The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

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The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby Nicky15 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:32 pm

Clan members must be responsible for their own turns. Clan members must take all of their own turns unless they need to be away from the site for a period of time. Or an emergency arises.

Basic Rules

1. The announcing in chat, of the name of the person who has covered a turn will now be mandatory.

2. You may appoint an account sitter If you need to be away from the site. Your sitter can take your turns whenever it is convenient for them, your sitter can add to chat whilst covering your account. You may have more than one sitter if you require it. Your sitter should announce in chat that you are away and give an approximate time frame for your return. If you need an account sitter then you should not take turns yourself.

3. Emergency cover may be given if the person is in danger of missing a turn. A person will be in danger of missing a turn when:

a, There is less than 2 hours on the clock
b, When their turn expires at a time when they are not usually online. For example It is in the middle of the night their time, or if they do not take turns during work hours.


Guidance
Emergency cover is for when you have not directly been asked to sit by the person when there is less than 2 hours on the clock or when their turn expires at a time when they are usually not online.
For example. You may cover all turns that will expire in the middle of the night their time, until they would usually be online in the morning. Or if they do not take turns during work hours, you may cover all turns that would expire before they got home.
This rule will not cover all circumstances. We will look at every issue with common sense. If you have a legitimate reason for breaking the 2 hour rule and you post to say you have done so, you will not get into any trouble. However if you break the two hour rule, or take a turn at less than two hours you must be certain that the person will miss. The person in question must not have been online recently taking their own turns. If you regularly cover turns in an unnecessary time frame, and the person subsequently comes online in that time frame, you will be guilty of account sharing

4. You must not enter clan games if you know in advance that you will not be able to take the vast majority of your turns. If you are going to participate in clan games, it should be you who will actually play in these games.

5. You must not be in another persons account for any reason, other than to cover turns during a prearranged sit, or in an emergency situation. Adding to chat in a game you are not in for example will not be allowed. You must also not give permission for anyone to wander in and out of your account at their will. Take care of your account. What happens with it is your responsibility.


In response to the idea that people will just cheat anyway, the hunters will routinely check IPs, and assist us in checking suspicious activity abusing the account sitting rule.

Punishments

Anyone caught breaking these rules will be subject to penalties as determined at the sole discretion of the CD Team. Penalties may include loss of privileges, loss of medals, forfeiture of games, and any other punishment the CD Team deems appropriate.The CD team will take a common sense approach when ruling on each individual case.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby Nicky15 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:34 pm

I have started a new thread as the other one is so cluttered. We have redefined what "in danger of missing a turn" means. The new rule is long winded but we feel it is much fairer.

There has been some minor rewording to make it clearer, but the rules are in essence the same.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby BADPAT on Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:25 pm

JOB well done CD TEAM. Your efforts are appriciated.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby alt1978 on Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:30 pm

This is a really nice, clear, forward looking piece of work. Excellent job!
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby MTIceman41 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 12:08 am

I like it
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby HOWITZERHAL on Fri Jan 25, 2013 1:11 am

Awesome CD Team.......Ritalin does help to keep focused, eh?..... =D> =D> =D>
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby cookie0117 on Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:48 am

Thanks for clearing up emergency cover, I can carry on as normal now!!
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby dragon dor on Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:59 pm

sound good i think it s clear :-s
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby agentcom on Mon Jan 28, 2013 6:00 pm

Thanks for clearing everything up. I'm sure there will still be those that have problems with these rules, but based on what I've seen in the 30 page discussion about the rules, this seems to be a good compromise on all fronts. Great job CDs.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby greenoaks on Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:21 pm

does this allow you to take turns every night when the person goes to bed?
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby Bones2484 on Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:41 pm

greenoaks wrote:does this allow you to take turns every night when the person goes to bed?


Yep. Pretty much. As long as the turn is less than 2 hours from expiring and:

Nicky15 wrote:The person in question must not have been online recently taking their own turns.


And some more:

For example. You may cover all turns that will expire in the middle of the night their time, until they would usually be online in the morning. Or if they do not take turns during work hours, you may cover all turns that would expire before they got home.


This is exactly why I'm against "Emergency Cover" being allowed at any point. There is absolutely nothing in these rules preventing players from leaving turns for someone else to take while they are either at work or asleep (both examples are, sadly, from the rules as you can see in the above quote). Reading this, all someone has to do to not take their own turns is not be online "recently" and not "subsequently come online".

