[CC3] SEMI FINALS KoRT vs TOFU 29-31 - Final 5/2

[Dako]

My problem is not that sitting, problem is fact that CoF pointed fingers to me that I am doing it for Moon, and then he did worse thing for you. If your advice is not to speak about sitting in public forum, maybe you should tell to CoF that advice before he had posted this post: viewtopic.php?f=441&t=183896&start=90#p4068127
If he can freely throw away his suspects about our abuse in this forum, why should not I also? The accusing game started from his side, and it was normal, but this is not normal?

And thanks for the constructive advice, I will ask your superior about the case.

Please explain how him sitting for me is worse from you sitting for Moon? I am also interested why you qualify him saving that turn as an abuse. Do you maybe imply that I am incapable to play Ardennes without CoF on my own? Or maybe you think that CoF knows Ardennes better than I do?

[josko.ri]

My problem is not that sitting, problem is fact that CoF pointed fingers to me that I am doing it for Moon, and then he did worse thing for you. If your advice is not to speak about sitting in public forum, maybe you should tell to CoF that advice before he had posted this post: viewtopic.php?f=441&t=183896&start=90#p4068127
If he can freely throw away his suspects about our abuse in this forum, why should not I also? The accusing game started from his side, and it was normal, but this is not normal?

And thanks for the constructive advice, I will ask your superior about the case.

Please explain how him sitting for me is worse from you sitting for Moon? I am also interested why you qualify him saving that turn as an abuse. Do you maybe imply that I am incapable to play Ardennes without CoF on my own? Or maybe you think that CoF knows Ardennes better than I do?

Second time I need to repeat the same thing what I have already answered. I did it in last reply to you, I do it here, but next time you ask me something that has already been answered I will just ignore you.

so answer to question "Please explain how him sitting for me is worse from you sitting for Moon? I am also interested why you qualify him saving that turn as an abuse. " has been already answered, here is repeat: "You pointed fingers in my sitting for Moon when he was last online with 23 hours left on timer (my only sitting in this war btw), and then you sit for Dako in Ardennes, and Dako was playing the whole that day turns in other games, commented in this thread twice, 5 and 7 hours before the turn was to expire. In addition, I think he did not have Moderator privileges removed when you sat, which gives me another suspicion that I am not sure of answer, is it allowed to share Moderator's password (excluding absence time) with non-moderator user?"

josko,just a few things pal.u haven't been on CC for a whole 4 years but I have(6+).I can honestly say I have never seen 1 player sit for another(Moon) so many times in that span.i will even go as far to say that u have probably taken more turns for another player(clan games) more than any other in that time frame.is there a way to prove it,i wish there was.u also just said,u don't mind "sitting", well,no kidding.u and I are both fans of the unlimited setting and we both know for a fact that games can be won and lost in the 1st rd of turns.so,if u like a tough challenge so much then why have u taken so many of those 1st turns for Moon or whoever?I am not just speaking of the present but the past also.

BW

You may count how much CoF sat, it will be higher number. But whoever has the highest number, I always did it with clear conscience, knowing that what I am doing is covering for really absent player. Therefore I never tried to hide any of my sitting. If you compare it with the most disgusting and proficient method of intentionally hiding the sitting done when he knew what he was doing was totally against rules which you can find here viewtopic.php?f=239&t=174462 you will see the big difference between my honest covering for absent players, and his knowingly violating rules.
I can say there are less than 10 games ever that I was sitting for Moonchild in opening turn of an unlimited game. It is easy to prove if I am wrong with this statement by just briefly checking all our games together. And most of them were from period of 3 months ago when he was absent during weekends and it happened opening turn came to weekend time (and opponents were aware in advance and agreed about that situation).
Also, not often to speak with you, so hat down for your skills in unlimited games. Honestly, you were reason why I even started to play those settings. It was before KORT-THOTA war, and I had seen beforehand that a lot of unlimited games will be coming from THOTA, so I decided I will practice the settings a little to be good enough opposition.

[Foxglove]

And where have I spoken ill of anyone, even on a wall?

