Dropping Major Clan Events

[comic boy]

Chapcrap
You state that I am dead set against any punishments for clans that regula disrupt events yet this is patently untrue. In my response to your opening post I agreed with the general principle and followed that by agreeing that Foxys idea had merit.
You are demanding punishments yet , as Chem points out , give no specifics on how these would work , furthermore you have constantly evaded pointed responses to your posts.
I think the way forward might be a Cclan charter that stresses the importance of fullfilling event obligations and stating that clans who regularly cause grief can expect some form of retribution.
Each case though must be decided on merit , we cant just have fixed penalties that dont take circumstances into consideration.
I would say though that such a statement should not only cover one specific area , in terms of negativety far more damage has been done to the clan world by aggressive forum abuse and highly questionable gamesmanship.
These issues need to be addressed also and serial offenders brought to task.

[Qwert]

Every problem could be solve in normal conversation. So best way,its to make discusion in CD&F where All Clan Representative could discuse and give sugestion for this cases. If all Clans could reach agrement on what are appropriate tournament withdraw and what are not, then CD can react relaxed.

I must say that AOC/EMP and Tofu, make contact in advance and they realy dont have intention to disrupt competition, and that they dont have any bad thinking. CL5 lost three participiant who will definitly increase game value of competition, but AOC/EMP and Tofu are also in losing , not playing in Top Event. When you by your self , forced to leave Top Clan Event, this its biggest punishment for you and your clan.

eddie
lets start a clean sheet in the clan world from this point and hope we get a clear set of rules to follow a clear set of punishments which every clan will face for breaching rules... then and only then i can see this site and clans going forward... because no mater what anyone says this is a problem as a whole on the site rules are not followed player for player, clan by clan team by team or even moderator by moderator.

1 clear set of rules for everyone followed for every player team or clan and that will sort the site out

I want to emphasis that this year CL are big step forward , and everything going good. Rules are clear, schedule are clear, updates are on time, and we dont have any problems. And this year CL will finished much earlier then previous league, and clan will have 3-4 month free before start of next league. But you are one of few who dont see positive .

[chapcrap]

Chapcrap
You state that I am dead set against any punishments for clans that regula disrupt events yet this is patently untrue. In my response to your opening post I agreed with the general principle and followed that by agreeing that Foxys idea had merit.
You are demanding punishments yet , as Chem points out , give no specifics on how these would work , furthermore you have constantly evaded pointed responses to your posts.
I think the way forward might be a Cclan charter that stresses the importance of fullfilling event obligations and stating that clans who regularly cause grief can expect some form of retribution.
Each case though must be decided on merit , we cant just have fixed penalties that dont take circumstances into consideration.
I would say though that such a statement should not only cover one specific area , in terms of negativety far more damage has been done to the clan world by aggressive forum abuse and highly questionable gamesmanship.
These issues need to be addressed also and serial offenders brought to task.

I'm not sure what you think I've evaded. I viewed Foxy's post as along the same thought as me. Something needs done. As for not giving specifics, I can outline specifics, that's not hard. Is that what it will take for cheme to take this serious? I'm happy that's he's posted here, but I think he has to see that I'm not the only one that thinks something needs done. So, yeah, I can outline specifics, but I assumed that the CD's would want to do that themselves since they should be the ones following through.

I think a clan charter and set of rules would be good. A section about dropping events would be great. I don't think I necessarily disagree that sitting abuse and other questionable gamesmanship are worse for overall clan world morale than event dropping, but it seems to me that those have been dealt with already.

[L M S]

I feel like you are making a big ass deal out of something that really isn't, Chap. What's the big adversity to the morale of the entire clan world here?
A bye week in the middle of a tough tourney to get a break and re-focus? That sounds to me like something that should already be part of the major tourneys.

Quitting in the middle of a big tourney is a bigger pain in the ass for everybody but, still not that bad to iron out really. Dropping before the tourney gets going is no big deal at all, especially when given the green light by the proper big shot in charge types prior to dropping.
I get that it could cause an extremely minor disruption for a day or two but, I don't see the reason for jumping up and down until the bed breaks about it, friend. Even the latest situation is already water under the bridge, adjustments have already been made - life is peachy again.

Unexpected shit happens, no reason to punish anyone over it. People change their minds, no reason to ban them from future events. Personnel evolves and with it priorities, no reason to threaten retribution over that.

