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[GP] Automatically Award Spoils Even if a Player Times Out

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Automatically award a spoil to a player that takes a territory:

Never. Timing out to avoid getting a spoil is a valid strategy.
19
23%
Always. Any player that takes a territory in any game type should be awarded a spoil, even if he doesn't click "End Turn."
47
56%
For all games except speed and/or freestyle. It's a key part of the timing in those games and should be preserved.
18
21%
 
Total votes : 84

[GP] Automatically Award Spoils Even if a Player Times Out

Postby zorba_ca on Sun May 14, 2006 1:08 pm

Final suggestion: A spoil is awarded at the end of every turn in which a territory is conquered, regardless of whether the player runs out of time.

Doc_Brown wrote:(Apologies if this has been submitted before. I looked and didn't see anything, but I may well have missed it.)
Concise description:
Eliminate the ability for a player to take his turn, capture or bombard a territory, then time out without being awards spoils. If a player times out on his turn, he will automatically be awarded any spoils he would have received if he ended his turn normally.
Alternatively, clarify that this is officially recognized as an acceptable and valid tactic on this site.

Specifics/Details:
In escalating and nuclear spoils games, some players will start their turns, capture territories (to break bonuses or interfere with opponents), then refuse to manually end their turns to avoid receiving spoils. This is widely considered to be cheap tactic and is now being penalized in clan tournaments. Dako was removed as head of CCup4, presumably due to refusal to include a rule allowing Clan Directors to enforce penalties for using this tactic. Evidently, multiple members of Team CC believe this should not be allowed.

There are times when people time out accidentally, due to connectivity problems or real-life interruptions. Unlike the case where they completely miss their turns, these individuals have started their turns, deployed troops, and engaged in one or more battles. For all intents and purposes, they have completed their turns, so it seems unnecessary to penalize them. On the other hand, a rule against timing out in clan play requires a subjective judgement about a player's intentions.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • Automatically awarding spoils will eliminate a possible cheap strategy.
  • It will reduce the burden on clan directors, since they will no longer have to investigate timing-out complaints.
  • It will eliminate a need for a subjective judgement about a player's intentions.
  • In accidental cases, it will remove a penalty for currently incurred for accidental timing out due to real-life interference.
  • If this is considered an acceptable strategy by Conquer Club as a whole, an official statement to that effect would clarify the situation for everyone.


Compromise Proposal:
Automatically award spoils earned in all sequential games. Allow timing out without receiving spoils in freestyle games.

From the comments I've seen, it appears that the majority of the people that favor being able to avoid spoils do so in speed freestyle games. I don't like the idea of different rules between speed and casual games. However, freestyle already has different rules from sequential and allows for other types of tactics related to timing of turns. Also, freestyle games are not permitted in normal clan play, so this change would take care of all clan-related concerns about the rule.
Advantages
  • Clan players no longer have to worry about someone making a subjective judgement on motives when someone times out.
  • Speed freestylers keep their lost spoils penalties for those that delay too long.
  • The same rules apply in clan games and non clan games.
  • There are no rule differences between casual and speed games.
  • It becomes explicitly clear that timing out to avoid spoils is an accepted tactic in freestyle games (where precise timing of turns is already a key component of winning).
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Postby Marvaddin on Sun May 14, 2006 1:23 pm

When you dont want a card, I presume? Well I think card management is part of the strategy, and so I cant support this idea...
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Postby Derwiddle on Sun May 14, 2006 1:31 pm

Just don't conquer a territory... Or just don't play until the person you're waiting on to hand in cards has played. Then you can play and hand in your cards after them. Of course it doesn't work too well in a sequential game...
Last edited by Derwiddle on Mon May 15, 2006 6:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby kingwaffles on Sun May 14, 2006 8:21 pm

No offense, but this just doesn't seem like a very useful idea to me. Cards are extremly important and who would voluntaril give up that advantage? I guess if someone doesn't want to get eliminated they might use it... But if you really don't want a card fro some bizzare reason then don't take a country...
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Postby wacicha on Sun May 14, 2006 8:49 pm

my partner is on the east coast in n carolina i am in california he forgot to end i called his cell and said" you near your computer he said yaeh why i said cause i know you really worked hard for that card lol so he then ended but even in that situation if you don't remember it is not snyone elses fault you lose i have also emailed other players and it has cost me the game i'm a good joe but if you do not end and an hour goes by you should lose and if you lose 2 or 3 times it should be a learning experiance
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Postby Jota on Sun May 14, 2006 9:27 pm

kingwaffles wrote:Cards are extremly important and who would voluntaril give up that advantage?