Muppet? Puppet? Retard? Moron?

[josko.ri]

And where have I spoken ill of anyone, even on a wall?

Muppet? Puppet? Retard? Moron?

Foxy, this is not good enough to be high class poet. Muppet and Puppet is great rhyme, but for Retard and Moron little is missing to be good rhyme

[niMic]

josko,just a few things pal.u haven't been on CC for a whole 4 years but I have(6+).I can honestly say I have never seen 1 player sit for another(Moon) so many times in that span.i will even go as far to say that u have probably taken more turns for another player(clan games) more than any other in that time frame.is there a way to prove it,i wish there was.u also just said,u don't mind "sitting", well,no kidding.u and I are both fans of the unlimited setting and we both know for a fact that games can be won and lost in the 1st rd of turns.so,if u like a tough challenge so much then why have u taken so many of those 1st turns for Moon or whoever?I am not just speaking of the present but the past also.

BW

Be that as it may, the fact is that CoF is the one who has been banned for account sitting, not josko.

As for the rest of your post, I assume you know about the arrangement josko has had with Moon. Moon simply hasn't been able to play on weekends. This has been brought up many times, and the conclusion was that it wasn't against the rules for josko to take turns for Moon on weekends. They are real life friends, this isn't a concoction to abuse the game, or anything like that. He even often delays taking his own turns just so he won't have to sit for Moon. I am pretty damn confident that josko has never sat the first turn, or any turn for that matter, for someone just to gain an advantage. He'll give you advice if you ask for it, and he'll tell you off for playing poorly, but he won't play for you.

[freakns]

My problem is not that sitting, problem is fact that CoF pointed fingers to me that I am doing it for Moon, and then he did worse thing for you. If your advice is not to speak about sitting in public forum, maybe you should tell to CoF that advice before he had posted this post: viewtopic.php?f=441&t=183896&start=90#p4068127
If he can freely throw away his suspects about our abuse in this forum, why should not I also? The accusing game started from his side, and it was normal, but this is not normal?

And thanks for the constructive advice, I will ask your superior about the case.

Please explain how him sitting for me is worse from you sitting for Moon? I am also interested why you qualify him saving that turn as an abuse. Do you maybe imply that I am incapable to play Ardennes without CoF on my own? Or maybe you think that CoF knows Ardennes better than I do?

well, i played against Josko while he was sitting for Moon, beat him easily... i played against CoF too, lost more times then i beat him i think, so yes, if CoF is doing the sitting it gives you bigger advantage then if Josko is doing the sitting.
got it now?


also, Josko, props for flaming!!! you are the first person in 6+ years that got BW to react negatively!!! that dude is as cool as it gets, and you got him going... massive respect



and this thread is finally starting to get alive. loving it!

[Foxglove]

I have repeatedly seen insinuations from Kort members (and others) that TOFU is a one man show, and it would seem that some people truly beleive CoF runs around directing games he's not in. This is just so funny to me that my English fails me. I can't convey my amusement in words.

I feel rather sorry for KoRT if their clan is anything like a few of their members seem to beleive TOFU is.
Shit, ever heard of cachejob, Big Whiskey, Master Fenrir, Seulessliathan, Dako, Comic Boy, Iron Maid etc etc...
The thought of these gentlemen needing instruction is... again at a loss for words.

My point being is that The Odd Fellows Union has a handful of all-stars, not just one. And in general if your in the clan it's because the clan feels they can throw you against anyone, anywhere and expect you to prevail.
I'll happily meet Josko, or anyone for that matter with LMS at my side, or catnipdreams or any of the 21 members of my clan. And if I'm in a clan-war game it's because I've played that map before, and thus I'd have no reason to ask anyone outside the game how to play my turn. I never have, and never will.

No matter what the level of competition, I think one has to draw the line somewhere, and I can happily inform you all that TOFU draws the line there. We plan our turns with the team-mates inside the actual game. Sure, in Random League games people have asked for advice once or twice, but I'm talking about 99% of the turns taken.

