Point Penalties for players who miss turns / deadbeat

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Point Penalties for players who miss turns / deadbeat

Postby ctgottapee on Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:35 am

every time a player misses a turn:
singles game> lose 2 points times the number of other players in the game immediately from their score
team game> lose 5 points times the number of other players on their team immediately from their score, ie 4player team loses 15 points because there are 3 other players; those 5 points go to each of the teammates
[the point total is not all that just for the teammates really, but it penalizes the turn misser for screwing up the game for the total number of players, ie messing up a larger player game is worse than just a few people as it effects more people]


if you deadbeat a game completely:
singles game> player pays each losing player the percentage of points lost based on the number of players. if it is a 6 player game, deadbeat pays each losing player 1/5 their lost point total back, plus they still lose their points for losing too.
team game> if team wins, deadbeat scores no points (teammates don't get points to prevent shinanigans of people trying to game the system with multi deadbeats to give themselves points)
if team loses, player pays each losing teammate half their lost points for screwing up the game (yes big penalty!)

this will improve game quality for all as people who are unsure of making turns won't join games willy-nilly or find people to take their turns. new players who turn instant deadbeats will see their score plummet fast appropriately and we will all be warned much faster. teammate penalties are drastic as the miss turn has a drastic consequence on the game.

missing turns is just far too casual a thing on conquer club and some tougher love is needed to improve the quality of play for all

the numbers could be adjusted, but i think they are a good start


ALSO new tags are needed "Missed Important Turn" & "Missed Multiple Turns"
Last edited by ctgottapee on Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Point Penalties for players who miss turns

Postby killmanic on Sun Aug 03, 2008 1:44 am

that would make playing new people who never show even better
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Re: Point Penalties for players who miss turns

Postby FabledIntegral on Sun Aug 03, 2008 4:08 am

dumbbbb.

Deadbeating is encouraged in speed games where people have to leave and no one wants them to suicide. This would promote suiciding even more to get out of a game.
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Re: Point Penalties for players who miss turns

Postby e_i_pi on Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:06 am

I'm all for it. The system of points distribution itself would have to undergo review. Not saying that it's bad, but it's a draft, and could do with some discussion and analysis of the potential outcomes.

I hear what Fabled is saying too though. It'd be nice to see some discussion on this topic. That's right - discussion. "You're either with us, or against us" isn't discussion :P

The thing that sticks out as good with this is those who are negatively affected by deadbeats (teammates specifically) get some compensation for it occuring. You'd have to make it so that if an entire team deadbeats, the last player on that team doesn't get more (from total deadbeats compo) than he loses from throwing the game, otherwise you'd be looking at more options for multi's.
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Re: Point Penalties for players who miss turns

Postby FabledIntegral on Sun Aug 03, 2008 5:13 am

Deadbeat is nothing more than an annoyance to players, GENERALLY speaking. The biggest problem is the time that the players have to sit through, not the change in strategy on the board. However I have seen before games where deadbeating has negatively influenced the game.. namely this one comes to mind.

http://www.conquerclub.com/game.php?game=2006020

Yellow deadbeating Africa directly freed up around 100 armies for Orange on Europe to plow through North America and South America... Green had slowly begun to expand to North America and abandon South (due to my sideline cheerleading)... and I actually ended up screwing him over... haha. Well it was a legit strat, assuming yellow didn't deadbeat.

Nonetheless, in general, I have much distaste for punishing deadbeaters, because as said before, deadbeating is encouraged to players who would sooner suicide to get out of the game if they knew something negatively would happen to them if they deadbeated.
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Re: Point Penalties for players who miss turns

Postby ctgottapee on Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:01 pm

so Fabled doesn't like it because he cares about speed games, in which deadbeating isn't an issue and in some cases is proper play

simple solution, no deadbeating penalties in single player speed games, problem solved; that wasn't hard and i didn't have to resort to ridicule.

however Fabled you are drastically wrong on the consequences of missed turns and deadbeating in other games, especially team games. it is pretty much a nuclear bomb in team games. note the point penalty is only a means to encourage people to play and not actually compensate fairly; this suggestion isn't about points, but about the QUALITY of play. deadbeaters destroy the quality of play, whether they help you or hurt you, and deadbeating doesn't equal out in a single game like the dice can.

