[Forum] Give Permissoin to Edit Forum Posts

[Chuuuuck]

Concise description:
When creating a post in a thread, have an option to allow other users on your friends list to edit that post

Specifics/Details:
Code into the way the forum works an option where multiple people that you choose can edit certain posts that you choose to give permission to.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
This would be a great organizational tool for many usergroups, particularly clans and most likely tournament directors. Clans often have to rely on whoever wrote an original post to handle all of the organization for any particular topic. Whereas if someone could give permission to other users to edit that post, then this could easily spread throughout many people. At the bottom of the post, the line that indicates how many times the post has been edited can tell you who it was last edited by.

[AndyDufresne]

The suggestion definitely has some merit, though I think it is more of a suggestion for phpBB's Development Team than say our Tech Team (if it is possible at all).


--Andy

[Chuuuuck]

Well, I would also settle for us allowing account sharing (very simple, easy solution) for the purpose of editing organizational threads. I know this was openly done in the past, but it seems more of a no-no now after C&A cases.

[agentcom]

Would anyone have any problem with a dummy account? Say you opened an account called TOFU admin and shared that password with whichever members you wanted to be able to exercise this control. Would anyone have a problem with this if TOFU admin never joined any games? I know this isn't the best solution ... perhaps a non-phpbb thing that could go along with this is if the CC could make some accounts not able to enter games. Then everything would be above-board without chance of abuse (as far as multis go).

But this would be a good suggestion to make on the phpbb to get the full effect of what you desire.

[ljex]

Would anyone have any problem with a dummy account? Say you opened an account called TOFU admin and shared that password with whichever members you wanted to be able to exercise this control. Would anyone have a problem with this if TOFU admin never joined any games? I know this isn't the best solution ... perhaps a non-phpbb thing that could go along with this is if the CC could make some accounts not able to enter games. Then everything would be above-board without chance of abuse (as far as multis go).

But this would be a good suggestion to make on the phpbb to get the full effect of what you desire.

That's actually a really good idea from the cc user side of things. Not sure if the admins would approve but that would be a great help to clans with regards to threads and their upkeep both within a clan and for the first post of war threads.

[chapcrap]

Would anyone have any problem with a dummy account? Say you opened an account called TOFU admin and shared that password with whichever members you wanted to be able to exercise this control. Would anyone have a problem with this if TOFU admin never joined any games? I know this isn't the best solution ... perhaps a non-phpbb thing that could go along with this is if the CC could make some accounts not able to enter games. Then everything would be above-board without chance of abuse (as far as multis go).

But this would be a good suggestion to make on the phpbb to get the full effect of what you desire.

Genius.

[Victor Sullivan]

Would anyone have any problem with a dummy account? Say you opened an account called TOFU admin and shared that password with whichever members you wanted to be able to exercise this control. Would anyone have a problem with this if TOFU admin never joined any games? I know this isn't the best solution ... perhaps a non-phpbb thing that could go along with this is if the CC could make some accounts not able to enter games. Then everything would be above-board without chance of abuse (as far as multis go).

But this would be a good suggestion to make on the phpbb to get the full effect of what you desire.

That's actually a really good idea from the cc user side of things. Not sure if the admins would approve but that would be a great help to clans with regards to threads and their upkeep both within a clan and for the first post of war threads.

Indeed! I quite like this idea.

-Sully

[Dako]

It would be great if admins support such dummy accounts.

[cookie0117]

This would take a massive pain out of everyones ass. This is a fantastic idea

[Serbia]

Instead of dummy accounts, I'd rather see clan and social group leaders be made "mods" over the clan/social group they lead. This way, they have all the tools and powers of a moderator, minus paddle access, over their specific forum. Which is something I believe has been suggested many times, and is an update long overdue.

[Swifte]

I shared this concern in the CLA forum, but i'll post it here publiclly as well.

The main concern any time you have a shared account is the potential for someone to abuse it, and the fact that it would be abused pretty much anonymously. Suppose leaders of a clan had a messy fallout, one could abuse the privalages of having the account before they are removed... and no one would know for sure who was to blame.. finger pionting ensues... or potentially one would change the password, delete a bunch of important posts in the forums, wreck all kinds of havok in there, before they are removed. Hopefully no one would resort to it, but it has to be stated that it is the main risk with a shared account.

In this case perhaps the rewards outweight that risk, but if it were to happen it could cause a real mess.

[Ickyketseddie]

Great idea. I think swiftes points valid tho so serbia's idea would be preferential.