Isn't this exactly what got a few members of KORT in trouble in the initial Josko case? This clarification actually implies that what Josko/Moonchild/Rodion were doing was perfectly fine: leave turns untaken (that they could have taken) when they go to bed/work because they hadn't received guidance from Josko on what to do yet.

I know people have lives. I know actual emergencies happen (and no, going to work and going to bed is not an emergency - an emergency is an accident, internet going out, family issues, etc). But is it really too much to ask for people to cover their own accounts and if they have issues pop up that they can't spend 30 seconds to hop online and ask someone to cover for them, that those turns are simply missed? Why is that such a problem? Do you people really have such unreliable players in your clans playing important games that they don't take their turns before bed or work knowing they will expire? Maybe those players shouldn't be playing games in wars?

G1 is extremely casual in our playstyle and emergencies are an extremely rare occurrence for us. To be honest, I can only think of one off the top of my head and that was BaldAdonis 3-4 years ago. Every other time we've sat for our clan members has been by request (which we can document). I can't imagine that the high level clans, where games are taken much more seriously, have legit emergencies on a regular basis.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby greenoaks on Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:17 pm

that was my understanding of it too.

it does seem these rules are a step backwards as they now legitimise activity that was previously punished.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby Nicky15 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:53 am

greenoaks wrote:does this allow you to take turns every night when the person goes to bed?


Of course it doesn't, Do we really need to add more rules ?

Emergency sitting is for emergencies, no one can pretend they have an emergency every night surely ?

And to follow that up

Clan members must be responsible for their own turns. Clan members must take all of their own turns unless they need to be away from the site for a period of time. Or an emergency arises.


You must not enter clan games if you know in advance that you will not be able to take the vast majority of your turns. If you are going to participate in clan games, it should be you who will actually play in these games.


If someone is taking their turns during the day and regularly getting someone else to cover turns that expire at night, then they will have been capable of taking those turns themselves. This will be account sharing and the people doing this will have broken site rules.

Do i really need to put this in black and white. This will happen so rarely, and I would like to think we can credit our clan members with some intelligence. Surely everyone can understand that an emergency does not happen every day.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby Qwert on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:02 am

Nicky you are going to start dreams rules when you go to sleep LOL
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby Nicky15 on Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:35 am

qwert wrote:Nicky you are going to start dreams rules when you go to sleep LOL


I do hope not, but at this rate it is a possibility :D

Nicky15 wrote:
greenoaks wrote:does this allow you to take turns every night when the person goes to bed?


Of course it doesn't, Do we really need to add more rules ?

Emergency sitting is for emergencies, no one can pretend they have an emergency every night surely ?

And to follow that up

Clan members must be responsible for their own turns. Clan members must take all of their own turns unless they need to be away from the site for a period of time. Or an emergency arises.


You must not enter clan games if you know in advance that you will not be able to take the vast majority of your turns. If you are going to participate in clan games, it should be you who will actually play in these games.


If someone is taking their turns during the day and regularly getting someone else to cover turns that expire at night, then they will have been capable of taking those turns themselves. This will be account sharing and the people doing this will have broken site rules.

Do i really need to put this in black and white. This will happen so rarely, and I would like to think we can credit our clan members with some intelligence. Surely everyone can understand that an emergency does not happen every day.


Also to add to this

2. You may appoint an account sitter If you need to be away from the site. Your sitter can take your turns whenever it is convenient for them, your sitter can add to chat whilst covering your account. You may have more than one sitter if you require it. Your sitter should announce in chat that you are away and give an approximate time frame for your return. If you need an account sitter then you should not take turns yourself.


If someone is covering someones turns on a regular basis, then it will be deemed that the are in a need of an account sitter, and should not be taking turns themselves.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:51 pm

What are the non-Clan sitting rules? Are they the same?
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby Bruceswar on Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:51 am

They have not changed since day one on CC. Maybe some slight amendments since day but they have not changed.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby greenoaks on Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:17 am

3. Emergency cover may be given if the person is in danger of missing a turn. A person will be in danger of missing a turn when:

a, There is less than 2 hours on the clock
b, When their turn expires at a time when they are not usually online. For example It is in the middle of the night their time, or if they do not take turns during work hours.

it is right there in your rules. going to sleep is not an emergency, it happens every night. yet somehow you consider sleeping an unexpected event that requires emergency cover.

Emergency cover should be for
a, There is less than 2 hours on the clock
b, When their turn expires at a time when they are not usually online.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby jetsetwilly on Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:33 am

greenoaks wrote:
3. Emergency cover may be given if the person is in danger of missing a turn. A person will be in danger of missing a turn when:

a, There is less than 2 hours on the clock
b, When their turn expires at a time when they are not usually online. For example It is in the middle of the night their time, or if they do not take turns during work hours.

it is right there in your rules. going to sleep is not an emergency, it happens every night. yet somehow you consider sleeping an unexpected event that requires emergency cover.

