[CC 2010 Semis] TOFU vs KoRT [20-40 of 60]

[chipv]

josko please don't post, I'm begging you

[trapyoung]

careful now, insistence on adherence to The Rules could backfire unpleasantly

Oh my, do pray tell

[Chuuuuck]

I regret to inform you all and I am deeply sorry for all involved in this match that it is going to have to end this way, but it appears TOFU has violated the 20 game limit per player. Chariot of Fire is in 21 games, as listed here:

1 Game 7511928
2 Game 7512090
3 Game 7495696
4 Game 7510143
5 Game 7505239
6 Game 7625902
7 Game 7625912
8 Game 7625914
9 Game 7592350 Game 7592352 Game 7592354 Game 7592355 Game 7592356 5 count as 1 (1vs1 games
10 Game 7592407
11 Game 7592367
12 Game 7592383
13 Game 7592386
14 Game 7878916
15 Game 7878931
16 Game 7878932
17 Game 7878934
18 Game 7878935
19 Game 7856673
20 Game 7856683
21 Game 7856691

If (any clan is) found in violation, that clan will forfeit EVERY game that player has played in that clan challenge for the tournament.

As per the rules of the cup. TOFU will forfeit all 21 games listed above as far as the Conqueror's Cup is concerned. According to my count, this makes the official score of this challenge currently 12-36 in KoRT's favor with 12 games outstanding. KoRT will advance to the finals where they will face off with THOTA.

[ljex]

I regret to inform you all and I am deeply sorry for all involved in this match that it is going to have to end this way, but it appears TOFU has violated the 20 game limit per player. Chariot of Fire is in 21 games, as listed here:

1 Game 7511928
2 Game 7512090
3 Game 7495696
4 Game 7510143
5 Game 7505239
6 Game 7625902
7 Game 7625912
8 Game 7625914
9 Game 7592350 Game 7592352 Game 7592354 Game 7592355 Game 7592356 5 count as 1 (1vs1 games
10 Game 7592407
11 Game 7592367
12 Game 7592383
13 Game 7592386
14 Game 7878916
15 Game 7878931
16 Game 7878932
17 Game 7878934
18 Game 7878935
19 Game 7856673
20 Game 7856683
21 Game 7856691

If (any clan is) found in violation, that clan will forfeit EVERY game that player has played in that clan challenge for the tournament.

As per the rules of the cup. TOFU will forfeit all 21 games listed above as far as the Conqueror's Cup is concerned. According to my count, this makes the official score of this challenge currently 12-36 in KoRT's favor with 12 games outstanding. KoRT will advance to the finals where they will face off with THOTA.

KORT should just make them forfeit the last game started instead of all 20, that seems like a hefty punishment for a simple mistake.

[Knight2254]

I regret to inform you all and I am deeply sorry for all involved in this match that it is going to have to end this way, but it appears TOFU has violated the 20 game limit per player. Chariot of Fire is in 21 games, as listed here:

1 Game 7511928
2 Game 7512090
3 Game 7495696
4 Game 7510143
5 Game 7505239
6 Game 7625902
7 Game 7625912
8 Game 7625914
9 Game 7592350 Game 7592352 Game 7592354 Game 7592355 Game 7592356 5 count as 1 (1vs1 games
10 Game 7592407
11 Game 7592367
12 Game 7592383
13 Game 7592386
14 Game 7878916
15 Game 7878931
16 Game 7878932
17 Game 7878934
18 Game 7878935
19 Game 7856673
20 Game 7856683
21 Game 7856691

If (any clan is) found in violation, that clan will forfeit EVERY game that player has played in that clan challenge for the tournament.

As per the rules of the cup. TOFU will forfeit all 21 games listed above as far as the Conqueror's Cup is concerned. According to my count, this makes the official score of this challenge currently 12-36 in KoRT's favor with 12 games outstanding. KoRT will advance to the finals where they will face off with THOTA.

KORT should just make them forfeit the last game started instead of all 20, that seems like a hefty punishment for a simple mistake.

If this is true I would file a formal complaint that the first post in the thread was not kept up-to-date even though we had repeatedly asked for it to be updated. "(Not updated properly)" is what the first post says about usage in games.

I suppose we should have had COF just play through another account as that seems to be the standard work around.

[Incandenza]

KORT should just make them forfeit the last game started instead of all 20, that seems like a hefty punishment for a simple mistake.

100% concur. It'd be shitty for this matchup to end because of a bookkeeping error.

[Chuuuuck]

KORT should just make them forfeit the last game started instead of all 20, that seems like a hefty punishment for a simple mistake.

100% concur. It'd be shitty for this matchup to end because of a bookkeeping error.

