General Fog of War Poll

[jpcloet]

The past poll in the CLA was split very much, looking for the general public's opinion.

[Bones2484]

I voted for "Other". I only follow this rule if my opponent asks for it. Otherwise, I assume it's part of the risk of playing a fog game.

In saying this, I would not be opposed to a "site snapshot" of fog games.

[danryan]

I like the site solution best. In theory, the fog rule is nice, but implementation is a pain in the rear, because some players only log in once per day, at around the same time. Hence if they join at 2 pm one day, starting the game, waiting 12 the minimum hours means they have to get on the next day a little earlier than usual to be able to take the turn. Simply not feasible for some people.

Personally I'd just as soon do without it as it's one more administrative thing to deal with in clan wars.

[stahrgazer]

I voted for "Other". I only follow this rule if my opponent asks for it. Otherwise, I assume it's part of the risk of playing a fog game.

In saying this, I would not be opposed to a "site snapshot" of fog games.

Ditto.

While in the recent conflagration, LoW asked whether the rule would or wouldn't apply, we were not pushy about it at all, we simply asked, and it was agreed to. My personal preference would have been neither clan ask for it.

But, a site snapshot would eliminate the need to even ask, and eliminate the reasonable concern that a 12-hour limit might hinder whoever goes first from taking their turn, because it is very dependent on when the last person joined the game.

Further, a site snapshot would eliminate the confusion about "which games should it or shouldn't it apply to?"

[Dako]

I like the site solution best. In theory, the fog rule is nice, but implementation is a pain in the rear, because some players only log in once per day, at around the same time. Hence if they join at 2 pm one day, starting the game, waiting 12 the minimum hours means they have to get on the next day a little earlier than usual to be able to take the turn. Simply not feasible for some people.

Personally I'd just as soon do without it as it's one more administrative thing to deal with in clan wars.

You can always time your game join and make it so you will play it in the next 24h. I am sure anyone logging once a day can have a margin of 30mins. Or ask a teammate to join last when it is half-time for you. Or enter CC before the job and click on button to join the game. I mean, seriously, it can be easily arranged.

[Dako]

By the way, it is impossible to make an auto-snapshot by the site as BOB is not the part of the site and not every user has this plugin. The only way site can adjust it is to make 12h zero round when no one can play the game (like in manual). So I suggest you edit the poll options here.

[jpcloet]

By the way, it is impossible to make an auto-snapshot by the site as BOB is not the part of the site and not every user has this plugin. The only way site can adjust it is to make 12h zero round when no one can play the game (like in manual). So I suggest you edit the poll options here.

I'd rather not get into the technical aspects, there are several ways to do this without having to use current scripts etc. but integration would be better.

[eddie2]

i do not really see a problem with it but it should be classed more along the lines of a gentlemans/ or womans agreement. not enforced as a rule. a bit similar to truces in games.

[Namor]

I selected "I like the rule and use it".

I would have chosen "Would rather have a site solution of an initial snapshot on fog games at the start", except I'm not sure it makes it clear that I favour the rule.

[TheMissionary]

I voted option 1. The whole point of fog of war is so that your opponents can't see the entire board.

[shocked439]

By the way, it is impossible to make an auto-snapshot by the site as BOB is not the part of the site and not every user has this plugin. The only way site can adjust it is to make 12h zero round when no one can play the game (like in manual). So I suggest you edit the poll options here.

I call bullshit on the impossible, I'll accept impropable or unlikely but not impossible.
You could add the snap shot to game initialization code. It doesn't have to be bob compatible but it could be done. Doesn't mean the admins or blue team will do it bit to claim its impossible seems false. if you don't want to add a snap shot capture at the beginning you could create a start turn button just like in manual but all the button would do is acknowledge you saw the map.

Having said that I still feel the 12 hour "rule" is ridiculous the site is made for the casual gamer so your going to prevent them from taking their turn for 12 hours? Absurd if you're that paranoid don't play foggy games.

[Chariot of Fire]

I selected "I like the rule and use it".

I would have chosen "Would rather have a site solution of an initial snapshot on fog games at the start", except I'm not sure it makes it clear that I favour the rule.

Ditto.

There are maybe just a few too many choices on this poll (I'd like to have checked a few boxes).

Dako's solution makes the most sense. Any game created in fog starts in the same way a manual game does (i.e. 24 hours before Round 1 starts). I'm sure it would be easy to implement.

[MichelSableheart]

It is useful to be able to see the initial deployments, so I see benefits of the 12 hour wait, and voted that I use it. However, there are serious problems with the rule as well. The difficulty for those who log in only once a day, the potential problems for less established clans to get all their members to follow it, and the amount of time consumed spring to mind. This is something that clans need to be aware of when deciding on the rule.

A sitewide solution is probably not relevant enough and too difficult to implement well to be considered. Such a change would probably have people asking to change the log such that all info that could be gained by being online at the right time to be displayed.