Add delete posts to the list of powers too though. I'm forever thinking we need to clean up our clan forum. Whats the odds of being able to manage subforums in our clan forums also? Maybe limited in numbers?

[ljex]

Instead of dummy accounts, I'd rather see clan and social group leaders be made "mods" over the clan/social group they lead. This way, they have all the tools and powers of a moderator, minus paddle access, over their specific forum. Which is something I believe has been suggested many times, and is an update long overdue.

I agree that the above is ideal, but clans have been requesting that for years to this point with no results. If given permission, these clan accounts could be created tomorrow and used until updates providing clan leaders with moderation powers happen.

[Chuuuuck]

The dummy account is a genius idea. So much so that I thought about it long before I made this suggestion thread. I already asked admin if they would let our clan do this, and King Achilles in his infinite wisdom said no.

From what I gathered from the conversation, rules are rules, and they can not be broken regardless if it violates the intent of the rules. We can not use common sense or personal judgement in these matters. If you believe the rules are in place to make this a better experience for us all, you are mistaken, they are there to be obeyed blindly.

Without explanation, I was told we would blindly follow the rules and not allow multiple accounts.

The way I read into it, change is too much of a headache for them, they would rather not change anything that makes it easier on us to use their site if there is potential that it might cause the slightest bit of work for them in the future.

[agentcom]

Suppose leaders of a clan had a messy fallout, one could abuse the privalages of having the account before they are removed... and no one would know for sure who was to blame.. finger pionting ensues... or potentially one would change the password, delete a bunch of important posts in the forums, wreck all kinds of havok in there, before they are removed. Hopefully no one would resort to it, but it has to be stated that it is the main risk with a shared account.

In this case perhaps the rewards outweight that risk, but if it were to happen it could cause a real mess.

It sounds like many agree with your last statement, but there may be selection bias here.

As for your concerns: I think that sounds like a problem with who you allow in your clan or at least in leadership positions. I know it happens but if it did, I would think that whoever the Clan Mods are could lock the posts and restore order fairly quickly. And I don't know how many important posts there are in the clans (not being a member myself), but it wouldn't be too hard to keep the really important ones backed up in a couple page word document.

[agentcom]

So, I just discovered that the mods have separate forums where various rules are clarified (among other things, I assume). The "rules" are not actually published, but I believe that they are guidelines and clarifications for the C&A mods. Among them is some version of this:

Subject: account sitting abuse Profits braddy[WARNED]es

interesting chat but one part of the rule has been missed.

there is a rule covering account sharing what they were doing here was sharing there accounts with there teammates.

Account-Sitting:

Being on another player's account for ANY reasons other than taking turns when they are in danger of missing a turn, or posting to necessary Tournament or Clan related public forum topics, is not allowed. Abuse of this privilege can be considered account sharing and could result in a Bust for both accounts.

Now what that has to do with this post is this: It would already be OK for the clan leader to give out his p/w to certain clan members to allow them to edit posts.

I think that this takes a lot of wind out of the sails of the people who don't like the idea of Clan Admin accounts. Right now, the effective and allowed way of doing what you all want to do is to give out your PERSONAL p/w to other clan members. To me this seems like something that is FAR more likely to cause strife if there is a falling out. Any safeguards that are in place to protect against this possibility could likewise be used for these proposed Clan Admin accounts (i.e. what to do if someone changes the p/w or deletes a bunch of posts).

The ONLY additional step to get a better system in place is to prevent Clan Admin accounts from playing games. This could be done with a rule: "If your Clan Admin joins a game, you will lose privileges [maybe for a certain amount of time] to have a Clan Admin account [and you're back to the old way of doing things]." Or it could be done with a feature: The site would disable the Join Game buttons for these users. (Note that you would not want to disable a ton of features on these accounts, as the Clan Admin may still want to create/find/link to games and do other things.)

[Chuuuuck]

So, I just discovered that the mods have separate forums where various rules are clarified (among other things, I assume). The "rules" are not actually published, but I believe that they are guidelines and clarifications for the C&A mods. Among them is some version of this:

Subject: account sitting abuse Profits braddy[WARNED]es

interesting chat but one part of the rule has been missed.

there is a rule covering account sharing what they were doing here was sharing there accounts with there teammates.

Account-Sitting:

Being on another player's account for ANY reasons other than taking turns when they are in danger of missing a turn, or posting to necessary Tournament or Clan related public forum topics, is not allowed. Abuse of this privilege can be considered account sharing and could result in a Bust for both accounts.