I do agree that this is a very bad way to see the matchup end. But I don't want to see this turn around as though KoRT is the bad guy here. This rule was discussed and put in the rules of the tournament long before any matches ever started. TOFU, as well as Chariot of Fire, was aware of the rule and the punishment. Ultimate responsibility to follow the rule falls back to TOFU.

[Master Fenrir]

What if Josko sits the remainder of one of the active games for CoF? Will it still count as a violation?

[Foxglove]

KORT should just make them forfeit the last game started instead of all 20, that seems like a hefty punishment for a simple mistake.

100% concur. It'd be shitty for this matchup to end because of a bookkeeping error.

I do agree that this is a very bad way to see the matchup end. But I don't want to see this turn around as though KoRT is the bad guy here. This rule was discussed and put in the rules of the tournament long before any matches ever started. TOFU, as well as Chariot of Fire, was aware of the rule and the punishment. Ultimate responsibility to follow the rule falls back to TOFU.

Thank you, Chuuuuuck!!

There's been a lot of effort and eagerness in the past few days to adhere (correctly so!) to a variety of rules within this challenge.

For example (in the interest of providing a little backstory for the interested viewers of this thread), members of TOFU recently requested a private investigation of josko.ri for account sitting abuse in response to a joke played by KORT in some of our Batch 3 games. This joke consisted of clan members using a script to put "josko.ri for <insert player here>" in game chat to have a little fun after members of TOFU complained about josko sitting for some of our clan members (the history of which can be found in this thread). Admittedly, this was a joke in poor taste, and we regret any possible trouble that it has caused. We are of course complying with requests for additional information to aid the multi-hunters in doing their much appreciated job for CC.

So in the same spirit of rule adherence, we decided to notify Chuuuuuck of the TOFU violation of rules clearly presented within the first post of the Conqueror's Cup thread.

I do believe that the next rule we should all embrace is The Golden Rule. (If anyone is interested, I can find a fable to illustrate the description and application of said rule.)

[Chariot of Fire]

The fault lies entirely with me, having confused one game that I did play (USApocalypse) with a game of similar historical note (Arms Race) which I know I didn't play, and thus I exceeded my quota. Whilst it is a pity the OP was never updated (I knew we should have done the darn thing), I can only take full responsibility as the mistake lay with me and my own miscalculation.

Whilst the rule is somewhat Draconian to have to forfeit all games (the CL adopts an 'any in excess are forfeit' policy) it is nevertheless in black and white and it is KORT's prerogative to apply that ruling.

I can ask members of KORT to search their conscience or, simply, I call it a day...cap in hand...and thank one and all for what has been a most entertaining, eventful and challenging series of games. My apologies of course to all those members of TOFU who have played so well yet seemingly all in vain.

It was quite a fireworks display for what has, ultimately, been a washed-out event.

Sorry folks.

[Ace Rimmer]

There's been a lot of effort and eagerness in the past few days to adhere (correctly so!) to a variety of rules within this challenge.

For example (in the interest of providing a little backstory for the interested viewers of this thread), members of TOFU recently requested a private investigation of josko.ri for account sitting abuse in response to a joke played by KORT in some of our Batch 3 games. This joke consisted of clan members using a script to put "josko.ri for <insert player here>" in game chat to have a little fun after members of TOFU complained about josko sitting for some of our clan members (the history of which can be found in this thread). Admittedly, this was a joke in poor taste, and we regret any possible trouble that it has caused. We are of course complying with requests for additional information to aid the multi-hunters in doing their much appreciated job for CC.

So in the same spirit of rule adherence, we decided to notify Chuuuuuck of the TOFU violation of rules clearly presented within the first post of the Conqueror's Cup thread.

So if we wouldn't have brought up a potential violation of one of CC's major rules you would have overlooked the mistake made by CoF in joining 21 games? Note that I only noticed the potential abuse because of so many games with josko, not because I have a vendetta against KORT. I have a commitment on my part as a member of TeamCC to uphold the rules of the site, regardless of who is involved.

Jake

[nikola_milicki]

holy shit! u cant be serious about this rule.. its ridiculous and illogical.. cof broke the rule when he joined 21st game so punish him for that.. couldve happened to anyone, we're all just human.. imo even if he joined on purpose, giving all 21 games to kort is just dumb..

edit: when can we expect the results of josko investigation?

[chemefreak]

OMG Kudos to Chuuuuck for sticking to the rules on this one. I think everyone hates to see this challenge end this way, but a rule is a rule. Damn shame. Good luck to KoRT against THOTA.

[Incandenza]

OMG Kudos to Chuuuuck for sticking to the rules on this one. I think everyone hates to see this challenge end this way, but a rule is a rule. Damn shame. Good luck to KoRT against THOTA.