I write this because I've played online games before. I know what it's like being in a low ranked clan and looking up, one speculates, and sometimes the imagination runs a little wild, as it obviously has here. Because some of the assumptions that are made are just laughable. So here's a little reality check for those of you who don't know, and for those of you that should know better

(this ofc applies to the ludicrous thought that CoF would sit a turn here (for Dako now apparently ) or there for "strategic" reasons too, but I won't got into that because to do so would mean venting some personal thoughts about why Josko believes that, and I can't do so without being rude.)

Here's me for the past 3-4 years:

I have repeatedly seen insinuations from Tofu members (and others) that KORT is a one man show, and it would seem that some people truly beleive josko runs around directing games he's not in. This is just so funny to me that my English fails me. I can't convey my amusement in words.

I feel rather sorry for ToFU if their clan is anything like a few of their members seem to beleive KORT is.
Shit, ever heard of Rodion, sjnap, ballenus, agonzos, prismsaber, loes, Masli etc etc...
The thought of these gentlepeople needing instruction is... again at a loss for words.

My point being is that Knights of the Round Table has a handful of all-stars, not just one. And in general if your in the clan it's because the clan feels they can throw you against anyone, anywhere and expect you to prevail.
I'll happily meet CoF, or anyone for that matter with denthefrog at my side, or drunkmoney or any of the members of my clan. And if I'm in a clan-war game it's because I've played that map before, and thus I'd have no reason to ask anyone outside the game how to play my turn. I never have, and never will.

No matter what the level of competition, I think one has to draw the line somewhere, and I can happily inform you all that KORT draws the line there. We plan our turns with the team-mates inside the actual game. Sure, in Random League games people have asked for advice once or twice, but I'm talking about 99% of the turns taken.

I write this because I've played online games before. I know what it's like being in a low ranked clan and looking up, one speculates, and sometimes the imagination runs a little wild, as it obviously has here. Because some of the assumptions that are made are just laughable. So here's a little reality check for those of you who don't know, and for those of you that should know better

(this ofc applies to the ludicrous thought that Josko would sit a turn here (for Rodion now apparently ) or there for "strategic" reasons too, but I won't got into that because to do so would mean venting some personal thoughts about why CoF believes that, and I can't do so without being rude.)

[niMic]

also, Josko, props for flaming!!! you are the first person in 6+ years that got BW to react negatively!!! that dude is as cool as it gets, and you got him going... massive respect

You've only been on the site for 4 years, though

[Dako]

Second time I need to repeat the same thing what I have already answered. I did it in last reply to you, I do it here, but next time you ask me something that has already been answered I will just ignore you.

so answer to question "Please explain how him sitting for me is worse from you sitting for Moon? I am also interested why you qualify him saving that turn as an abuse. " has been already answered, here is repeat: "You pointed fingers in my sitting for Moon when he was last online with 23 hours left on timer (my only sitting in this war btw), and then you sit for Dako in Ardennes, and Dako was playing the whole that day turns in other games, commented in this thread twice, 5 and 7 hours before the turn was to expire. In addition, I think he did not have Moderator privileges removed when you sat, which gives me another suspicion that I am not sure of answer, is it allowed to share Moderator's password (excluding absence time) with non-moderator user?"

Josko, just to be clear. You think it is abuse because:
a) he played my turn
b) he had my password
c) both of the above

Please can you answer that so I understand your position? It would really help me see what you mean because right now it is not clear to me.

[niMic]

Dako, give it a rest. He's already said that he doesn't think it's abuse. In fact, the entire point of the post you quoted was that the only reason he brings it up is that CoF brought something equally harmless up. Look to your own house.

[Chariot of Fire]

And where have I spoken ill of anyone, even on a wall?

Muppet? Puppet? Retard? Moron?

Care to find any of these remarks in a public thread?

If I haven't called Josko a moron I probably should have done so. Thanks for bringing it to mind though.

And what is wrong with puppets? Puppets are entertaining. I like puppets.

I like Moon.