Now what that has to do with this post is this: It would already be OK for the clan leader to give out his p/w to certain clan members to allow them to edit posts.

I think that this takes a lot of wind out of the sails of the people who don't like the idea of Clan Admin accounts. Right now, the effective and allowed way of doing what you all want to do is to give out your PERSONAL p/w to other clan members. To me this seems like something that is FAR more likely to cause strife if there is a falling out. Any safeguards that are in place to protect against this possibility could likewise be used for these proposed Clan Admin accounts (i.e. what to do if someone changes the p/w or deletes a bunch of posts).

The ONLY additional step to get a better system in place is to prevent Clan Admin accounts from playing games. This could be done with a rule: "If your Clan Admin joins a game, you will lose privileges [maybe for a certain amount of time] to have a Clan Admin account [and you're back to the old way of doing things]." Or it could be done with a feature: The site would disable the Join Game buttons for these users. (Note that you would not want to disable a ton of features on these accounts, as the Clan Admin may still want to create/find/link to games and do other things.)

Where did you find this quote. I saw Evil Semp post about question 19, but it didn't say anything about posting on clan material.

[agentcom]

If you click the link in my post, that's where I found it. It's the fifth post down on page 3. Based on some context I got from another thread (that I can't find right now), the information came from someone who was a mod at the time. The mod got the information from the mod guidelines for C&A punishments. I don't believe that these are made public (as could be seen by the discussion of eddie's post in the other thread that I can't find ... dammit and sorry).

Of course, I have no way of verifying this (not being a mod and all). Basically, my post above and the linked material is all the information I have (plus the other thread ... I promise I'm not making this up). From it, I tried to make my best guess as to how to interpret it. And I based my suggestion and comments off of that.

[agentcom]

It's quoted again here:

Subject: Will the Real Gen.LeeGettinhed please stand up![CLEARED]es

in response to owen i think this part of 1 rule will apply.

Account-Sitting:

Players are allowed to account-sit for others as long as they are not opponents within the game. When sitting for a player, you need to post who you are and how long you will be sitting for the player so that other players in the game are aware of who they are actually playing.
Being on another player's account for ANY reasons other than taking turns when they are in danger of missing a turn, or posting to necessary Tournament or Clan related public forum topics, is not allowed. Abuse of this privilege can be considered account sharing and could result in a Bust for both accounts.

so this case is focused on account sharing that has been happening for several years and is still happening.....

or

that the 2 accounts are multis....

a while back my kid wanted to start playing my wife had a account that she used i think once i asked admin if my kid could just use that account and was told nooo as it would be classed as account sharing and result in that account being banned.

There are some other places where it is quoted. You have to be decent at using the search function, but it can be found out there, though I haven't see it quoted by an active mod in my searches today. But neither have I seen it refuted by any mods. If you want to try to dig deeper, try doing a search for a particular phrase from the text. For example run a search for ["or posting to necessary tournament"] but omit the brackets. Or use advanced search. Or something :/

[Ace Rimmer]

Yes, there are expanded guidelines for the moderators in hidden forums.

[agentcom]

Thanks Ace. I believe that based on the context that I've pointed out. But I've still yet to see it confirmed by a mod. Not really that important cuz I doubt this stuff is just being made up.

But given that this is the case, my points remain. You are explicitly (well sort of ... it's explicit in the hidden mod rules) allowed to go onto other players' accounts to edit clan stuff. But creating a new account would put in violation of multi rules. So, you're allowed to use another player's accounts (otherwise a violation of multi rules) to edit forum. Why not allow the creation of these dummy accounts (otherwise a violation of multi rules) to do the same thing. This seems like a better solution than a clan leader having to give out their personal info to get the same result.

[chapcrap]

Ace used to be a mod.

I'll confirm as a current mod.

[Chuuuuck]

So how does this stupid suggestion area work? They just let you post a great idea like let us use a dummy account or allow us to edit each others posts with permission. They read it, ignore it, and nothing is ever done?

I don't see ANYONE here against it.

[Ace Rimmer]

So how does this stupid suggestion area work? <snip> They read it, ignore it, and nothing is ever done?

Welcome to suggestions

[Serbia]

Well I am against the dummy account idea, as that goes against the #1 rule of the site. But I am all for giving the clan/usergroup leader(s) certain moderator permissions within their private forum. I can't believe it wasn't done years ago, honestly.