## Exponential Scoring System

Have any bright ideas? Share and discuss them with the community

Moderators: Suggestions Team, Global Moderators

Forum rules

And don't forget to search for previously suggested ideas first!

### Exponential Scoring System

The current scoring system is linear, this suggestion would switch it to an exponential model instead.

Concise description:
The current model is linear: If I have 2x someone's points, I'm expected to win four times as much (win = 10, loss = -40). With 4x, I have to win twenty(!) times as much (win = 5, loss = -80). My suggestion is to use the square root of the ratio instead. This would reduce the number of points for large differences in score. The change would not be retroactive, and would apply only to games completed after implementation.

Specifics/Details:
The current formula is: (loser's score / winner's score) * 20, max of 100.
My formula would be: (loser's score / winner's score)^1/2 * 20, max of 100.
This would change points awarded as follows:
Old points ----> New Points: Win(Loss)
Even: 20 -----> 20 (20)
1.5x Loser's Score: 13.4 (30) -----> 16 (24)
2x Loser's Score: 10 (40) -----> 14 (28)
3x Loser's Score: 6.6 (60) -----> 11.5 (34.6)

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
-The current model makes it extremely hard for highly ranked players to play lower ranked ones: given the luck factor, winning 10-20x in a row against someone of even middling skill is nearly impossible. This is even more pronounced in large games, at even 2x the point value it is necessary to win 1/3 of eight player games just to break even.
-It is not possible to restrict games by points, so higher ranked players tend to avoid public games and the massive potential point loss. When was the last time you saw a top 100 player in a public game cooks could join? This would allow top players to play more games without taking such massive score hits if they lose.
-This may alleviate the related fact that top players tend to play only one non-standard map against pre-selected opponents (for example, the current Conqueror only City Mogul 1v1, #2 plays only private games, etc). Hopefully this change will encourage them to use more variety.
-This would be a more accurate rating model, as it accounts for the luck factor: as point disparities increase, luck stays constant, so linear scores will not be a valid prediction of who wins (even scores might split 50/50, but 2x scores are less likely to split 4/1, and 4x scores are very unlikely to split 20/1).
-This would make score resets for cheaters more palatable, as it would reduce the number of points opponents lose while they attempt to regain their ranking./list]
Lord_Bremen

Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:22 am
Location: Chicago
Medals: 17

### Re: Exponential Scoring System

Lord_Bremen wrote:The current scoring system is linear, this suggestion would switch it to an exponential model instead.

Concise description:
The current model is linear: If I have 2x someone's points, I'm expected to win four times as much (win = 10, loss = -40). With 4x, I have to win twenty(!) times as much (win = 5, loss = -80). My suggestion is to use the square root of the ratio instead. This would reduce the number of points for large differences in score. The change would not be retroactive, and would apply only to games completed after implementation.

Specifics/Details:
The current formula is: (loser's score / winner's score) * 20, max of 100.
My formula would be: (loser's score / winner's score)^1/2 * 20, max of 100.
This would change points awarded as follows:
Old points ----> New Points: Win(Loss)
Even: 20 -----> 20 (20)
1.5x Loser's Score: 13.4 (30) -----> 16 (24)
2x Loser's Score: 10 (40) -----> 14 (28)
3x Loser's Score: 6.6 (60) -----> 11.5 (34.6)

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
-The current model makes it extremely hard for highly ranked players to play lower ranked ones: given the luck factor, winning 10-20x in a row against someone of even middling skill is nearly impossible. This is even more pronounced in large games, at even 2x the point value it is necessary to win 1/3 of eight player games just to break even.
-It is not possible to restrict games by points, so higher ranked players tend to avoid public games and the massive potential point loss. When was the last time you saw a top 100 player in a public game cooks could join? This would allow top players to play more games without taking such massive score hits if they lose.
-This may alleviate the related fact that top players tend to play only one non-standard map against pre-selected opponents (for example, the current Conqueror only City Mogul 1v1, #2 plays only private games, etc). Hopefully this change will encourage them to use more variety.
-This would be a more accurate rating model, as it accounts for the luck factor: as point disparities increase, luck stays constant, so linear scores will not be a valid prediction of who wins (even scores might split 50/50, but 2x scores are less likely to split 4/1, and 4x scores are very unlikely to split 20/1).
-This would make score resets for cheaters more palatable, as it would reduce the number of points opponents lose while they attempt to regain their ranking./list]

The whole "max of 100" thing should be removed. There should be enormous risk involved in playing someone you enormously outclass or there isn't. This artificial structure does nothing to help and, in fact, definitely leads to farming.