the other big benefit here is that new recruits who turn into deadbeats instantly see their score plummet drastically, rather than slowly biting everyone.


as an aside...
i've noticed a lot of selfishness in the suggestion and discussion threads which seems to be a big part of the problem around here. if a suggestion doesn't affect the types of games one plays, well then f*ck'em is the attitude. if a suggestion improves play for everyone else but the way one plays, then f*ck'em again; no compromise, no suggested solutions, etc... if a suggestion helps the suggestor but nobody else, well then everybody else is an asshole for disagreeing. so sad....
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Re: Point Penalties for players who miss turns

Postby turbotim66 on Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:34 pm

FabledIntegral wrote:dumbbbb.

Deadbeating is encouraged in speed games where people have to leave and no one wants them to suicide. This would promote suiciding even more to get out of a game.


If there was a concede option it would eliminate a lot of deadbeating. the winner would win a lot faster on really lopsided victories, I of course fight to the last army!
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Re: Point Penalties for players who miss turns / deadbeat

Postby drake_259 on Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:39 pm

I like the idea, but it wouldn't work to our best advantage
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Re: Point Penalties for players who miss turns

Postby FabledIntegral on Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:01 pm

ctgottapee wrote:so Fabled doesn't like it because he cares about speed games, in which deadbeating isn't an issue and in some cases is proper play

simple solution, no deadbeating penalties in single player speed games, problem solved; that wasn't hard and i didn't have to resort to ridicule.

however Fabled you are drastically wrong on the consequences of missed turns and deadbeating in other games, especially team games. it is pretty much a nuclear bomb in team games. note the point penalty is only a means to encourage people to play and not actually compensate fairly; this suggestion isn't about points, but about the QUALITY of play. deadbeaters destroy the quality of play, whether they help you or hurt you, and deadbeating doesn't equal out in a single game like the dice can.

the other big benefit here is that new recruits who turn into deadbeats instantly see their score plummet drastically, rather than slowly biting everyone.


as an aside...
i've noticed a lot of selfishness in the suggestion and discussion threads which seems to be a big part of the problem around here. if a suggestion doesn't affect the types of games one plays, well then f*ck'em is the attitude. if a suggestion improves play for everyone else but the way one plays, then f*ck'em again; no compromise, no suggested solutions, etc... if a suggestion helps the suggestor but nobody else, well then everybody else is an asshole for disagreeing. so sad....


It also affects stalemates - for people such as freemiums who would sooner suicide and be eliminated than stay in the game. You talk about "quality of play," but to try and enforce a penalty on deadbeaters would hardly solve an issue. Think of it - those who frequently deadbeat care f*ck all about their points. Those who deadbeat on the very off occasion are the only ones that are going to feel it - whether they needed to deadbeat because of certain life issues or whatnot... those aren't the ones that should be punished. It's obvious those who do it often don't give a crap ... so in turn we're only hurting those don't even want to deadbeat.
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Re: Point Penalties for players who miss turns / deadbeat

Postby ctgottapee on Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:51 am

i understand that sometimes misssing turns or even deadbeating has to happen, even for good players

BUT that doesn't mean they still shouldn't incur some penatly too. i'm not talking about a public execution or losing a 1000 points here
teammates who get stuck with deadbeats or people missing turns should receive both an incentive to show up and a penalty distributed to their teammates when they don't; i don't care how great a player or how nice you are, when you deadbeat your teammates, your hurt them.

the point penalties are small and an incentive to show up for many now who don't bother to find a babysitter or possibly try to show up because there is really no penalty at all; heck sometimes delayed armies work nicely. for the normal CC'r with occasional life issues, the point penalties balance out really, lose a few and then gain a few from others with same situation. those who strive to make every turn get a nice little bonus, a deserving one.

point penalties do work for serial deadbeaters, as even though they may not care, it drops their rank fast so players can more quickly see they have issue and avoid them. it also gives those points to teammates or other game players to offset a bit of the pain/harm caused which keeps all of our blood pressures a bit lower ;)

and for stalemates, the person who chooses to loose also faces a small extra penalty on top of losing. it is not drastic. in a sense it is a lack of endurance penalty. if the players agree on a winner, then said extra small penalty is no big deal; again the average CC'r will lose a few, and gain a few, so it equals out.