It's a preposterous rule, and it's pretty well buried in the fine print. I'd really like to see some fair play from Kort on this one, especially since it seems like they instigated the whole thing with a "joke" that was in pretty poor taste given the circumstances.

[TheBro]

OMG Kudos to Chuuuuck for sticking to the rules on this one. I think everyone hates to see this challenge end this way, but a rule is a rule. Damn shame. Good luck to KoRT against THOTA.

[ljex]

OMG Kudos to Chuuuuck for sticking to the rules on this one. I think everyone hates to see this challenge end this way, but a rule is a rule. Damn shame. Good luck to KoRT against THOTA.

Kort could decide to adhere to a different rule and only make TOFU forfeit say the last game COF joined. To me this would be the fair way of doing things but it appears Kort is willing to take what many will view as a tainted victory.

[Incandenza]

Kort could decide to adhere to a different rule and only make TOFU forfeit say the last game COF joined. To me this would be the fair way of doing things but it appears Kort is willing to take what many will view as a tainted victory.

Replace "many" with "everyone" and you've struck at the heart of it.

[danryan]

OMG Kudos to Chuuuuck for sticking to the rules on this one. I think everyone hates to see this challenge end this way, but a rule is a rule. Damn shame. Good luck to KoRT against THOTA.

You can't be serious? All kidding aside, personally I wouldn't want to advance to the final in this manner. Worst case I'd say forfeit the extra game COF joined - that's penalty enough. In any case it's a bummer to have the war end in any way but a fight to the very last game.

[ljex]

Kort could decide to adhere to a different rule and only make TOFU forfeit say the last game COF joined. To me this would be the fair way of doing things but it appears Kort is willing to take what many will view as a tainted victory.

Replace "many" with "everyone" and you've struck at the heart of it.

haha there will be those few players in kort who wont think of it as tainted

[ljex]

Kort could decide to adhere to a different rule and only make TOFU forfeit say the last game COF joined. To me this would be the fair way of doing things but it appears Kort is willing to take what many will view as a tainted victory.

Replace "many" with "everyone" and you've struck at the heart of it.

haha there will be those few players in kort who wont think of it as tainted

[Incandenza]

I would imagine that there are even those in Kort that wouldn't want to advance this way.

[Chuuuuck]

It's a preposterous rule, and it's pretty well buried in the fine print. I'd really like to see some fair play from Kort on this one, especially since it seems like they instigated the whole thing with a "joke" that was in pretty poor taste given the circumstances.

CoF was well aware of the rule. If you go back to posts in the Conqueror's Cup thread on February 2nd he even asked directly what happens if a clan violates that rule. I answered him and pointed out that it was updated in the OP.

There was much discussion before the Cup ever started on rules and everything else. This is one of the rules discussed and no one argued it. So we proceeded with this rule.

The thought process on making the harsh punishment was that clan wars should be a reflection on the combined efforts of the clan and should not be led in a large amount of games by individual players.

Regardless of where I stand, or anyone else stands, in the argument now. The bottom line is this rule was discussed and posted for everyone to see before the tournament ever started and the tournament began with this rule in effect. I can not change it in hindsight of a violation. The only fair way for me, personally, to proceed is to follow the rules that were outlined before the violation occurred.

[elfish_lad]

Ouch.

I know that this is entirely unnecessary but I’m going to do it anyway. I just want to go on record as saying publicly that I’m proud to have CoF as our clan leader. Not only is he thorough, diligent and committed, he’s just a great guy to have as a leader. I’ve learned tones from him in the months I’ve been in the clan and I’m sure I’ll learn more in the months to come.

It’s a shame it has come to this. But such is life. Mistakes are made. I stand with my leader and my clan, rise or fall.

If it goes the way it looks to be going, good luck to KorT and THOTA and we’ll see ya in the pit in weeks to come.

Elf

[TheBro]

There are rules, and then there is judgment. Judgment: In hindsight, that is a stupid rule. Good luck KORT, prove you guys deserve to be there.

[Incandenza]

CoF was well aware of the rule. If you go back to posts in the Conqueror's Cup thread on February 2nd he even asked directly what happens if a clan violates that rule. I answered him and pointed out that it was updated in the OP.

There was much discussion before the Cup ever started on rules and everything else. This is one of the rules discussed and no one argued it. So we proceeded with this rule.

Still seems a bit odd that a map use violation results in a game forfeit, whereas a player violation results in essentially a challenge forfeit.

However, I suppose it does come down now to Kort. I would certainly encourage them to play out the challenge with the single game forfeit, if for no other reason than that this pretty damn anticipated challenge doesn't go down with an asterisk next to it.