Recruits leaving the website.

Again, like lambs to the slaughter. To open up all maps to players who have simply reached their first promotion promotes inexperienced players participating in maps that are complex and potentially frustrating. You mention concern if New Recruits were to be "leaving the website" and I cannot imagine a new player leaving the site because they hadn't yet unlocked some of the Easter Eggs that the site provides. My guess is that most new players currently come to the site via from recommendations from other players. My husband recommended me, taught me, etc. A player who is introduced to the site by a benevolent user is likely to have support to get through the more difficult and advanced aspects of ConquerClub. However, a person who reaches this site via an internet search, a web advertisement, or a site that promotes online gaming, won't have support from a friend who uses the ConquerClub. They similarly won't know what is out there if Lack simply blocks the view of all the maps from new recruits. Allow new recruits to see what they could potentially unlock. (This is already present on the site with Speed Games. New Recruits and other non-Premium players can see the Speed Games, can click on the speed games, and can attempt to join a speed game. However, when they make that attempt an error message jumps up prompting them to “join the site” and “Pay for Premium.”) If new recruits can attempt to start a game with an unlocked map, prevent them from starting that game with an error message saying, “Map not yet unlocked for you. You must complete (7) more games to unlock this map. For more information about this map, click here (with a link to a locked forum page with information about the map.)

AndyDufresne wrote:However, I don't know if gradually unlocking more things (and thus prohibiting more things) at other Ranks, is a model that Lack wants to pursue. There is a fine line between protecting your customers/possible customers, and inhibiting their enjoyment of the website.
--Andy

First, and foremost, since you are an “employee” of the site, making reference to Lack in your comment carries a certain weight. I’d prefer to see Lack comment here than for references to be made to potential understandings or goals that Lack may or may not have.

Second, Part of the enjoyment of the site for new payers could come from unlocking new maps and new options. It certainly is an enjoyment for some players to “unlock” new medals when they have achieved certain goals.

And Finally, I never mentioned preventing Any Ranks from being locked out of any aspects of the site. My recommendation is that participation in games would eventually unlock these aspects of the site. Currently, there are players who whether fairly or unfairly are blocked or “locked out of” certain aspects of ConquerClub because of a real or perceived abuse of the system. Among many other things, this recommendation helps to squash any perceived abuse of the system by preventing otherwise well-meaning players from being blocked from playing certain maps simply because someone with power thought the player might be farming.
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby Queen_Herpes on Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:48 pm

72o wrote:How can a multi abuse doubles?


1) One account joins team one, another account joins team two.
2) A multi account in a doubles game could end up being "forgotten" if the multi account was not the "primary" account of the abuser, resulting in a loss.
3) A multi account user could intentionally lose a doubles game with the "secondary" account to lose points so that the abuser can team up with the "primary" account in a subsequent game to protect the loss of points in that subsequent game. Confusing, but I understand it.
4) There are probably more ways, this is just what I've come up with, which I think is sufficient for understanding.
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby vodean on Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:50 pm

Much of this stuff is done. i really dont think it would be productive to do more. A determined multi would not have been inhibited. I agree with andy. People would leave the site.
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby Queen_Herpes on Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:55 pm

I'd like to add that there are many players on this site who started playing a while back. When I started, there was no "Manual Deploy" Game Option. I learned the hard way about how difficult Manual Deploy can be. While we can certainly throw new recruits to the fire by allowing them to experience all aspects and all game options and all maps after their first promotion, I don't know how many of "us" would have stuck around if we had joined when everything was available to us right away.

My guess is that there are players who started playing ConquerClub before freestyle was an option, before Flat Rate Spoils, before clickable maps, and before many of the other fantastic game options that are available on this site came to fruition. We all have had the opportunity to learn about the site, learn about the game, learn about the maps as development occurred. A new Recruit today is being offered everything at once...something none of us had. (Well, some of us had more than others if we joined later in the evolution of the site.)

Why not allow new recruits the opportunity to learn at pace? I cannot remember playing any brand new video game at the "Advanced Level" on my first go. Can you?
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:57 pm

Right, Lack often has to have eyes and ears for him, hence the Suggestions and Big Reports moderators, in addition to all other volunteers on Team CC. Thus, here we are. ;)

And there definitely is an enjoyment aspect of "unlocking" things, though I don't think your video game model is applicable to Conquer Club in all aspects. We are (for better or worse) not a video game that encourages further play by unlocking levels, plots, etc. The limiting and eventual "unlocking" Conquer Club is looking for (at least in regards to this aspect---Medals and Ranks aside), is more oriented toward the prevention of abuse and user retention rate.

I understand your points about "letting the lambs loose to the slaughter" --- and I think it is a valid one indeed. However, as usual, a middle ground is almost always the best. So one has to figure out how to prevent this sudden rush/onslaught, while not strictly inhibiting user enjoyment in the website.