[Leehar]

I like the site solution best. In theory, the fog rule is nice, but implementation is a pain in the rear, because some players only log in once per day, at around the same time. Hence if they join at 2 pm one day, starting the game, waiting 12 the minimum hours means they have to get on the next day a little earlier than usual to be able to take the turn. Simply not feasible for some people.

Personally I'd just as soon do without it as it's one more administrative thing to deal with in clan wars.

You can always time your game join and make it so you will play it in the next 24h. I am sure anyone logging once a day can have a margin of 30mins. Or ask a teammate to join last when it is half-time for you. Or enter CC before the job and click on button to join the game. I mean, seriously, it can be easily arranged.

I think an extreme but perhaps applicable example is that a game initializes at 11am in the morning. I go to sleep at 10pm, so I have 13 hours left on the timer, but the next morning I leave to varsity early and don't have the time or dedication to switch on the comp. to take a turn. I have lectures non-stop from 8am to my lunch-break at the least, so I'm unable to make the turn and miss. You can work with the numbers obviously, but can you see how it may create difficulty in making a turn? I'm sure there are people who only have a small window of time that they can get online, be it in the evening from 8-10 or just their lunch-break? Obviously there may be opportunities to make it if you're diligent enough, but can you understand the possibility that sometimes it's just impossible to make a turn at a specific time, and it shouldn't always be needful to take that risk?

[Dako]

I like the site solution best. In theory, the fog rule is nice, but implementation is a pain in the rear, because some players only log in once per day, at around the same time. Hence if they join at 2 pm one day, starting the game, waiting 12 the minimum hours means they have to get on the next day a little earlier than usual to be able to take the turn. Simply not feasible for some people.

Personally I'd just as soon do without it as it's one more administrative thing to deal with in clan wars.

You can always time your game join and make it so you will play it in the next 24h. I am sure anyone logging once a day can have a margin of 30mins. Or ask a teammate to join last when it is half-time for you. Or enter CC before the job and click on button to join the game. I mean, seriously, it can be easily arranged.

I think an extreme but perhaps applicable example is that a game initializes at 11am in the morning. I go to sleep at 10pm, so I have 13 hours left on the timer, but the next morning I leave to varsity early and don't have the time or dedication to switch on the comp. to take a turn. I have lectures non-stop from 8am to my lunch-break at the least, so I'm unable to make the turn and miss. You can work with the numbers obviously, but can you see how it may create difficulty in making a turn? I'm sure there are people who only have a small window of time that they can get online, be it in the evening from 8-10 or just their lunch-break? Obviously there may be opportunities to make it if you're diligent enough, but can you understand the possibility that sometimes it's just impossible to make a turn at a specific time, and it shouldn't always be needful to take that risk?

13hours is not 23.42 hours like it happened at some games. Everyone is okay with 13hours because we have real lives. What pisses people as that they join the game and play immediately.

[Qwert]

im for that these be decision made by 2 clan who are in battle.

[Commander62890]

I like the rule, but I would rather have a "site solution."

[greenoaks]

this ceases to be a site for the casual gamer when you have to log in every 12 hours to check the fog in games before the other team plays

[Rodion]

I like the rule, but I would rather have a "site solution."

Seconded.

[Gold Knight]

I selected "I like the rule and use it".

I would have chosen "Would rather have a site solution of an initial snapshot on fog games at the start", except I'm not sure it makes it clear that I favour the rule.

Ditto.

There are maybe just a few too many choices on this poll (I'd like to have checked a few boxes).

Dako's solution makes the most sense. Any game created in fog starts in the same way a manual game does (i.e. 24 hours before Round 1 starts). I'm sure it would be easy to implement.

I proposed an idea very similar to this in a General Discussion thread on fog rules, and many players said they would completely abandon fog or CC in general if this was implemented... But I agree, a manual setup on fog game that would give teams a chance to look without playing makes the most sense to me, though getting the site to implement something like that may not be a plausible short term solution.

I would say as it has always been, it should be up to the clan participating to agree to a fog rule and also decide consequences prior to the challenge. There are always going to be clans that use this and those who dont, so it should remain part of the negotiations to keep the challenges somewhat unique.

[Commander9]

I like the site solution best. In theory, the fog rule is nice, but implementation is a pain in the rear, because some players only log in once per day, at around the same time. Hence if they join at 2 pm one day, starting the game, waiting 12 the minimum hours means they have to get on the next day a little earlier than usual to be able to take the turn. Simply not feasible for some people.

Personally I'd just as soon do without it as it's one more administrative thing to deal with in clan wars.

The bolded parts. If it can be implemented to the site - awesome. If not - I won't cry the whole year over the loss of it.

[eddie2]

how would it work in speed games if you were 2 set it up as manual fog game does that mean you would have to wait 2 rounds before the game even starts.

[L M S]

the non-rule rule is lame.

[Master Fenrir]

Currently, the fog rule creates too much potential for drama for my tastes, so I'd rather just play as is. A site fix would take away the drama, though, so I'm all for that.

[Dako]

Ditto. One turn doesn't really change that much.