[freakns]

also, Josko, props for flaming!!! you are the first person in 6+ years that got BW to react negatively!!! that dude is as cool as it gets, and you got him going... massive respect

You've only been on the site for 4 years, though

true i should rewrite that. first person in 4+ years that i saw that got under BW skin...
but im pretty sure BW was cool before i join in. you can testify on it

[Foxglove]

Please can you answer that so I understand your position? It would really help me see what you mean because right now it is not clear to me.

I think I can clear things up for both of you.

1. CoF questioned an instance of account sitting of moonchild by josko in this thread, and implied it was abuse.
2. Josko questioned an instance of account sitting of Dako by CoF in this thread in reply, and implied the circumstances were the same.

[niMic]

And where have I spoken ill of anyone, even on a wall?

Muppet? Puppet? Retard? Moron?

Care to find any of these remarks in a public thread?

If I haven't called Josko a moron I probably should have done so. Thanks for bringing it to mind though.

And what is wrong with puppets? Puppets are entertaining. I like puppets.

I like Moon.

viewtopic.php?f=239&t=148339&p=3302483&hilit=moron#p3302483

Wow, you really are one vindictive moron aren't you!

1. No the case shouldn't be decided because I never had the opportunity to submit a rebuttal (I only had internet access the other day)
2. What on Earth are you talking about re the case above? It's in black and white that Dako was away - see his post. Are you now saying I'm at fault for not playing turns in his other games at the same time and waiting to play them until later? And why would I take a turn in Game 9043473 when he has three team mates, one of whom could cover for him? And as you can see from the chat log, I played Game 9173843 for Dako, even with the clear stipulation 'Sunday only'. Can't make it much clearer than that.

Get a life you retard.

That took me all of 30 seconds to find. You really buy into your own propaganda, don't you?

[Dako]

Dako, give it a rest. He's already said that he doesn't think it's abuse. In fact, the entire point of the post you quoted was that the only reason he brings it up is that CoF brought something equally harmless up. Look to your own house.

Maybe. Well, if he doesn't think it is an abuse and is a perfectly normal action then why did he bring something absolutely normal as an example to counter CoF's statement? I am lost.

[Chariot of Fire]

I have repeatedly seen insinuations from Tofu members (and others) that KORT is a one man show

Those 'others' including Josko "I am the undefeated man" himself

[freakns]

And where have I spoken ill of anyone, even on a wall?

Muppet? Puppet? Retard? Moron?

Care to find any of these remarks in a public thread?

If I haven't called Josko a moron I probably should have done so. Thanks for bringing it to mind though.

And what is wrong with puppets? Puppets are entertaining. I like puppets.

I like Moon.

i just fell of my chair, this is brutal

so, if Moon got his nick from Iron Maiden song, Josko should took one from Metallica?

[Foxglove]

And where have I spoken ill of anyone, even on a wall?

Muppet? Puppet? Retard? Moron?

Care to find any of these remarks in a public thread?

If I haven't called Josko a moron I probably should have done so. Thanks for bringing it to mind though.

I linked a few above, there are more.

And what is wrong with puppets? Puppets are entertaining. I like puppets.

I like Moon.

I would never have known that from the way you have commented about him over the past years.

[niMic]

Dako, give it a rest. He's already said that he doesn't think it's abuse. In fact, the entire point of the post you quoted was that the only reason he brings it up is that CoF brought something equally harmless up. Look to your own house.

Maybe. Well, if he doesn't think it is an abuse and is a perfectly normal action then why did he bring something absolutely normal as an example to counter CoF's statement? I am lost.

I don't know exactly what josko thinks, but I'm pretty sure his point was that CoF does exactly what he accuses josko of, repeatedly. If CoF really thinks josko is abusing CC, then he should bring it up in a C&A thread. He should probably make sure he's not also violating the same rules first, if he wants to avoid getting banned again.

[Dako]

Please can you answer that so I understand your position? It would really help me see what you mean because right now it is not clear to me.

I think I can clear things up for both of you.

1. CoF questioned an instance of account sitting of moonchild by josko in this thread, and implied it was abuse.
2. Josko questioned an instance of account sitting of Dako by CoF in this thread in reply, and implied the circumstances were the same.