again, there will always be a few exceptions to any rule, but this rule does good things for the multitude of players on the site; i understand that the upper-echelon of players and site runners have vast networks of private games with reliable players, so this may not be an issue.

why not provide a small incentive to make turns?? the only reason to not want this rule enforced is because you like missing turns and/or deadbeating scott free which is not acceptable to the large majority of players.
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Re: Point Penalties for players who miss turns / deadbeat

Postby 3Asefa on Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:13 am

no is bad idea case some times happend something to the person and be sick and go to hospital and the reall life is mor inmportant than games so if ur friend dont see ur pm quick to take ur turns maybe lose some turns and this is bad idea case happent to the person emargency Cases .
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Re: zero out armies for 3 x missed turn dropouts

Postby SixShooter on Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:47 pm

How about the person that misses 3 consecutive turns be penalized 100 points that are either all given to the eventual winner or evenly distributed among all other players in that game.
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Penalize 3x turn missers 50-100 points

Postby SixShooter on Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:54 pm

Why can't players that miss 3 consecutive turns be penalized 50-100 points? The points could all be awarded to the eventual winner or could be evenly distributed among the other players. This would probably discourage "quitting" as you would lose more points by quitting on the game rather than playing it out.

Thoughts? I am still pretty new here so let me have it lol.
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Re: zero out armies for 3 x missed turn dropouts

Postby crazycoders on Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:58 pm

SixShooter, please do not hijack posts :) You already created a topic on that.
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Re: Penalize 3x turn missers 50-100 points

Postby crazycoders on Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:59 pm

Not agreed. For a new player (Which are 95% of the deadbeaters), points are irrelevant. Thus, it would not encourage presence at all.
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Re: Penalize 3x turn missers 50-100 points

Postby guy28 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:01 pm

That makes sense, (incredibly helpful in a 2 person game). But it would pretty much mean whoever faces noobs the most shots up in the standings, which is not fair to us freemiums, I think the rule shoud only apply to people with 50+ games WON (so it doesn't help people trying to lose points).


And it should be 10 points for each person in the game.
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Re: zero out armies for 3 x missed turn dropouts

Postby guy28 on Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:04 pm

crazycoders wrote:SixShooter, please do not hijack posts :) You already created a topic on that.



Actualy I think he did this first, then made a topic.
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Re: Penalize 3x turn missers 50-100 points

Postby lancehoch on Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:26 pm

I believe he is saying that the points just go *poof* and disappear into the etherworld not that they go to the opponent.

EDIT: Moved posts from another thread into this one.
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Re: zero out armies for 3 x missed turn dropouts

Postby SixShooter on Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:30 pm

crazycoders wrote:SixShooter, please do not hijack posts :) You already created a topic on that.


You act like I know what I am doing lol
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Re: zero out armies for 3 x missed turn dropouts

Postby SixShooter on Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:32 pm

crazycoders wrote:SixShooter, please do not hijack posts :) You already created a topic on that.


Plus, this would be different than zeroing out armies for deadbeaters i think.
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Re: Penalize 3x turn missers 50-100 points

Postby tubaman on Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:13 am

This would encourage multis...
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Re: Penalize 3x turn missers 50-100 points

Postby GrimReaper. on Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:15 am

this would inspire multis
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Re: Penalize 3x turn missers 50-100 points

Postby FabledIntegral on Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:10 am

Deadbeating is the best way to go out in a game that you don't want to participate in if it has gone stale or something. Do NOT implement this. It is used very frequently as a method to get out of speed games instead of suicide. All this does is promote people suiciding in games. There's already a "turns missed" feature in your profile. If you genuinely feel that strongly against people who miss turns, look at profiles before joining games.
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Re: Penalize 3x turn missers 50-100 points

Postby NatNat on Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:37 am

yeah also if a guy goes out on hoilday while a game is playinh and can't take his go that is unfair how the player loses 50-100 points when he usally takes his turn
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Re: Penalize 3x turn missers 50-100 points

Postby Jeff Hardy on Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:22 pm

its a terrible idea
if anything then cc should make it the other way around
no points from deadbeats
or perhaps only no points from noob deadbeats

EDIT: now ive got it... deadbeats lose points but nobody gains them
Last edited by Jeff Hardy on Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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