How many clans out there today that are over 50% the same, roster wise, as they were 2 years ago? We can go 1 1/2 years if you like (about the time it takes to do the CC Cup) For a small clan like **** that usually hovers right around 20 members anyway, what you are suggesting doing is making the future pay for the past. Why would anyone want to join a clan they knew were under "probation" and couldn't play in the best clan tourney's CC had to offer for two years or whatever? Meanwhile, the only way a small clan could get strong enough again to compete in high profile events would be to recruit and gain strength in the membership. It would be a never ending loop and it would actually kill the clan instead of allowing it to regroup and come back prepared and ready to rock.

[chemefreak]

Let's do this. When we start discussing rules for the CL6 or CCup5, let's see if we can agree on a proper punishment for any clan that joins and leaves. That way, they will have consented to the punishment when they signed up. Sound like a plan?

[Dako]

Let's do this. When we start discussing rules for the CL6 or CCup5, let's see if we can agree on a proper punishment for any clan that joins and leaves. That way, they will have consented to the punishment when they signed up. Sound like a plan?

Agree. People will cool down by that time and we will be able to make more progress then.

[eddie2]

Let's do this. When we start discussing rules for the CL6 or CCup5, let's see if we can agree on a proper punishment for any clan that joins and leaves. That way, they will have consented to the punishment when they signed up. Sound like a plan?

I for one would one hundred percent agree with this but please tell me would that be a rule for everyone or just a rule for who you seem fit to punish for?

Because just now there is no rule against it so no punishment can be issued for doing it

[chemefreak]

Let's do this. When we start discussing rules for the CL6 or CCup5, let's see if we can agree on a proper punishment for any clan that joins and leaves. That way, they will have consented to the punishment when they signed up. Sound like a plan?

I for one would one hundred percent agree with this but please tell me would that be a rule for everyone or just a rule for who you seem fit to punish for?

Because just now there is no rule against it so no punishment can be issued for doing it

Like everything in the clan world, it would be at the CDs' whim, of course!

Eddie, I know you are upset that we did not give you 25 forfeits against KoRT, but comments like the one above are just silly.

If the clans agree on a punishment, and it can be installed prior to the sign-ups for the next big event, I (of course) am fine with punishing those that agreed to the punishment before signing up.

[greenoaks]

Let's do this. When we start discussing rules for the CL6 or CCup5, let's see if we can agree on a proper punishment for any clan that joins and leaves. That way, they will have consented to the punishment when they signed up. Sound like a plan?

you said there already is a punishment.

what is it?

[chapcrap]

I feel like you are making a big ass deal out of something that really isn't, Chap. What's the big adversity to the morale of the entire clan world here?
A bye week in the middle of a tough tourney to get a break and re-focus? That sounds to me like something that should already be part of the major tourneys.

None of the drops discussed gave anyone a bye week because there are still two rounds at a time.

Quitting in the middle of a big tourney is a bigger pain in the ass for everybody but, still not that bad to iron out really. Dropping before the tourney gets going is no big deal at all, especially when given the green light by the proper big shot in charge types prior to dropping.
I get that it could cause an extremely minor disruption for a day or two but, I don't see the reason for jumping up and down until the bed breaks about it, friend. Even the latest situation is already water under the bridge, adjustments have already been made - life is peachy again.

None of the drops discussed were before an event started. If it's before something starts, then I have no problem with it at all. Once a bracket has been made and any games have started, then it's not before the event started. Here is an example of dropping before an event starts: viewtopic.php?f=443&t=188754&start=75#p4142698

Unexpected shit happens, no reason to punish anyone over it. People change their minds, no reason to ban them from future events. Personnel evolves and with it priorities, no reason to threaten retribution over that.

How many clans out there today that are over 50% the same, roster wise, as they were 2 years ago? We can go 1 1/2 years if you like (about the time it takes to do the CC Cup) For a small clan like **** that usually hovers right around 20 members anyway, what you are suggesting doing is making the future pay for the past. Why would anyone want to join a clan they knew were under "probation" and couldn't play in the best clan tourney's CC had to offer for two years or whatever? Meanwhile, the only way a small clan could get strong enough again to compete in high profile events would be to recruit and gain strength in the membership. It would be a never ending loop and it would actually kill the clan instead of allowing it to regroup and come back prepared and ready to rock.

If you make it 1.5 years into CCup, then I don't think you're gonna be dropping out in the finals. Other events aren't nearly as long and it seems to me like those are the events that are in more danger of dropouts. Besides, there are attempts to try to shorten up CCup this time around. I hope the work and are followed through with.