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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby Queen_Herpes on Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:02 pm

vodean wrote:Much of this stuff is done. i really dont think it would be productive to do more. A determined multi would not have been inhibited. I agree with andy. People would leave the site.

Nope, much of it is not done.

vodean wrote:Much of this stuff is done. i really dont think it would be productive to do more. A determined multi would not have been inhibited. I agree with andy. People would leave the site.

Certainly a determined multi will push and prod and eventually get what they want. This suggestion of mine, however, would potentially limit the creation of multi accounts as it would require considerably more time and effort to "raise" a multi.

vodean wrote:People would leave the site.

No current users would "leave the site" simply because new recruits had to go through a "training" regimine. New recruits who are offered a carrot-on-a-stick such as this are more likely to accept the challenge than they are likely to simply give up. I would imagine more would be gracious and positive about being shielded from playing PROs on ADVANCED maps with ADVANCED options from the get-go.
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby Queen_Herpes on Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:22 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:Right, Lack often has to have eyes and ears for him, hence the Suggestions and Big Reports moderators, in addition to all other volunteers on Team CC. Thus, here we are. ;)

And there definitely is an enjoyment aspect of "unlocking" things, though I don't think your video game model is applicable to Conquer Club in all aspects. We are (for better or worse) not a video game that encourages further play by unlocking levels, plots, etc. The limiting and eventual "unlocking" Conquer Club is looking for (at least in regards to this aspect---Medals and Ranks aside), is more oriented toward the prevention of abuse and user retention rate.

I understand your points about "letting the lambs loose to the slaughter" --- and I think it is a valid one indeed. However, as usual, a middle ground is almost always the best. So one has to figure out how to prevent this sudden rush/onslaught, while not strictly inhibiting user enjoyment in the website.


--Andy

You reference "retention rate" and "user enjoyment." Both are the most important aspects of owning an online gaming site. My suggestion speaks directly to both of those concerns. While there are ancillary benefits to my suggestion (limiting multis, limiting farming), the primary reason for my suggestion is "user enjoyment" and I think that strongly affects the "retention rate." Players who have challenges offered to them that are reasonably achievable and yet still somewhat challenging are more likely to enjoy the challenge and stick around.

My recommendation offers a reasonably achievable goal: participate in 10 games, unlock this cool thing; participate in 10 more games, unlock these other cool things; etc. My recommendation is still somewhat challenging because participation is required against other players who are in a similar boat. (Remember that advanced players can still join games started by new recruits going through this training, they simply have to stick with the game options available to those in training...basic, beginner, understandable, game options that don’t give an unfair advantage to the seasoned player.

The alternative is the current situation where new recruits are cherry-picked by veterans. I believe the current training provides more opportunities for players to be upset and to leave the site. If my first few games were against veterans who blasted me from the sky, I wouldn’t have stuck around. (Remember that I had a player who introduced me to the site and helped me to navigate…most new recruits aren’t going to have that.) I certainly have played in games with options and on maps where I posted something like this in the game chat: “How did you just get all those armies?” Man, was that frustrating! Imagine how frustrating that can be, and how quickly a user would exit the site. I think you have a problem with enjoyment and retention, and that is what this suggestion speaks to!

Think about that perspective of the new player. Perhaps Lack can allow you and other “employees” to open test accounts. Or, better, find randoms off of the street and toss them to the site for the first time. Ask them what they get and don’t get. I think there is a lot that is confusing and can cause frustration. I think a functional training program, similar (if not exactly the same as my suggestion) would seriously benefit user enjoyment and retention.
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby Kotaro on Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:00 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:Lack also has a list of maps that are immediately viewable to New Recruits. Others they cannot view until they reach their promotion. I think every new map gets put on this list for a duration of time. Eventually Lack will go through the list, and shuffle maps out of those prohibited for New Recruits---and may add others in, if they seem to contribute to New Recruits leaving the website.

--Andy


The list needs to be reevaluated. Now. Not in a few weeks, not when lack feels like it, but now. Many players are receiving unwarranted and unjust warnings because your laziness to fix a problem that has been present for months now, going all the way back to the first warning you gave Tezu.

Fix your current problems before you add more features and more problems.
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby Queen_Herpes on Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:13 pm

Kotaro wrote:
AndyDufresne wrote:Lack also has a list of maps that are immediately viewable to New Recruits. Others they cannot view until they reach their promotion. I think every new map gets put on this list for a duration of time. Eventually Lack will go through the list, and shuffle maps out of those prohibited for New Recruits---and may add others in, if they seem to contribute to New Recruits leaving the website.