Emergency cover should be for
a, There is less than 2 hours on the clock
b, When their turn expires at a time when they are not usually online.


I think there's a little more to it. If a player takes turns in other games and then heads off to bed leaving some that would expire which someone else picks up that is clearly not acceptable and would be dealt with. (It is referenced in the rules).
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby greenoaks on Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:42 am

jetsetwilly wrote:
greenoaks wrote:
3. Emergency cover may be given if the person is in danger of missing a turn. A person will be in danger of missing a turn when:

a, There is less than 2 hours on the clock
b, When their turn expires at a time when they are not usually online. For example It is in the middle of the night their time, or if they do not take turns during work hours.

it is right there in your rules. going to sleep is not an emergency, it happens every night. yet somehow you consider sleeping an unexpected event that requires emergency cover.

Emergency cover should be for
a, There is less than 2 hours on the clock
b, When their turn expires at a time when they are not usually online.


I think there's a little more to it. If a player takes turns in other games and then heads off to bed leaving some that would expire which someone else picks up that is clearly not acceptable and would be dealt with. (It is referenced in the rules).

no its not, the rules state the opposite. the rules even go so far as using 'taking some one's turn while they sleep' as a legitimate emergency.

if i go to bed at 10pm, a clan mate can log on at 4am my time, see i am down to 2 hours and then take my turns because that is now an 'emergency'. i have not been on recently as it has been 6 hours since i was on & i am not usually on at that time.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby agentcom on Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:07 pm

I think the implication is that you can assume an "emergency" happened because the player is not online now and probably won't be online again until the turn expires. During the course of the day, it makes sense to have the 2-hour rule because the player could come back on at any time. But if it gets to be the middle of the night, it's not likely that they are returning that day. Therefore, something probably happened that will prevent them from taking their turns. Therefore it is okay to sit.

It's not that someone can just go to bed and assume their teammates will take their turns. If that happened regularly (and probably not even very often), I assume they would be in violation of these rules. You are right that "taking some one's turns while they sleep" is not a good reason in most circumstances. But the rules do not say this. They say "the middle of the night." Not because they assume people just fall asleep without taking their turns, but because if it gets to be the middle of the night and turns are coming due, it's not likely those people will be on.

The same thing could be said about the other example provided: "during work hours." While work happens almost every day and can't be classified as an emergency, if a reliable player hasn't taken his turns, and you can now assume that they are at work (or else unable to take turns), then you can take those turns.

You guys are focusing on the wrong part of this. Those daily events are not what allow you to take the turn. What allows you to sit is that you can infer that something happened prior to those daily events that caused them to not take the turns and now puts them at risk of missing.
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby Leehar on Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:17 pm

agentcom wrote:You guys are focusing on the wrong part of this. Those daily events are not what allow you to take the turn. What allows you to sit is that you can infer that something happened prior to those daily events that caused them to not take the turns and now puts them at risk of missing.

Well said

We're working on an addendum to the rules that will hopefully more accurately convey that
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby jghost7 on Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:06 pm

Leehar wrote:
agentcom wrote:You guys are focusing on the wrong part of this. Those daily events are not what allow you to take the turn. What allows you to sit is that you can infer that something happened prior to those daily events that caused them to not take the turns and now puts them at risk of missing.

Well said

We're working on an addendum to the rules that will hopefully more accurately convey that


Where are you working on this addendum? Since it is not in the CDF thread, then it is being done privately in perhaps a cd forum? Why is it so top secret? I am just curious.

Thanks,

J
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby Qwert on Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:08 pm

infinity upgrades ,,lol
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Re: The Official Clan Sitting Rules (Revised Edition)

Postby Leehar on Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:16 pm

jghost7 wrote:
Leehar wrote:
agentcom wrote:You guys are focusing on the wrong part of this. Those daily events are not what allow you to take the turn. What allows you to sit is that you can infer that something happened prior to those daily events that caused them to not take the turns and now puts them at risk of missing.

Well said

We're working on an addendum to the rules that will hopefully more accurately convey that


Where are you working on this addendum? Since it is not in the CDF thread, then it is being done privately in perhaps a cd forum? Why is it so top secret? I am just curious.

Thanks,

J

Since I imagine it'd need to be more of a question of semantics than any change in the underlying rules, I doubt CD&F would help much with an issue of wording?
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