Someone in an Escalating game who doesn't want to reach five cards and be forced to be the first one to trade them in.
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Postby kingwaffles on Sun May 14, 2006 9:32 pm

I can see the point there, I just don't think that should be allowed as a strategy, if you really don't want a card then don't take a country....
Granted I barely play escalating anymore, so I guess I shouldn't talk....
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Postby wacicha on Sun May 14, 2006 9:35 pm

your playing it in a minute
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Postby Jota on Sun May 14, 2006 9:38 pm

Oh, I agree that it shouldn't be allowed. I was just pointing out a circumstance when some people might wish to get around that rule.

Of course, with this rule change, you might well have Escalating games where no one ever turns in any cards. And that would just be boring.
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Postby zorba_ca on Mon May 15, 2006 12:38 am

This thread is meant to discuss whether or not a person should be able to opt not to take a card.

Please do not discuss what should or should not happen if a person does not click "end turn". There is a different thread for that.

It should be obvious why a player may not want the extra card. But Jota raises a good point - If no player opts to take a card it makes for a boring game. Yet, the person who opts to take cards would be in an advantageous position and therefore others would want to keep up in the card department.

Still, not taking a card could be part of the strategy.

More votes!
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Postby fluffybunnykins on Mon May 15, 2006 6:26 am

yeah, just don't take a territory if you don't want a card
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Postby Mjolnirs on Mon May 15, 2006 8:01 am

The answer to the question is no.
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[GP] Automatically Award Spoils Even if a Player Times Out

Postby mightyal on Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:48 am

Final suggestion: A spoil is awarded at the end of every turn in which a territory is conquered, regardless of whether the player runs out of time.

Doc_Brown wrote:(Apologies if this has been submitted before. I looked and didn't see anything, but I may well have missed it.)
Concise description:
Eliminate the ability for a player to take his turn, capture or bombard a territory, then time out without being awards spoils. If a player times out on his turn, he will automatically be awarded any spoils he would have received if he ended his turn normally.
Alternatively, clarify that this is officially recognized as an acceptable and valid tactic on this site.

Specifics/Details:
In escalating and nuclear spoils games, some players will start their turns, capture territories (to break bonuses or interfere with opponents), then refuse to manually end their turns to avoid receiving spoils. This is widely considered to be cheap tactic and is now being penalized in clan tournaments. Dako was removed as head of CCup4, presumably due to refusal to include a rule allowing Clan Directors to enforce penalties for using this tactic. Evidently, multiple members of Team CC believe this should not be allowed.

There are times when people time out accidentally, due to connectivity problems or real-life interruptions. Unlike the case where they completely miss their turns, these individuals have started their turns, deployed troops, and engaged in one or more battles. For all intents and purposes, they have completed their turns, so it seems unnecessary to penalize them. On the other hand, a rule against timing out in clan play requires a subjective judgement about a player's intentions.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
  • Automatically awarding spoils will eliminate a possible cheap strategy.
  • It will reduce the burden on clan directors, since they will no longer have to investigate timing-out complaints.
  • It will eliminate a need for a subjective judgement about a player's intentions.
  • In accidental cases, it will remove a penalty for currently incurred for accidental timing out due to real-life interference.
  • If this is considered an acceptable strategy by Conquer Club as a whole, an official statement to that effect would clarify the situation for everyone.


Compromise Proposal:
Automatically award spoils earned in all sequential games. Allow timing out without receiving spoils in freestyle games.