What clan did you mean when you said ****? I think rules can be crafted that would allow a clan to thrive in the future as well as sanction it. If a clan takes a drop from being sanctioned in any way, then I don't see much of a problem with that anyway. That's part of the deterrent to dropping out. Who suggested a two year ban? I don't think anyone of sound mind would suggest a two year ban.

Let's do this. When we start discussing rules for the CL6 or CCup5, let's see if we can agree on a proper punishment for any clan that joins and leaves. That way, they will have consented to the punishment when they signed up. Sound like a plan?

I think a blanket rule for clan events would be better, so it would be better to have discussion going now. CL and CCup aren't the only major events and we don't know what the future holds, so I think it's best to make a rule for any multi-clan event ahead of time.

[ViperOverLord]

I don't have a problem with penalties for dropping out of an event as long as they are built into the details of the competition. I don't want there to be room for arbitrary punishment.

[chemefreak]

Just seems like you don't listen to what people have to say. All you say is this thread will get locked if someone says this and they will be punished. Obviously these things are brought up because they bother certain individuals. Wouldn't it only be fair if you took these concerns under serious consideration.

I did not threaten to lock this thread. I just think that there hasn't been a clan that "dropped" an event. The situations that are at issue here did not cause harm to anyone. And they did not just "drop" the event, they came to us or the TOs and asked for permission...which was given.

Now, if a clan just decided to disappear or "drop" an event, you wouldn't even hear about it. We would propose such harsh punishment to the privilege holder, the clan leadership, and (if necessary) the clan members themselves that no clan would risk it. Trust me, no clan could just "drop" an event and live long enough to tell about.

so there already is a punishment just like Chap is asking for there to be.

could you please explain what it is and how it is calculated so we are all forewarned.

Sorry. Missed this one.

It is not actually a punishment per se. But clans have threatened to drop challenges before. We typically go to the privileges holder and see what is going on. If we get no response, or one we don't like the response, we go to the leadership of the clan. If the leadership does not provide an adequate response, or we don't like the response, we go to the membership to see if anyone in the clan cares about the decisions that were made. I would draw your attention to what happened with Dynasty in the CCup3. So far, we have never failed to get someone to take over the war, event, etc. However, if the privileges holder, clan leaders, and all clan members fail to respond or provide an adequate solution we do have the "clan ban" in our pocket. Basically, in such a scenario, all current members of the clan and any future member would be banned from holding privileges for a set period (3-12 months) [they would obviously be provided notice that this would occur if they failed to carry on]. This, in essence, would kill that clan. It is not a pretty scenario, but the threat has so far been successful. I would say we have used this potential sanction a handful of times. Of course, if those clan members go to other clans, there is not much we can do except restrict them from holding privileges.

You can see where we could go from there. We could insert a "poison pill" provision that says that any clan with one of those players would also be prohibited from events, etc. However, since the issue has never really come up, there has been no reason to debate it.

I know that the outspoken players in here think that CDs wield their power just for the sake of wielding power. However, there are plenty out there that know that this is not true. We want this to be enjoyable for everyone. Empire and Agents of Chaos wanted to form a new clan. We figured that letting them continue in the CL as a single new clan was unfair to the other clans. If one had merged into the other then the merging players would have only been tied for the first round. They could have continued in the second round as a combined clan under whichever flag they chose. So, to me at least, it was their loss to drop (not to mention the huge impact on the F400). If the same thing happened DURING the second round, our decision would have been much different.

I am of the opinion that it is the same for TOFU. Their loss. It should also be noted that ++The Legion++ probably would have benefited the most had a bye not been the preferred course of action by the TO. That being said, the experience (imo) remains the same for everyone else but the players from TOFU. (Would someone please drop from SL so we can have a bye once? )

In the end, the CDs' methods of making sure wars and events don't get ABANDONED has been extremely effective. We do this behind the scenes and most of the time the clan world has no idea that it has even happened.

All this being said, if the clan world (in CDF) decides that a punishment is warranted for future events, that is cool with us. If you have a plan, contact your CDF representative and have them put it forward in the thread currently going in that forum. It is going to be extremely difficult to build a punishment that fits EVERY situation, but it might be out there. We shall see.

Kisses.

[greenoaks]

Just seems like you don't listen to what people have to say. All you say is this thread will get locked if someone says this and they will be punished. Obviously these things are brought up because they bother certain individuals. Wouldn't it only be fair if you took these concerns under serious consideration.

I did not threaten to lock this thread. I just think that there hasn't been a clan that "dropped" an event. The situations that are at issue here did not cause harm to anyone. And they did not just "drop" the event, they came to us or the TOs and asked for permission...which was given.

Now, if a clan just decided to disappear or "drop" an event, you wouldn't even hear about it. We would propose such harsh punishment to the privilege holder, the clan leadership, and (if necessary) the clan members themselves that no clan would risk it. Trust me, no clan could just "drop" an event and live long enough to tell about.

so there already is a punishment just like Chap is asking for there to be.

could you please explain what it is and how it is calculated so we are all forewarned.

Sorry. Missed this one.

It is not actually a punishment per se. But clans have threatened to drop challenges before. We typically go to the privileges holder and see what is going on. If we get no response, or one we don't like the response, we go to the leadership of the clan. If the leadership does not provide an adequate response, or we don't like the response, we go to the membership to see if anyone in the clan cares about the decisions that were made. I would draw your attention to what happened with Dynasty in the CCup3. So far, we have never failed to get someone to take over the war, event, etc. However, if the privileges holder, clan leaders, and all clan members fail to respond or provide an adequate solution we do have the "clan ban" in our pocket. Basically, in such a scenario, all current members of the clan and any future member would be banned from holding privileges for a set period (3-12 months) [they would obviously be provided notice that this would occur if they failed to carry on]. This, in essence, would kill that clan. It is not a pretty scenario, but the threat has so far been successful. I would say we have used this potential sanction a handful of times. Of course, if those clan members go to other clans, there is not much we can do except restrict them from holding privileges.

You can see where we could go from there. We could insert a "poison pill" provision that says that any clan with one of those players would also be prohibited from events, etc. However, since the issue has never really come up, there has been no reason to debate it.

that sounds similar to Tournaments where abandoning a tournament can stop you from being granted privileges for a time.

if they go to another clan could you restrict them from participating in 'Official' events for a set period of time or until they have completed a War with the new clan?

[chemefreak]

Just seems like you don't listen to what people have to say. All you say is this thread will get locked if someone says this and they will be punished. Obviously these things are brought up because they bother certain individuals. Wouldn't it only be fair if you took these concerns under serious consideration.

I did not threaten to lock this thread. I just think that there hasn't been a clan that "dropped" an event. The situations that are at issue here did not cause harm to anyone. And they did not just "drop" the event, they came to us or the TOs and asked for permission...which was given.

Now, if a clan just decided to disappear or "drop" an event, you wouldn't even hear about it. We would propose such harsh punishment to the privilege holder, the clan leadership, and (if necessary) the clan members themselves that no clan would risk it. Trust me, no clan could just "drop" an event and live long enough to tell about.

so there already is a punishment just like Chap is asking for there to be.

could you please explain what it is and how it is calculated so we are all forewarned.

Sorry. Missed this one.

It is not actually a punishment per se. But clans have threatened to drop challenges before. We typically go to the privileges holder and see what is going on. If we get no response, or one we don't like the response, we go to the leadership of the clan. If the leadership does not provide an adequate response, or we don't like the response, we go to the membership to see if anyone in the clan cares about the decisions that were made. I would draw your attention to what happened with Dynasty in the CCup3. So far, we have never failed to get someone to take over the war, event, etc. However, if the privileges holder, clan leaders, and all clan members fail to respond or provide an adequate solution we do have the "clan ban" in our pocket. Basically, in such a scenario, all current members of the clan and any future member would be banned from holding privileges for a set period (3-12 months) [they would obviously be provided notice that this would occur if they failed to carry on]. This, in essence, would kill that clan. It is not a pretty scenario, but the threat has so far been successful. I would say we have used this potential sanction a handful of times. Of course, if those clan members go to other clans, there is not much we can do except restrict them from holding privileges.

You can see where we could go from there. We could insert a "poison pill" provision that says that any clan with one of those players would also be prohibited from events, etc. However, since the issue has never really come up, there has been no reason to debate it.

that sounds similar to Tournaments where abandoning a tournament can stop you from being granted privileges for a time.

if they go to another clan could you restrict them from participating in 'Official' events for a set period of time or until they have completed a War with the new clan?

Sure. The problem becomes the players in the clan that don't do very much and don't know much about how the clan works who get caught up in their leadership not doing the right thing. Also, does the entire clan sign up for an event? For instance, I signed the Legion up for the CCup4...I didn't ask first. So did everyone in my clan consent to that kind of punishment? Food for thought.