Well, they are not the same I fear. CoF has played the turn under current clan sitting rules so that cannot be classified as sitting abuse. And he has sat for one turn only which was not a crucial move or an opening move or anything even remotely difficult to play.

I don't know exactly what josko thinks, but I'm pretty sure his point was that CoF does exactly what he accuses josko of, repeatedly. If CoF really thinks josko is abusing CC, then he should bring it up in a C&A thread. He should probably make sure he's not also violating the same rules first, if he wants to avoid getting banned again.

That is why I asked josko but you decided to chip in into our conversation :(.

[freakns]

Dako, give it a rest. He's already said that he doesn't think it's abuse. In fact, the entire point of the post you quoted was that the only reason he brings it up is that CoF brought something equally harmless up. Look to your own house.

Maybe. Well, if he doesn't think it is an abuse and is a perfectly normal action then why did he bring something absolutely normal as an example to counter CoF's statement? I am lost.

I don't know exactly what josko thinks, but I'm pretty sure his point was that CoF does exactly what he accuses josko of, repeatedly. If CoF really thinks josko is abusing CC, then he should bring it up in a C&A thread. He should probably make sure he's not also violating the same rules first, if he wants to avoid getting banned again.

you know what is the funniest part about this?
THEY BOTH ARE DOING IT!
they dont break the rules, but they both walk the thin line between! and from what i see, neither you or Foxy would ever say Josko is doing it, just like Dako would never say CoF is doing it, but you are perfectly fine with pointing fingers to others.

look, im maybe one out of 5 ppl on this site who actually respect both CoF and Josko and have(had?) good relationship with both of them, and i can tell you without any doubt, they are like twins! brilliant players and sore losers. the only difference is that CoF is witty in his comments

[niMic]

I don't know exactly what josko thinks, but I'm pretty sure his point was that CoF does exactly what he accuses josko of, repeatedly. If CoF really thinks josko is abusing CC, then he should bring it up in a C&A thread. He should probably make sure he's not also violating the same rules first, if he wants to avoid getting banned again.

That is why I asked josko but you decided to chip in into our conversation .

I don't understand why you have to be so abrasive. I was just trying to help clear things up. The only reason you had a question to ask in the first place is because you didn't read josko's post properly.

Also, unlike me, josko actually has a life. I'm taking the hit!

[Foxglove]

Dako, give it a rest. He's already said that he doesn't think it's abuse. In fact, the entire point of the post you quoted was that the only reason he brings it up is that CoF brought something equally harmless up. Look to your own house.

Maybe. Well, if he doesn't think it is an abuse and is a perfectly normal action then why did he bring something absolutely normal as an example to counter CoF's statement? I am lost.

I don't know exactly what josko thinks, but I'm pretty sure his point was that CoF does exactly what he accuses josko of, repeatedly. If CoF really thinks josko is abusing CC, then he should bring it up in a C&A thread. He should probably make sure he's not also violating the same rules first, if he wants to avoid getting banned again.

you know what is the funniest part about this?
THEY BOTH ARE DOING IT!
they dont break the rules, but they both walk the thin line between! and from what i see, neither you or Foxy would ever say Josko is doing it, just like Dako would never say CoF is doing it, but you are perfectly fine with pointing fingers to others.

I like to think that i just call out rudeness, lies, and hypocrisy.

[niMic]

I'm willing to forget the last few pages happened if everyone else is. It's funny for a few hours, but if we're going to keep this up for the rest of the war it's going to get very boring very fast.

[Arama86n]

I have repeatedly seen insinuations from Kort members (and others) that TOFU is a one man show, and it would seem that some people truly beleive CoF runs around directing games he's not in. This is just so funny to me that my English fails me. I can't convey my amusement in words.

I feel rather sorry for KoRT if their clan is anything like a few of their members seem to beleive TOFU is.
Shit, ever heard of cachejob, Big Whiskey, Master Fenrir, Seulessliathan, Dako, Comic Boy, Iron Maid etc etc...
The thought of these gentlemen needing instruction is... again at a loss for words.

