California [Quenched]

[The Bison King]

The look is nice.... but I think is getting a little tired. I'd like to see you go in a different direction, broaden your horizons a little. I really hate to think this style is all you got.

Besides California is a modern, real place, unlike Celtic 7 or Thyseneal. I really think you'll need more graphically than the water color to pass this one though. It's early still, I'm looking forward to seeing what you got!

Yeah I don't know. I'll admit that this has a long way to go, but I'm not really interested in doing a stylistic overhaul. It's not so much that this style is "all I got" it's more that I am trying to establish a style and this is the one I like. I don't really have an interest in continuing to do maps if I don't like what I'm doing. Like you said this is still early, why don't you wait a little longer till I actually go to town on this to decide if this is the right style or not.

the white in the East is atrocious and should be fixed with maybe a muted brown or a tan of some sort, to signify there's land there.

Obviously, like I said before that in no way is going to be there on the final graphics, but I'm thinking of something a little more than just a brown color... though I'm not sure what yet.

I find the "Pacific Ocean" strange. Okay, I can see the water color effect and that's all well and good, but it doesn't really look like an ocean.

What like a literal image of an ocean?

Also, the zoomed-in parts bleeding into the zoomed-out parts looks really strange to me.

Yes that is something I'll be looking to fix.

[RedBaron0]

Of course I'm not saying you can't have water color elements ever again.... I'm really trying to just broaden your scope include new things, and make this map great. Many single state maps have been tried, and VERY-VERY few have even made it this far.

[The Bison King]

well it's awesome to here that, but I feel a little bit stuck at the moment. I'm not sure where I want to go with the legend. I think I'm going to ditch the current banner, it's not really doing it for me. Maybe something a little more modern might be better. Pretty much the only thing I'm happy with right now are the water colors on the map it's self.

[The Bison King]

Click image to enlarge.

NOT AN OFFICIAL DRAFT, THIS IS JUST A BRAIN STORM.

I'm usually not a fan of when photographs are thrown into the backgrounds of maps but I have a lot of Vacation photos from Cali. So I got this idea, what if I kind of aim to make it look like a tourist map. Maybe arrange the photo graphs in the back a little bit more like photos on a table. You know have more of them and make them more evidently photos.

I left the little city icons on their just to show you what one option would be, but the way I think I should go with that is to make the cities stars, reminiscent of sunset boulevard.

I'm also going to add a palm tree and banner in the bottom right for the signature.

[Victor Sullivan]

I'm usually not a fan of when photographs are thrown into the backgrounds of maps.

Yes, I agree with you here, what you have now looks very strange (I know, it's just a brainstorm).

So I got this idea, what if I kind of aim to make it look like a tourist map. Maybe arrange the photo graphs in the back a little bit more like photos on a table. You know have more of them and make them more evidently photos.

Sounds neat, I'd like to see this idea.

I left the little city icons on their just to show you what one option would be, but the way I think I should go with that is to make the cities stars, reminiscent of sunset boulevard.

Also a neat idea, I do like what you have already, but I'd love to see the stars ideas as well.

-Sully

[Vlasov]

Very nice map -- however, there are some pretty significant mountains along the western, southern, and eastern edges of the "Bakersfield" territory, not unlike the "coastal range" mountains shown farther north. You could put brown mountains between Bakersfield & Santa Barbara, between Bakersfield and 2 of the 3 "L.A." territories, and between Bakersfield and Mojave. One thing that defines the Central (San Joaquin) Valley geographically is that it's bounded by mountains all around -- Coastal Range on the west, Sierra Nevada on the east, and San Gabriels/Tehachapis/etc. around the southern end (Bakersfield/Kern County).

Of course, that would make Central Valley easier to defend, so maybe its bonus could be reduced to 5 (especially since it has FIVE cities!).

Also I would prefer "Imperial" over "Palm Springs"... and could you show a little bit of blue for the California portion of Lake Tahoe in the territory of that name?

(From a former resident of San Diego; living in Bakersfield since 1980).

[The Bison King]

Very nice map -- however, there are some pretty significant mountains along the western, southern, and eastern edges of the "Bakersfield" territory, not unlike the "coastal range" mountains shown farther north. You could put brown mountains between Bakersfield & Santa Barbara, between Bakersfield and 2 of the 3 "L.A." territories, and between Bakersfield and Mojave. One thing that defines the Central (San Joaquin) Valley geographically is that it's bounded by mountains all around -- Coastal Range on the west, Sierra Nevada on the east, and San Gabriels/Tehachapis/etc. around the southern end (Bakersfield/Kern County).

I know what you are saying but I have to leave a lot of those territories open to keep things from becoming too easy to hole. Specifically what I'm thinking about is that Central coast bonus. However, I could extend the mountains down just a little to cover all of Sierra Madre, while leaving Morro bay attack-able by Bakersfield. I also might consider adding mountains between Bakersfield and the top of the LA bonus, if L.A. proves to be too hard to hold.

Also I would prefer "Imperial" over "Palm Springs

That does sound good.

[Vlasov]

I think I said: Add two mountain boundaries between Bakersfield and L.A., out of the three you have now. The two actual mountain highway passes are Tejon/I-5 (to San Fernando Valley; AKA the Grapevine) and Cajon/I-15 (80 miles east, into Riverside).

Also, it should be El Dorado, not "Elderado".

[Industrial Helix]

Not digging the photo background but the greens over to the right are a nice balance to the overall color scheme.

[MrBenn]

I hate to say it, but I really don;t think the visual style fits the theme of the map at all... while it worked for Thyseneal, I don't know how well it works here.

I agree, but does it matter at this stage? I feel like we still need to figure out some of the gameplay concepts, bonus areas, etc.

-Sulls

We're not in graphics yet. One thing at a time.

Now that we're in graphics, I'm going to bring this back up.

I really don't think the watercolour style works on this map. You could probably get away with it if you were doing something like this (below), but I don't know here Part of me thinks a complete graphical overhaul may be in order?

[The Bison King]

Click image to enlarge.

Well here's a slight update. I've taken out all the things that I wasn't so sure about' like the banner and the background to the legend. I replaced the Cities with stars which I rather like.

I hate to say it, but I really don;t think the visual style fits the theme of the map at all... while it worked for Thyseneal, I don't know how well it works here.

I agree, but does it matter at this stage? I feel like we still need to figure out some of the gameplay concepts, bonus areas, etc.

-Sulls

We're not in graphics yet. One thing at a time.

Now that we're in graphics, I'm going to bring this back up.

I really don't think the watercolour style works on this map. You could probably get away with it if you were doing something like this (below), but I don't know here Part of me thinks a complete graphical overhaul may be in order?

I rather like this little map you have posted here. While I agree that the same old water color treatment for the background and legend may not work I think on the map it's self it works fine. But then again I might still be able to pull it off. I think I really need to reel it back, and make it a little easier to look at.

[The Bison King]

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

Ok using that little tourist map as reference this is the direction I think I want to go. OBVIOUSLY, some elements are just representational right now and are not final renderings, like the Palm tree, which will be done in a more painterly fashion. I'm also thinking I need to zoom out a tad on everything and give this thing a border or edge.

I posted 2 versions with different versions of the water. What I want to know is which is a better fit? Should I use photographs at all or should I keep them out of here?

[Victor Sullivan]

I like the second one better; it adds more dimension to the map, I think. A border and zoom-out would be good, I think.

[The Bison King]

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

[Victor Sullivan]

Certainly an improvement. I hope you'll be fixing your signature though...

[The Bison King]

Certainly an improvement. I hope you'll be fixing your signature though...

Yeah I will.