From the comments I've seen, it appears that the majority of the people that favor being able to avoid spoils do so in speed freestyle games. I don't like the idea of different rules between speed and casual games. However, freestyle already has different rules from sequential and allows for other types of tactics related to timing of turns. Also, freestyle games are not permitted in normal clan play, so this change would take care of all clan-related concerns about the rule.
Advantages
  • Clan players no longer have to worry about someone making a subjective judgement on motives when someone times out.
  • Speed freestylers keep their lost spoils penalties for those that delay too long.
  • The same rules apply in clan games and non clan games.
  • There are no rule differences between casual and speed games.
  • It becomes explicitly clear that timing out to avoid spoils is an accepted tactic in freestyle games (where precise timing of turns is already a key component of winning).
MOD EDIT: Copied OP

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Last edited by JamesKer1 on Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:43 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Reason: Added [GP/UI] Tag for index
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Postby Wisse on Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:56 am

i agree
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Postby juggernaut man on Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:14 pm

I agree. If your computer freezes or something or the website doesn't work then you could miss getting a card.
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Postby Ronaldinho on Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:19 pm

People use it as a tatic also. They capture territories and then they waste down the clock to not get a card. I think you SHOULDENT get a card if the clock runs down though. Speeds up the game if some gimp keep just using the 1hour everytime knowing he will get a card
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Postby tals on Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:31 pm

Ronaldinho wrote:People use it as a tatic also. They capture territories and then they waste down the clock to not get a card. I think you SHOULDENT get a card if the clock runs down though. Speeds up the game if some gimp keep just using the 1hour everytime knowing he will get a card


Hmm I hadn't realised that - no win my case it may just slow the game down :)

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Postby Evil Semp on Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:36 pm

I agree with getting a card. A couple of times the site went down during my turn and I didn't get a card.

How can it be used as a tatic?

The only time it might help is freestyle when someone else is playing at the same time. And then if you were paying attention you would know if they got a card. In Sequential nobody else gets their turn until that persons turn is over so you would see if they had a card. But then again I use the Grease Monkey script that shows the cards.

People don't lose their reinforcements for missing a turn, why should people get penalized for playing. Remember one of the main reason for not losing reinforcements is life happens. I think that would be reason to give them their card.
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Postby Ronaldinho on Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:39 pm

Im not sure really, maybe if you are on 4 cards and you DONT want to cash next turn or if you may not want to. If you have a set then its a win win situation,...
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Postby Evil Semp on Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:12 pm

But if you have a set and don't want to cash you should not attack. I mean why risk losing armies if you don't want a card.
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Postby Ronaldinho on Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:27 pm

Evil Semp wrote:But if you have a set and don't want to cash you should not attack. I mean why risk losing armies if you don't want a card.


If they get a country bonus. Maybe you want to reduce it down to 3 again...?
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Postby Evil Semp on Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:51 pm

Then you have to weigh you options, get a card or try to reduce their bonus.

Why should someone be penalized when the site goes down? I had it happen to me twice and my wife had it happen to her twice. Once was in a freestyle team game that probably cost us a game.


Maybe you should have the option of not taking a card then. The only time I see it as an advantage not to get a card is the beginning of an escalating game.
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Postby Backglass on Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:53 pm

Evil Semp wrote:I agree with getting a card. A couple of times the site went down during my turn and I didn't get a card.

How can it be used as a tatic?


Picture an escalating game and everyone on the board has (4) cards...you have two blue & two green. The next value is 20.

You can attack to your hearts content, then let the timer run out. YOU dont get a card, forcing you to use them in the next turn. Chances are howeverthat your opponents WILL, so when you do decide to use your cards you simply take the card and the higher redemtion value.

Did that make sense?
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Postby Evil Semp on Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:00 pm

Backglass wrote:
Picture an escalating game and everyone on the board has (4) cards...you have two blue & two green. The next value is 20.

You can attack to your hearts content, then let the timer run out. YOU dont get a card, forcing you to use them in the next turn. Chances are howeverthat your opponents WILL, so when you do decide to use your cards you simply take the card and the higher redemtion value.

Did that make sense?


If you have 2 blue and 2 green how does this force you to use them next turn? Did you mean not force you to trade next turn?

But in that case you would have to wait 2 turns to trade becasue you have 4 cards and no trade. by then you might be dead becasue if there were 4 or 5 trades before you can trade it probably makes you a good target.
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Postby joeyjordison on Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:01 pm

i know it is a tactic but i don't use it as it can slow the game down. i think there r reasons why it should b changed coz it can b penalising if there is a genium problem. i would vote to change it.
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