I realize that it's not something that is solely a part of your suggestion, as it also exists in the current system. But it should be done away with.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.

Woodruff

Posts: 4881
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27

### Re: Exponential Scoring System

Woodruff wrote:
The whole "max of 100" thing should be removed. There should be enormous risk involved in playing someone you enormously outclass or there isn't. This artificial structure does nothing to help and, in fact, definitely leads to farming.

I realize that it's not something that is solely a part of your suggestion, as it also exists in the current system. But it should be done away with.

Under my suggestion, you would only reach the 100 cap if you have 25x more points than your opponent. But we want higher ranked guys to play lower ones, that would be good for the game.
Lord_Bremen

Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:22 am
Location: Chicago
Medals: 17

### Re: Exponential Scoring System

Lord_Bremen wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
The whole "max of 100" thing should be removed. There should be enormous risk involved in playing someone you enormously outclass or there isn't. This artificial structure does nothing to help and, in fact, definitely leads to farming.

I realize that it's not something that is solely a part of your suggestion, as it also exists in the current system. But it should be done away with.

Under my suggestion, you would only reach the 100 cap if you have 25x more points than your opponent. But we want higher ranked guys to play lower ones, that would be good for the game.

I concur. With the drop in membership numbers, anything that allows more games to fill is a positive change.
show

DoomYoshi
Entertainment Contributor

Posts: 3475
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:30 pm
Location: Termina Field
Medals: 70

### Re: Exponential Scoring System

Lord_Bremen wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
The whole "max of 100" thing should be removed. There should be enormous risk involved in playing someone you enormously outclass or there isn't. This artificial structure does nothing to help and, in fact, definitely leads to farming.

I realize that it's not something that is solely a part of your suggestion, as it also exists in the current system. But it should be done away with.

Under my suggestion, you would only reach the 100 cap if you have 25x more points than your opponent. But we want higher ranked guys to play lower ones, that would be good for the game.

I am curious as to why that is something that is necessarily considered "good for the game". Major League Baseball would not consider it to be "good for the game" to have the San Francisco Giants play Southeast Community College. How are expected routs good for the game? Good competition is good for the game.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.

Woodruff

Posts: 4881
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2008 9:15 am
Medals: 27

### Re: Exponential Scoring System

Woodruff wrote:
I am curious as to why that is something that is necessarily considered "good for the game". Major League Baseball would not consider it to be "good for the game" to have the San Francisco Giants play Southeast Community College. How are expected routs good for the game? Good competition is good for the game.

Same reasons as given here: viewtopic.php?f=704&t=274
Lord_Bremen

Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:22 am
Location: Chicago
Medals: 17

### Re: Exponential Scoring System

Woodruff wrote:
Lord_Bremen wrote:The current scoring system is linear, this suggestion would switch it to an exponential model instead.

Concise description:
The current model is linear: If I have 2x someone's points, I'm expected to win four times as much (win = 10, loss = -40). With 4x, I have to win twenty(!) times as much (win = 5, loss = -80). My suggestion is to use the square root of the ratio instead. This would reduce the number of points for large differences in score. The change would not be retroactive, and would apply only to games completed after implementation.

Specifics/Details:
The current formula is: (loser's score / winner's score) * 20, max of 100.
My formula would be: (loser's score / winner's score)^1/2 * 20, max of 100.
This would change points awarded as follows:
Old points ----> New Points: Win(Loss)
Even: 20 -----> 20 (20)
1.5x Loser's Score: 13.4 (30) -----> 16 (24)
2x Loser's Score: 10 (40) -----> 14 (28)
3x Loser's Score: 6.6 (60) -----> 11.5 (34.6)

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:
-The current model makes it extremely hard for highly ranked players to play lower ranked ones: given the luck factor, winning 10-20x in a row against someone of even middling skill is nearly impossible. This is even more pronounced in large games, at even 2x the point value it is necessary to win 1/3 of eight player games just to break even.
-It is not possible to restrict games by points, so higher ranked players tend to avoid public games and the massive potential point loss. When was the last time you saw a top 100 player in a public game cooks could join? This would allow top players to play more games without taking such massive score hits if they lose.
-This may alleviate the related fact that top players tend to play only one non-standard map against pre-selected opponents (for example, the current Conqueror only City Mogul 1v1, #2 plays only private games, etc). Hopefully this change will encourage them to use more variety.
-This would be a more accurate rating model, as it accounts for the luck factor: as point disparities increase, luck stays constant, so linear scores will not be a valid prediction of who wins (even scores might split 50/50, but 2x scores are less likely to split 4/1, and 4x scores are very unlikely to split 20/1).
-This would make score resets for cheaters more palatable, as it would reduce the number of points opponents lose while they attempt to regain their ranking./list]