[The Bison King]

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

Bumping, from last page

[The Bison King]

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

Ok with this upload you can pretty much see how it's going to be. All the temporary images have been removed and we can start ironing out all the little nitpicks.

[Bruceswar]

I like where this is going, but also I am not liking the floating land mass idea. Connect it into the US somehow.

[Victor Sullivan]

Ack! Yosemite needs to be capitalized!!

[The Bison King]

I like where this is going, but also I am not liking the floating land mass idea. Connect it into the US somehow.

I had it that way earlier and visually it really didn't do it for me. Also I think it works as disconnected conceptually as well. This is about California as it's own place, not a small part of a larger whole.

Ack! Yosemite needs to be capitalized!!

uh... yeah I think you're right. Good catch.

[lostatlimbo]

I really like where this map is headed and have a few suggestions:

The stunning Channel Islands would be a nice island territory connecting from Santa Barbara.

You've left out the infamous Napa Valley - the most renowned region for growing wine in the US. I think Napa Valley deserves its own territory - set snuggly between Santa Rosa and Sacremento.

Fresno and Inyo Forest should not connect. There are no roads over the Sierras. Instead, I would recommend connecting Modesto and Yosemite (which is actually further West than Inyo Forest).

Death Valley is also in an odd spot and rather small. I can understand the tight fit here, but in reality, the southern border of Death Valley's 3,000 square miles lies north of Bakersfield proper.

Lone Pine is a tiny highway village that only serves as a Portal to Mt. Whitney. Since that area is shown on the map where the northern half of Death Valley should be, I would drop it and just make Death Valley a taller territory. And yes, if you haven't seen it, Death Valley comes right up to the edge of the Sierras. Its one of the most amazing sights I've ever seen.

No Name could be China Lake or China Lake NWC.

Being a border town (with Arizona) Needles seems abnormally large here and Palm Springs is out of place. You're also lacking the infamous Salton Sea and the one of a kind Joshua Tree NP. I would suggest rearranging this area as such:



Some territory names confuse me. I think:
Morro Bay should be named San Luis Obispo
Solano should be named Richmond
San Luis (near Stockton) should be Contra Costa

I don't think B.K. really works as a stand in for Berkeley. Perhaps you could use the full name and let the end of it bleed into Oakland a little.

As to the graphics, I like the overall look, but feel that a place as flashy as California should have a little more "pop" to it. Something with stronger colors and less of a watercolored look. I like the idea of the coastline background, but maybe something more like this?
Google Image Search for "california sunset" for more inspiration.
.

Also - definitely need the Californian flag (and bear)


Despite all my criticisms, I think you have the start of a very solid map here and I look forward to the next update!

[Vlasov]

I agree with almost everything in the previous post.

The Channel Islands lie closer to the LA/San Diego coast areas...maybe they could connect to San Diego and/or Malibu/South Bay?

Beverly Hills is actually located south and mostly east of "S.F.V." (San Fernando Valley) -- why not switch their names?

Also, some minor spelling/capitalization issues:
Redwood, not Red Wood
Yosemite, not yosemite
Big Sur, not Big sur
El Dorado, not El Derado
Santa Cruz, not Sant Cruz

[natty dread]

This is looking quite nice. Some crits:

- the insets look blurry. Quite frankly they look like you just copypasted a part of the map and enlargened it for the insets... I think they are going to need some work.

- not a big fan of the colour scheme. Particularly, northern california looks kinda dirty.

- the title could use some work. It seems a bit too simplistic. Also the inset frames, as well as the brown frame around the map could use some ornamentation. They seem a bit boring now.

Good work otherwise.

[The Bison King]

Ok A lot of good feed back It's going to take a bit to address it all. As for the gameplay suggestions that were brought up, I'll be considering some of them but I can't make any promises. Also remember that when it comes to adding territories there are specific start numbers I have to adhere to. Right now I'm at 42 start locations, I can add 2 more territories with out drastically changing the gameplay, but I can't guarantee that I will.