--Andy


The list needs to be reevaluated. Now. Not in a few weeks, not when lack feels like it, but now. Many players are receiving unwarranted and unjust warnings because your laziness to fix a problem that has been present for months now, going all the way back to the first warning you gave Tezu.

Fix your current problems before you add more features and more problems.


While this isn't driectly related to my suggestion, it is an ancillary benefit. The first promotion happens quickly. Players can still be farmed after the first promotion. While updating the list will be helpful to those being accused of farming new recruits on specific maps, it will not end the perceived farming of players who have recently achieved their first promotion. Thank you for the comment.
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby Kotaro on Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:23 pm

Yeah, sorry about that, but Andy hiding behind the same old excuse of "lackattack has a list set up from TWO YEARS AGO that protects all the newbies from being farmed", is quite old.

Whether or not your idea is better, we'll see. But this defense of his was weak a year ago, and it's weak now.
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby Queen_Herpes on Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:31 pm

Kotaro wrote:Yeah, sorry about that, but Andy hiding behind the same old excuse of "lackattack has a list set up from TWO YEARS AGO that protects all the newbies from being farmed", is quite old.

Whether or not your idea is better, we'll see. But this defense of his was weak a year ago, and it's weak now.


I am doing some research on maps and I will edit my original posting to reflect that research. As to Andy's weak defense, I didn't really consider it a defense of his argument, he simply alluded to Lack and attempted to speak for Lack, which I didn't really consider to be much of anything. He should allow Lack to make his own comments, and, yes, Lack should update the Map list for New Recruits (if nothing else.)
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby Bruceswar on Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:45 pm

Just as a note flat rate should be first over escalating spoils. Many new players do not understand escalating, but flat rate and taking bonuses... yes. :)
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby Pvt. Stroker on Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:58 pm

I think this is a terrible idea. The main reason I like conquer club so much is that there are so many maps to choose from, you don't have to just play the classic. I like the classic map, but if that was the only one I could play, I would have lost interest sometime in October.
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby Queen_Herpes on Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:01 pm

Bruceswar wrote:Just as a note flat rate should be first over escalating spoils. Many new players do not understand escalating, but flat rate and taking bonuses... yes. :)


I was going off of the recommendation from a friend that a majority of people who come to this site have played the infamous board game which share similarities with this site. In the board game, escalating spoils is the basic game option that people have played for a long time.

I agree with you, Bruceswar, that Flat Rate would benefit new players, but I think it would confuse veterans of the board game. A quandary that I decided to err on the side of the flow of what is more likely to be the new visitor to this site (at the current time.)
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby VampireM on Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:18 pm

i would keep it escalating as queen_Herpes said its what the board game had...

great idea, only thing i could think of is that maybe you should allow them a little more maps, lets say a choice between 5-10 all the very basic maps.. i feel it might be a happy middle ground for players that want to try a different map right away..

either way this idea is a good one =D>
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby Bruceswar on Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:31 pm

yeah but real life Escalating is never played like CC Escalating... people want to chase bonuses, which flat rate more suits...
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby the.killing.44 on Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:35 pm

Bruceswar wrote:yeah but real life Escalating is never played like CC Escalating... people want to chase bonuses, which flat rate more suits...

Solution: do not allow new players to play escalating with 4+ players.
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby nippersean on Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:21 pm

C'mon guys - don't you think this is overdone? Banning new players from playing anything other than a classic clone? And only at setttings that you yourself find difficult - reality check methinks - some experienced players are rubbish at e.g. esc / complicated maps - should we ban them at that setting too?

What's happening here?

This is ridiculous and will prevent new players from enjoying many great fun maps.

If farming is the problem, shouldn't that be the thing that should be tackled?
Maybe a warning / guidance for new members when joining f/s, but there is cooks society Q&A for people that struggle.

Sledgehammer to crack a nut if you ask me.

Biggest thing thing on this site that puts off new members IMO is not being beaten but mean and abusive comments.

Condescending thread.....
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Re: Limit New Players to Classic AND unlock maps over time...

Postby AndyDufresne on Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:38 pm

Queen_Herpes wrote:
Kotaro wrote:Yeah, sorry about that, but Andy hiding behind the same old excuse of "lackattack has a list set up from TWO YEARS AGO that protects all the newbies from being farmed", is quite old.

Whether or not your idea is better, we'll see. But this defense of his was weak a year ago, and it's weak now.


I am doing some research on maps and I will edit my original posting to reflect that research. As to Andy's weak defense, I didn't really consider it a defense of his argument, he simply alluded to Lack and attempted to speak for Lack, which I didn't really consider to be much of anything. He should allow Lack to make his own comments, and, yes, Lack should update the Map list for New Recruits (if nothing else.)


I'd just like to point out Lack surely can make his own comments (and does!), but he often doesn't always have the time--thus why we have Team CC. To be his eyes, ears, and sometimes mouth. ;)


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