The whole "max of 100" thing should be removed. There should be enormous risk involved in playing someone you enormously outclass or there isn't. This artificial structure does nothing to help and, in fact, definitely leads to farming.

I realize that it's not something that is solely a part of your suggestion, as it also exists in the current system. But it should be done away with.

I'd have to go with no on removing the max on the cap. Take a user with an excessively low score. He could absolutely fly up the scoreboard if he get's a lucky win. Say the lowest person on the scoreboard was to luckily beat a Colonel with a score of 2500. With no cap, it would look like (2500/2)*20 = 25 000. Heck, even if he beat a NR, he would win 10 000 points. And that's only off 1 player! If he were to win a 8 player game...

TheForgivenOne

Posts: 5154
Joined: Fri May 15, 2009 8:27 pm
Location: Lost somewhere in the snow. HELP ME
Medals: 82

### Re: Exponential Scoring System

Woodruff wrote:
Lord_Bremen wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
The whole "max of 100" thing should be removed. There should be enormous risk involved in playing someone you enormously outclass or there isn't. This artificial structure does nothing to help and, in fact, definitely leads to farming.

I realize that it's not something that is solely a part of your suggestion, as it also exists in the current system. But it should be done away with.

Under my suggestion, you would only reach the 100 cap if you have 25x more points than your opponent. But we want higher ranked guys to play lower ones, that would be good for the game.

I am curious as to why that is something that is necessarily considered "good for the game". Major League Baseball would not consider it to be "good for the game" to have the San Francisco Giants play Southeast Community College. How are expected routs good for the game? Good competition is good for the game.

Some of us presume that points are less an indicator of skill than others. I think that those with points are just smart enough to play on settings that they win on. Some players are better and worse, but I don't think in most cases the distance is great enough to matter.
show

DoomYoshi
Entertainment Contributor

Posts: 3475
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:30 pm
Location: Termina Field
Medals: 70

### Re: Exponential Scoring System

I think this proposal is a fair one. It keeps risk for high ranked players, but minimizes absurd situations. A player who consistently wins/loses will still go up/down the table, but this will be a more gradual, less drastic change.
Welcoming the long awaited Trench Warfare Setting (Previously Adjacent Attacks).

My Maps:
Research and Conquer - Civilization meets Conquer Club

Best score: 2,346 - Best position: #618 - Best percentile: 4.87%

OliverFA

Posts: 2345
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:30 am
Location: Somewhere in Spain
Medals: 32

### Re: Exponential Scoring System

OliverFA wrote:I think this proposal is a fair one. It keeps risk for high ranked players, but minimizes absurd situations. A player who consistently wins/loses will still go up/down the table, but this will be a more gradual, less drastic change.

I agree. I like the proposal.

chapcrap
Tournament Director

Posts: 9576
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:46 am
Location: Kansas City
Medals: 167

### Re: Exponential Scoring System

Woodruff wrote:I am curious as to why that is something that is necessarily considered "good for the game". Major League Baseball would not consider it to be "good for the game" to have the San Francisco Giants play Southeast Community College. How are expected routs good for the game? Good competition is good for the game.

MLB is about entertainment. It's not entertaining to watch that game. But, if you're the Southeast Community College, you'd jump at the chance to play against the Giants, just for the experience of learning from good players. We juggle both casual and competitive players on this site, and if the casual players ever want to become more competitive, they can do so by playing the experts. I generally support ideas that encourage high and low ranked players to compete together, that don't encourage farming, and I think this is one such idea.

BTW: TFO is right, the cap has to stay.

Metsfanmax

Posts: 3715
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:01 pm
Location: NY
Medals: 41

### Re: Exponential Scoring System

For the record, my proposal had nothing to do with the cap - it leaves it unchanged. I'm not sure why the dude tried hijacking my thread about it.

I don't think anyone has had a problem with what I actually suggested so far.
Lord_Bremen

Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:22 am
Location: Chicago
Medals: 17

### Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests