[CC4] RA (29) vs ATL (32) - Final 11/15

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[CC4] RA (29) vs ATL (32) - Final 11/15

Postby VioIet on Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:52 am

Round 16 of "Conquer Cup 4" - Risk Attackers vs Atlantis

show: details


show: RA Round 1 Home Games


show: ATL Round 1 Home Games


show: RA Round 2 Home Games


show: ATL Round 2 Home Games


show: RA Round 3 Home Games


show: ATL Round 3 Home Games


Tie-Breaker
Forfeited - Win to ATL

show: RA Player Usage


show: ATL Player Usage
Last edited by VioIet on Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:48 am, edited 62 times in total.
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby BoganGod on Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:58 am

Good Luck RA.

Sorry to nitpick, would love some clarification of a few minor details.
Would it be possible to clearly state in the details pulldown

- Dates for exchange of 2nd and 3rd sets
- Game break down - How many of each per clan per set.
- Your forfeited game will that be a dbs, trips, or quads game?
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby VioIet on Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:19 am

Sure. But does that mean you, Bogan, are now the contact for this war, as no one from Atlantis replied to my pm to discuss the details?

I believe it is a 2 week time frame between the exchange of each Batch. I believe the second one was to be sent out September 11th.

I already have in the pull-down menu, how the games will be divided.

And let me get back to you on the forfeit. I was just thinking that Atlantis get's an extra point. But if I have to actually decide a game, then let's wait til after Batch 1. I will likely choose a quads game.
Last edited by VioIet on Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby Arama86n on Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:20 am

Violet has always struck me a lovely person, and I'm happy things are going well for RA, but in this match-up there can be no doubt as to where my loyalties lie :)
Come on Atlantis, it's time to follow your own words and rise straight up to the quarter final. =D>
There are one or two of my acquaintances that do not believe it's a sure thing we'll be facing you on the next round, but they didn't doubt enough to put $300 behind that opinion, and that is the strength of my faith in you.
Genoke, I want to see a margin of 5 games.

Good luck RA! =D>
Go Atlantis :!: =D>
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby BoganGod on Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:54 am

VioIet wrote:Sure. But does that mean you, Bogan, are now the contact for this war, as no one from Atlantis replied to my pm to discuss the details?

I believe it is a 2 week time frame between the exchange of each Batch. I believe the second one was to be sent out September 11th.

I already have in the pull-down menu, how the games will be divided.

And let me get back to you on the forfeit. I was just thinking that Atlantis get's an extra point. But if I have to actually decide a game, then let's wait til after Batch 1. I will likely choose a quads game.


I think you might have a malfunction with your pm box. Genoke bcc'ed me into his reply to you about the details. Am happy to be the contact. Though am sure Genoke will continue on as contact. As you might be aware, is middle of the day over there in the land of beer and mussels. Genoke is probably spending family time. He always replies to pm's that he receives. More reliable than an atomic clock, say what you like about him but being lax in communication is not one of his shortcomings.

When you think about it, Atlantis just getting an extra point on top of the normal available points would not be a forfeit as such. That would make the clan war out of 62points....... As you can imagine that could potentially cause issues. Get back to me or Genoke(preferably Genoke until he says otherwise) on this, maybe copy in chemefreak to avoid any confusion or double handling. We are eager to get this up and running, don't want to be in a situation again where other clans are waiting for us.

You don't have in the pull down menu HOW THE GAMES WILL BE DIVIDED INTO SETS. Specifics - Set one will consist of .......
Set two will consist of ........ Set three will consist of .......... The tie break will be created and played in the advent of/or in set number...... You've listed the amount of each game setting, but now how they are divided into sets. Little detail, but to avoid the whole, "Oh I thought we were creating 3not4 doubles this set, I'll have the 4th to you in a couple of days" thing.

Would like to minimise the potential for confusion. Spell it out please, as if we have never been in a clan war and are approaching this like noobs. Thank you for stepping up and taking responsibility as the leader of the higher ranked clan and creating this thread. Gives me more time to piss of poor Arama86n by posting about his up coming marriage.
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby VioIet on Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:12 am

There is nothing wrong with my inbox. Are you sure that Genoke pm'd me? Try clicking on that name that he sent it to. Is it really the right spelling? I am pretty sure it is anyone else but me. I never received an email from Genoke.

Also, all he had to do was hit reply to the pm that I sent him.

I am sure he is not lax in communication; however, he did overlook my pm. I'm sure it happens to all of us at times. Remember back in NCC4 when we were first setting it up, Genoke pm'd me and never received a reply. It was because I wrote out my reply, but accidentally hit preview instead of send (not the first time I've done that before either.) I never realized what I had done until Genoke said in the thread that I hadn't yet responded to him. I checked and sure enough, it wasn't in my sent box. I felt pretty dumb about that, but oh well. Stuff Happens.


And in the drop down box- I do have how it will be broken up into sets. It's rather simplistic, but it is there.

I will copy/paste here:
show: ATL Round 1 Home Games


show: RA Round 2 Home Games



show: ATL Round 2 Home Games



show: RA Round 3 Home Games



show: ATL Round 3 Home Games



So basically Batch 1 will be:
4 dubs
4 trips
4 quads

Batch 2 & 3
3 dubs
3 trips
3 quads

I'm thinking that the tie-breaker can be sent in the last round.


Yes, the 62 points can create issues in the event of a tie. It will have to resort in other tie-breakers methods. To avoid all that, I understand why I have to choose a game to forfeit.

And you're welcome :)
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby BoganGod on Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:24 am

Thanks so much for taking care of this. Sorry to be such a pain.
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby Doc_Brown on Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:19 am

Just a suggestion: if the forfeit stands, I'd suggest it be applied to the tie-breaker game. Since the alleged offense was against the TO, why not apply the penalty on the one TO-mandated game? That solves the problem with 62 games and no one loses out on any home games.
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby BoganGod on Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:16 am

Doc_Brown wrote:Just a suggestion: if the forfeit stands, I'd suggest it be applied to the tie-breaker game. Since the alleged offense was against the TO, why not apply the penalty on the one TO-mandated game? That solves the problem with 62 games and no one loses out on any home games.


Great suggestion, though I for one would not be happy. Classic is a map that we are very strong on.
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby chemefreak on Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:59 am

The forfeited game will be the tiebreak. So there is no need to play it.

The schedule is as follows (from my August 10, 2013 private message):

RA is the higher ranked clan so VioIet, you will be responsible for starting the thread. Here is your schedule:

Round 1 - August 26, 2013 (Additional day given due to forfeit)
Round 2 - September 8, 2013
Round 3 - September 22, 2013

Atlantis...I need your confirmation you are okay with the game exchanges and that she has written the thread correctly before I issue privs. Thanks.
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby Genoke on Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:35 pm

Atlantis agrees with the terms/rules/dates/batches

edit: with dates agreed from schedule of chemefreak
Last edited by Genoke on Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby chemefreak on Sun Aug 25, 2013 12:40 pm

Genoke wrote:Atlantis agrees with the terms/rules/dates/batches


Thanks. I have edited the OP and will issue privs. Good luck to both clans.
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby Genoke on Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:17 pm

VioIet wrote:There is nothing wrong with my inbox. Are you sure that Genoke pm'd me? Try clicking on that name that he sent it to. Is it really the right spelling? I am pretty sure it is anyone else but me. I never received an email from Genoke.

Also, all he had to do was hit reply to the pm that I sent him.

I am sure he is not lax in communication; however, he did overlook my pm. I'm sure it happens to all of us at times. Remember back in NCC4 when we were first setting it up, Genoke pm'd me and never received a reply. It was because I wrote out my reply, but accidentally hit preview instead of send (not the first time I've done that before either.) I never realized what I had done until Genoke said in the thread that I hadn't yet responded to him. I checked and sure enough, it wasn't in my sent box. I felt pretty dumb about that, but oh well. Stuff Happens.

I confirm that i'll be the primary contact for Atlantis!

The reason you never got my pm is already know by you and chemefreak (actually he's the one who found out). Not sure why you didn't mentioned it here. But it seems that you prefer to pretend you didn't knew anything. :shock:

Your name is spelled VIOIET but i always read it as VIOLET (l little L and I big i)
unfortunately there is a player with the name Violet (has only played 8 games, which i checked out today) otherwise i would've got an error by that name.
maybe if i add you on my friendslist this won't happen again.... :D
sent me a pm with a nice joke and i'll add you! O:)

If I was the host of this thread and i wouldn't had received any reply so close too the deadline...i would've sent another pm: kind of remember. Why didn't you?
You just waited until chemefreak woke up...

I must admit on my part i was a bit leazy for checking everything out for the last week so i pm'd chemefreak and Violet (the wrong you) this friday, because the deadline came very close:
sent it to Voilet and chemefreak:
first batch RA vs ATL

Sent: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:25 am
by Genoke
Hey Violet,

first batch needs to be exchanged in 2 days and still no communication about it. even no war thread... :(

we have to play 3 batches, how about we play each kind of game type in 1 batch, like:
1st batch: dubs
2nd batch: trips + tiebreaker
3rd batch: quads

we keep all the settings as written in CCup4 thread.

i think this is the easiest solution, but maybe you think different?


conclusion: there was an error in communication from me to you (wrong name spelled) and a bit of lack for taking initiative in pm's when deadline came closer.
result: chemefreak stepped in as a referee to keep his schedule on the right track.

ps: (reason for my leaziness: my baby daughter is in a coma as i speak 1 week now) people on my FB can confirm my situation. Nonetheless i keep active in CC, taking my turns, sitting for a few players and trying to get our homegames done.
Looking out for others tasks against a deadline surely wasn't one of my priorities! I hope you understand...
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby Arama86n on Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:26 pm

Genoke wrote:ps: (reason for my leaziness: my baby daughter is in a coma as i speak 1 week now)


:shock: :?
I'm so sorry to hear that mate. My thoughts are with you.
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby Keefie on Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:46 pm

Mate,

How you are still managing to do anything on CC amazes me =D> Real life always comes first and I hope so much that your beautiful baby girl recovers very soon.

My prayers are with you and your family.
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby VioIet on Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:29 pm

That is a beautiful little girl! Genoke, I am very sorry to hear about your baby. I am sure many people on CC will keep you in your thoughts and prayers right now. It is understandable that your priorities lay elsewhere right now, and I think you will find the clan community to be very understanding and supportive of that.

Now to address some of your points:

I did infer to Bogangod that you mispelled my name. Also, you had multiple pm's in your inbox from me over the last two months, so I'm surprised you didn't just hit reply to one of them.

But remember, I did not realize that you had tried to contact me until after the forfeit had already been issued. I actually found out about the forfeit through here first- before checking my inbox. Chemefreak forwarded me that pm yesterday, while I was offline. When I signed back on, I had three pm's from him: one when he forwarded his response to you, one with a warning to me, and one with the forfeit. Everything happened very quickly- within 8 hours. Unfortunately I was working an 8 hour shift.

I figured one pm was enough. All three of us (chemefreak, you, me) knew that this was coming up and I think all three share some blame in the lapse of communication.

The reason I didn't try to contact you again:

I actually thought it was a bit funny, that after the whole NCC4 drama, and you and your clan complaining about me being uncommunicative, that no one contacted me or replied to me. I didn't push the response as I was enjoying the irony.

I figured that you didn't reply to me purposely because of the issue in NCC4, and some of the bad feelings that arose over that. I knew that's why you were unwilling to negotiate.

Likewise, I wasn't wanting to pm you over and over again. I did not want to communicate with Atlantis any more than necessary.

Remember, this happened August 11th, the day after I was forced to start the games in a 4 hour time span, or have three forfeits, so feelings were not good or amiable.

Also by nature, I am just not one to get over-excited or concerned or anything like that over a lack of a pm. I tend to just let things go and not worry about much. I'm very easy-going in that regard and my lax attitude can actually piss some people off (the ones who do care, that is). Oh well.

Hence why you will also hear me say things like "well, I don't care, or it's not a big deal to me, and why worry about that?" I am not the type to be pushy to force someone to pm me. I figure, it they want to, they will, and if they don't, then they won't. That is just my personality and there is no changing that. At the same time, I am willing to do what I need to in order to get this war up and running successfully from this point forward.

We have privileges so RA will try to put our games up as soon as possible. Chemefreak is giving us until tomorrow (August 26th). However, I am aiming to get our games up today. Chemefreak wanted the war to start on August 25, so will try to ensure that. If so, then there will technically be nothing that RA did wrong and no delay whatsoever to the schedule that chemefreak wanted.


Anyway, I'm sure that you don't want to draw out this issue more than necessary. I am happy to answer anymore questions/comments about it. But if not, we can move on.

Again for the most important issue- you do have RA's support, thoughts and prayers regarding your baby's health.

If you will need some time to get your games situated, no worries, as I am not one to care. I know your little girl needs you right now, so take all the time off that you need. This is just a game and a recreational activity/hobby, so it can wait.

I concur with Keefie, that what you do is amazing. You have a family to take care of; a clan that you lead single-handedly; your games to manage, plus a lot of other real life stuff. You should be applauded for that.
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby HardAttack on Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:43 pm

Genoke wrote:
VioIet wrote:There is nothing wrong with my inbox. Are you sure that Genoke pm'd me? Try clicking on that name that he sent it to. Is it really the right spelling? I am pretty sure it is anyone else but me. I never received an email from Genoke.

Also, all he had to do was hit reply to the pm that I sent him.

I am sure he is not lax in communication; however, he did overlook my pm. I'm sure it happens to all of us at times. Remember back in NCC4 when we were first setting it up, Genoke pm'd me and never received a reply. It was because I wrote out my reply, but accidentally hit preview instead of send (not the first time I've done that before either.) I never realized what I had done until Genoke said in the thread that I hadn't yet responded to him. I checked and sure enough, it wasn't in my sent box. I felt pretty dumb about that, but oh well. Stuff Happens.

I confirm that i'll be the primary contact for Atlantis!

The reason you never got my pm is already know by you and chemefreak (actually he's the one who found out). Not sure why you didn't mentioned it here. But it seems that you prefer to pretend you didn't knew anything. :shock:

Your name is spelled VIOIET but i always read it as VIOLET (l little L and I big i)
unfortunately there is a player with the name Violet (has only played 8 games, which i checked out today) otherwise i would've got an error by that name.
maybe if i add you on my friendslist this won't happen again.... :D
sent me a pm with a nice joke and i'll add you! O:)

If I was the host of this thread and i wouldn't had received any reply so close too the deadline...i would've sent another pm: kind of remember. Why didn't you?
You just waited until chemefreak woke up...

I must admit on my part i was a bit leazy for checking everything out for the last week so i pm'd chemefreak and Violet (the wrong you) this friday, because the deadline came very close:
sent it to Voilet and chemefreak:
first batch RA vs ATL

Sent: Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:25 am
by Genoke
Hey Violet,

first batch needs to be exchanged in 2 days and still no communication about it. even no war thread... :(

we have to play 3 batches, how about we play each kind of game type in 1 batch, like:
1st batch: dubs
2nd batch: trips + tiebreaker
3rd batch: quads

we keep all the settings as written in CCup4 thread.

i think this is the easiest solution, but maybe you think different?


conclusion: there was an error in communication from me to you (wrong name spelled) and a bit of lack for taking initiative in pm's when deadline came closer.
result: chemefreak stepped in as a referee to keep his schedule on the right track.