[josko.ri]

I see many of you are discussing about should clan who drop out be punished for not participating in next year competition which will start several months or one year after current competition.

But, I think people who are discussing about it do not consider (intentionally or not, I don't know) more important issue, should those clans be allowed to enter/play in ongoing clan competitions, not in clan competitions that will happen sometimes in future.

If clan cannot commit to play in one competition, but he can commit to play in another competition which has higher game load, obviously something is fishy in that decision?

CL5 has 16 new games every 2 weeks, and CC4 has 20 new games (or 21 in tie-breaker week) every 2 weeks to fill. If clan say for themselves that they cannot commit to join 16 new games in CL5 every 2 weeks, how we can believe them that they will be able to join 20 new games in CC4 every 2 weeks?

I do not say penalize withdrawing clan for lifetime or for next competitions (if they provide evidence that they recruited some new members), but I say eliminate them from all ongoing competitions which have equal or higher game load than competition which they withdrew. If they at current time cannot have commitment for 16 new games every 2 weeks, isn't it paradoxal to allow them to compete at the same time in another competition which has 20 new games every 2 weeks?

If they for future events recruit new players and be again able to compete, then allow them enter, but at the same time of withdrawing one competition, they should not be allowed to play in another competition which has higher game load.

[greenoaks]

Just seems like you don't listen to what people have to say. All you say is this thread will get locked if someone says this and they will be punished. Obviously these things are brought up because they bother certain individuals. Wouldn't it only be fair if you took these concerns under serious consideration.

I did not threaten to lock this thread. I just think that there hasn't been a clan that "dropped" an event. The situations that are at issue here did not cause harm to anyone. And they did not just "drop" the event, they came to us or the TOs and asked for permission...which was given.

Now, if a clan just decided to disappear or "drop" an event, you wouldn't even hear about it. We would propose such harsh punishment to the privilege holder, the clan leadership, and (if necessary) the clan members themselves that no clan would risk it. Trust me, no clan could just "drop" an event and live long enough to tell about.

so there already is a punishment just like Chap is asking for there to be.

could you please explain what it is and how it is calculated so we are all forewarned.

Sorry. Missed this one.

It is not actually a punishment per se. But clans have threatened to drop challenges before. We typically go to the privileges holder and see what is going on. If we get no response, or one we don't like the response, we go to the leadership of the clan. If the leadership does not provide an adequate response, or we don't like the response, we go to the membership to see if anyone in the clan cares about the decisions that were made. I would draw your attention to what happened with Dynasty in the CCup3. So far, we have never failed to get someone to take over the war, event, etc. However, if the privileges holder, clan leaders, and all clan members fail to respond or provide an adequate solution we do have the "clan ban" in our pocket. Basically, in such a scenario, all current members of the clan and any future member would be banned from holding privileges for a set period (3-12 months) [they would obviously be provided notice that this would occur if they failed to carry on]. This, in essence, would kill that clan. It is not a pretty scenario, but the threat has so far been successful. I would say we have used this potential sanction a handful of times. Of course, if those clan members go to other clans, there is not much we can do except restrict them from holding privileges.

You can see where we could go from there. We could insert a "poison pill" provision that says that any clan with one of those players would also be prohibited from events, etc. However, since the issue has never really come up, there has been no reason to debate it.

that sounds similar to Tournaments where abandoning a tournament can stop you from being granted privileges for a time.

if they go to another clan could you restrict them from participating in 'Official' events for a set period of time or until they have completed a War with the new clan?

Sure. The problem becomes the players in the clan that don't do very much and don't know much about how the clan works who get caught up in their leadership not doing the right thing. Also, does the entire clan sign up for an event? For instance, I signed the Legion up for the CCup4...I didn't ask first. So did everyone in my clan consent to that kind of punishment? Food for thought.

it seems like you already have in place a decent way of dealing with these situations which is what this thread was created to ask for. i guess it is now about making sure all clans know there is something in place and perhaps tweaking it a little, perhaps not.

i would be ok if i copped a ban on competing in:- the next official tourney/for x months/until 1 completed a war/etc - if it was clear that that was a potential outcome from not stepping up to help my clan out.

[Dako]

If clan cannot commit to play in one competition, but he can commit to play in another competition which has higher game load, obviously something is fishy in that decision?