My point being is that The Odd Fellows Union has a handful of all-stars, not just one. And in general if your in the clan it's because the clan feels they can throw you against anyone, anywhere and expect you to prevail.
I'll happily meet Josko, or anyone for that matter with LMS at my side, or catnipdreams or any of the 21 members of my clan. And if I'm in a clan-war game it's because I've played that map before, and thus I'd have no reason to ask anyone outside the game how to play my turn. I never have, and never will.

No matter what the level of competition, I think one has to draw the line somewhere, and I can happily inform you all that TOFU draws the line there. We plan our turns with the team-mates inside the actual game. Sure, in Random League games people have asked for advice once or twice, but I'm talking about 99% of the turns taken.

I write this because I've played online games before. I know what it's like being in a low ranked clan and looking up, one speculates, and sometimes the imagination runs a little wild, as it obviously has here. Because some of the assumptions that are made are just laughable. So here's a little reality check for those of you who don't know, and for those of you that should know better

(this ofc applies to the ludicrous thought that CoF would sit a turn here (for Dako now apparently ) or there for "strategic" reasons too, but I won't got into that because to do so would mean venting some personal thoughts about why Josko believes that, and I can't do so without being rude.)

Here's me for the past 3-4 years:

I have repeatedly seen insinuations from Tofu members (and others) that KORT is a one man show, and it would seem that some people truly beleive josko runs around directing games he's not in. This is just so funny to me that my English fails me. I can't convey my amusement in words.

I feel rather sorry for ToFU if their clan is anything like a few of their members seem to beleive KORT is.
Shit, ever heard of Rodion, sjnap, ballenus, agonzos, prismsaber, loes, Masli etc etc...
The thought of these gentlepeople needing instruction is... again at a loss for words.

My point being is that Knights of the Round Table has a handful of all-stars, not just one. And in general if your in the clan it's because the clan feels they can throw you against anyone, anywhere and expect you to prevail.
I'll happily meet CoF, or anyone for that matter with denthefrog at my side, or drunkmoney or any of the members of my clan. And if I'm in a clan-war game it's because I've played that map before, and thus I'd have no reason to ask anyone outside the game how to play my turn. I never have, and never will.

No matter what the level of competition, I think one has to draw the line somewhere, and I can happily inform you all that KORT draws the line there. We plan our turns with the team-mates inside the actual game. Sure, in Random League games people have asked for advice once or twice, but I'm talking about 99% of the turns taken.

I write this because I've played online games before. I know what it's like being in a low ranked clan and looking up, one speculates, and sometimes the imagination runs a little wild, as it obviously has here. Because some of the assumptions that are made are just laughable. So here's a little reality check for those of you who don't know, and for those of you that should know better

(this ofc applies to the ludicrous thought that Josko would sit a turn here (for Rodion now apparently ) or there for "strategic" reasons too, but I won't got into that because to do so would mean venting some personal thoughts about why CoF believes that, and I can't do so without being rude.)

Well, it would have been interesting if you had written your thoughts in your own words instead of copying mine, but point taken Foxglove. Also they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, so...

In general though I'm not sure you can mirror the situation perfectly like that, becase as far as I know when talking about KoRT people are only saying that Moonchild/Moonchilds account is being used as a puppet by Josko ,whereas when the shoe is on the other foot Kort/others have insinuated that TOFU on a larger scale is being directed by CoF in a way that's just laughable and shows ignorance. I mean CoF sitting Dako to gain some advantage, anyone saying such obviously doesn't know Dako. Where as there has been wall-shots posted in forum which shows that Moonchild relies heavilly on Josko for line-by-line instructions for his turns. So you cannot compare Dako to Moonchild. Dako is an exceedingly competent player and plays his games without CoF, where as in the unlim games that have been the source of much dispute, it would seem Moonchild is heavily relient on Josko.

As for the question if Josko/moonchild are guilty of any actual abuse, I try to take my cue from Sherlock and not theorize without data.