ps: (reason for my leaziness: my baby daughter is in a coma as i speak 1 week now) people on my FB can confirm my situation. Nonetheless i keep active in CC, taking my turns, sitting for a few players and trying to get our homegames done.
Looking out for others tasks against a deadline surely wasn't one of my priorities! I hope you understand...
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She is so beautiful, she is an angel.
I talked to her 15 days ago genoke and she promised me she will be in our team playing with us 14 years later. (she asked to me not to tell daddy..)
well, my good friend, i am pretty sure babies are strong, she will fight as hell and will recover cos she is your daughter...
all the bests my friend, she will be a very strong, beautiful and smart girl, i am pretty sure about that...
O:)
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby doublediamond on Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:06 am

my thoughts are with you and your family, Genoke.
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby stotzi on Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:30 am

Genoke, she already is a beautiful girl and will be for a very long time! My mother has been midwife for a long time (she's retired now), so if you have questions or do not trust the medics, you can write me and I will ask her about her opinion.

If there's anything else, any of us can do to help you or your family, just tell us! I have a nearly 5 year old daughter, too, so I know how the love for a child is able to change ... everything. When she's healthy again, tell us and I will be happy to drink one or more beers to celebrate with you from Austria, I will organize Janomike and sarrt, too and then we'll send you a photo as proof :)
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby Genoke on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:34 am

VioIet wrote:That is a beautiful little girl! Genoke, I am very sorry to hear about your baby. I am sure many people on CC will keep you in your thoughts and prayers right now. It is understandable that your priorities lay elsewhere right now, and I think you will find the clan community to be very understanding and supportive of that.

Thank you for your kind words!
VioIet wrote:Also, you had multiple pm's in your inbox from me over the last two months, so I'm surprised you didn't just hit reply to one of them.

You're correct we had several communications the last 2 months, but as i am, i'd like to have everything as clean/clear as possible. Meaning: every pm i receive and is dealed with, i remove. I'm not interested in history and i'd like to keep my inbox as low as possible (got only 5 messages now)

VioIet wrote:I figured one pm was enough. All three of us (chemefreak, you, me) knew that this was coming up and I think all three share some blame in the lapse of communication.

I communicated about 2 weeks ago (for the war rules) but with the wrong name it didn't came to you. Also that's the reason chemefreak knew we weren't interested in debating the default rules. 2 days before the deadline i communicated again....and again too the wrong name :sick: (don't worry, i won't forget your name anymore now! :D so i think communication on my part was ok...

VioIet wrote:The reason I didn't try to contact you again:
I actually thought it was a bit funny, that after the whole NCC4 drama, and you and your clan complaining about me being uncommunicative, that no one contacted me or replied to me. I didn't push the response as I was enjoying the irony.
I figured that you didn't reply to me purposely because of the issue in NCC4, and some of the bad feelings that arose over that. I knew that's why you were unwilling to negotiate.
Likewise, I wasn't wanting to pm you over and over again. I did not want to communicate with Atlantis any more than necessary.
Remember, this happened August 11th, the day after I was forced to start the games in a 4 hour time span, or have three forfeits, so feelings were not good or amiable.

I understand all your lines here. Due to our perfect start at NCC4 those things happen. Me too wasn't exciting to boom up your inbox for the next war. And the irony here counts aswell... me too was a bit laughing since the deadline came closer and no further communication was recieved... :mrgreen:

VioIet wrote:Also by nature, I am just not one to get over-excited or concerned or anything like that over a lack of a pm. I tend to just let things go and not worry about much. I'm very easy-going in that regard and my lax attitude can actually piss some people off (the ones who do care, that is). Oh well.

My nature is a bit different. i think at the other side. If i sent a pm, i'd like to recieve an answer in games or in real life. So...when someone pm's me, i always sent an answer, unless no answer was required. it suits a bit the following sentence: you only gain respect, when you respect them. no?