CL5 has 16 new games every 2 weeks, and CC4 has 20 new games (or 21 in tie-breaker week) every 2 weeks to fill. If clan say for themselves that they cannot commit to join 16 new games in CL5 every 2 weeks, how we can believe them that they will be able to join 20 new games in CC4 every 2 weeks?

There is nothing fishy. Both events together have 36 new games every 2 weeks. A clan found themselves in a situation where they can fill only 25 games every 2 weeks. That means they can handle one event 100% but not both at the same time. Isn't it obvious?

[ljex]

If clan cannot commit to play in one competition, but he can commit to play in another competition which has higher game load, obviously something is fishy in that decision?

CL5 has 16 new games every 2 weeks, and CC4 has 20 new games (or 21 in tie-breaker week) every 2 weeks to fill. If clan say for themselves that they cannot commit to join 16 new games in CL5 every 2 weeks, how we can believe them that they will be able to join 20 new games in CC4 every 2 weeks?

There is nothing fishy. Both events together have 36 new games every 2 weeks. A clan found themselves in a situation where they can fill only 25 games every 2 weeks. That means they can handle one event 100% but not both at the same time. Isn't it obvious?

Apparently the answer would be a no.

Not sure why people care what another clan does...they should be able to make the decisions that are best for them.

I feel people are missing the potential negative of a punishment for dropping an event before it starts in that clans just may not join a lot of events. Instead a clan like TOFU for example who is always low on members joining all of the major events maybe instead they only join the Conquers Cup every year. This by many is considered the most important of the events and probably why they elected to stay in this competition instead of the premier league.

Now a mid ranked clan might not care about these rules but for a top 5 or 10 clan with any fears about not being able to see the competition through, why would they join in the first place? Then once a couple of top clans elect to not play in these other events the other top clans will see that there is less competition and consider not joining. Any top 5-10 clan will always be able to find a war if they find themselves with more time cc hours than the anticipated so why join an event if there is any doubt?

Now is this guaranteed to happen? No, but it is something that could happen and would decrease the competitive level of play in organized events thus decreasing the draw of participating in those events.

[josko.ri]

If clan cannot commit to play in one competition, but he can commit to play in another competition which has higher game load, obviously something is fishy in that decision?

CL5 has 16 new games every 2 weeks, and CC4 has 20 new games (or 21 in tie-breaker week) every 2 weeks to fill. If clan say for themselves that they cannot commit to join 16 new games in CL5 every 2 weeks, how we can believe them that they will be able to join 20 new games in CC4 every 2 weeks?

There is nothing fishy. Both events together have 36 new games every 2 weeks. A clan found themselves in a situation where they can fill only 25 games every 2 weeks. That means they can handle one event 100% but not both at the same time. Isn't it obvious?

If you can fill 25 games every 2 weeks, then there is more chance with one or more unexpected vacation (like your clan mates said happened this time as well) you will come to be able to play lets say 18. In that case you will need drop out from CL4, but you would not be forced to drop out from CL5 if you choose that competition. So you are on safe side if between 2 competitions you chose one with lower game load to play and with higher game load to drop out.

The fact that you in this situation chose clan event with higher game load where your past involvement was still zero (in comparing with CL5 with lower game load and your involvement already being played) makes it fishy and therefore I doubt what are your real reasons.

[chapcrap]

Please josko, we're looking to the future at this point. Punishment for this is not going to happen. We are looking at future drops.

[cachejob]

[Chariot of Fire]

genius!

[chemefreak]

Please josko, we're looking to the future at this point. Punishment for this is not going to happen. We are looking at future drops.

Well, maybe we should vote in CDF to see how TOFU should be punished...

A. No punishment.
B. Clan Ban (12 months).
C. Castration.

Just a thought.

[Qwert]

Please josko, we're looking to the future at this point. Punishment for this is not going to happen. We are looking at future drops.

Well, maybe we should vote in CDF to see how TOFU should be punished...

A. No punishment.
B. Clan Ban (12 months).
C. Castration.

Just a thought.

So in what lvl are TOFU now?

[Dako]

Please josko, we're looking to the future at this point. Punishment for this is not going to happen. We are looking at future drops.

Well, maybe we should vote in CDF to see how TOFU should be punished...

A. No punishment.
B. Clan Ban (12 months).
C. Castration.

Just a thought.

I think you should add qwert to that list because he allowed TOFU to drop out ;). We'd never abandon a competition without TO's approval, bu we were given a clean exit this time.