VioIet wrote:We have privileges so RA will try to put our games up as soon as possible. Chemefreak is giving us until tomorrow (August 26th). However, I am aiming to get our games up today. Chemefreak wanted the war to start on August 25, so will try to ensure that. If so, then there will technically be nothing that RA did wrong and no delay whatsoever to the schedule that chemefreak wanted.

yesterday i used most of my time to visit my baby girl, so i'm glad chemefreak gave us till 26 (today), that i didn't made them on 25th, but i'll make them within 1 hour.

VioIet wrote:Again for the most important issue- you do have RA's support, thoughts and prayers regarding your baby's health.
If you will need some time to get your games situated, no worries, as I am not one to care. I know your little girl needs you right now, so take all the time off that you need. This is just a game and a recreational activity/hobby, so it can wait.
I concur with Keefie, that what you do is amazing. You have a family to take care of; a clan that you lead single-handedly; your games to manage, plus a lot of other real life stuff. You should be applauded for that.

Thanks again for your kind words and nice offer, but i made a commitment as leader and i'll stick to that. If i wouldn't be able to handle things, i'll sent a pm to one of our members. and if i wouldn't be online for more then 24hours, they'll know something bad happened to me. :D
games will be made today so chemefreaks schedule is under controle.

a little word on my baby-girl: At the moment i think the worst part is behind us. It's been 3 days now that no fever has arised again and also 3 days has passed without any epileptycal attacks (due to viral infection on her brain). Now her body can fight against the virus and she's doing well. So well that she can breath again without a machine. The doctors are even thinking to remove the breating tube today or tomorrow. When we are with her and play/tease her, her body give more reaction each day. Just a slight move forward, but as long as it's forward i'm happy!
And last but not least: She's even trying to phone home!
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby Genoke on Mon Aug 26, 2013 10:39 am

stotzi wrote:Genoke, she already is a beautiful girl and will be for a very long time! My mother has been midwife for a long time (she's retired now), so if you have questions or do not trust the medics, you can write me and I will ask her about her opinion.

If there's anything else, any of us can do to help you or your family, just tell us! I have a nearly 5 year old daughter, too, so I know how the love for a child is able to change ... everything. When she's healthy again, tell us and I will be happy to drink one or more beers to celebrate with you from Austria, I will organize Janomike and sarrt, too and then we'll send you a photo as proof :)

Thank you for your offer. She's doing great if you ask me, with a little luck she can open her eyes this week (but maybe i'm an optimistic daddy) :D
All 3 of you are from Austria? didn't knew that! Hell yeah, i'll sent you a message when she's back with us, i don't want to take away your extra motivation to celebrate with beer! :idea:
Hopefully the most funny pictures will get to us here on CC! :-$
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby shaneback on Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:07 pm

gl again.
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby Janomike on Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:14 am

All the best for your daughter, my prayers are with her and your family!
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby freakns on Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:10 pm

First things first. I just hope that everything is good with your offspring Genoke. I will leave jokes about Bogan being the mommy of the baby until she is all good and ready to compete at next Olympics.

Second, as i can see, Genoke sent his PM on wrong address, and i saw on CC4 thread that Vio said she sent PM to bothe Genoke and Cheme regarding this war and receive no answer and yet it is RA who is being penalized? WTF?! Boggy, be a man and not a midget for once in your life and play god damn tiebreaking game.

Third, good luck to all? Nah, screw you midget lovers/animal rapists, go RA!!!
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Re: [CC4] RA (0) vs ATL (1)

Postby NoSurvivors on Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:14 am

freakns wrote:Second, as i can see, Genoke sent his PM on wrong address, and i saw on CC4 thread that Vio said she sent PM to bothe Genoke and Cheme regarding this war and receive no answer and yet it is RA who is being penalized? WTF?! Boggy, be a man and not a midget for once in your life and play god damn tiebreaking game.


+1 to all said here... horrible decision made here...
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