The Dawn Of Ages - Quenched

[cairnswk]

Guys, what's going on with the mountains and land edges.
They're even so dark now.
IMHO, they looked much better when they were less dense, they looked then like they were part of the map rather then painted no with a thick brush.
Sorry, don't mean to offend, but i think real dark stuff is a turn in the wrong direction.

[porkenbeans]

Guys, what's going on with the mountains and land edges.
They're even so dark now.
IMHO, they looked much better when they were less dense, they looked then like they were part of the map rather then painted no with a thick brush.
Sorry, don't mean to offend, but i think real dark stuff is a turn in the wrong direction.

I don't think that you are looking at his latest version. You have to go back a couple of pages to see it.

[cairnswk]

Guys, what's going on with the mountains and land edges.
They're even so dark now.
IMHO, they looked much better when they were less dense, they looked then like they were part of the map rather then painted no with a thick brush.
Sorry, don't mean to offend, but i think real dark stuff is a turn in the wrong direction.

I don't think that you are looking at his latest version. You have to go back a couple of pages to see it.

Is it not posted on Page 1? That is the version i am referrring to ... V11.

[Kabanellas]

Yes it is. Well, we can't make everybody happy

but let me remind you that there's not such a big difference to previous versions concerning colours grades between all colours, this last versions just became overall slightly darker. It gives a more appealing and dramatic feeling to the map. -Thanks to Porken-

[Kabanellas]

Version 12 ready:

Gateway mechanics have been clarified in the legend

Click image to enlarge.

[porkenbeans]

Yes it is. Well, we can't make everybody happy

but let me remind you that there's not such a big difference to previous versions concerning colours grades between all colours, this last versions just became overall slightly darker. It gives a more appealing and dramatic feeling to the map. -Thanks to Porken-

Thank you Kab,
You don't know how much your appreciation is appreciated. Some people are not as willing as you are, to accept constructive criticism the right way. They tend to perceive it as an attack, instead of a helping hand, ...as it is intended.

[thenobodies80]

Maybe i waited too long...



Onward and Upward!

Have a nice day
Nobodies

[Kabanellas]

Great!!

Hope we deliver with this one

[pikkio]

congratulations for the stamp!

i don't read all the topic, so excuse me if i will say something that you had already discussed about.

i think that you can try to make less dark the reefs cause they pop up too much in my opinion.
why some icons are in monochrome and some other not? i don't know (sorry again..) if you think to make all icons in full drawn, but i hope it cause it will be very cool! the point is that at now i don't like this mixed style cause it don't work well (have no sense, seems an incoherence, and make a little confusion about what is only background and what are icons) and looks not good enough.
in my opinion the solution are 2: make all icons in monochrome and only the background images in full drawn, or make all (icons and background) in full drawn. i'm with the second.

keep the good working!

[Kabanellas]

Thanks Pikkio

Well, the icons and symbols are all monochrome, except the arrows (that translate movement) and the Sea Dragon which is in a sepia-brownish color.

[pikkio]

ummm.. i think that i can't explane well what i wanted..
i will try again, sorry for my difficulties with english..

i mean that icons like elves town or raiders inn are full drawn, and other like warriors training ground or horsemens training ground are in drak-light. with monochrome i mean negative coloured, coloured like a shadow.. i'm sorry but i really don't know what is the correct word in english..

[the.killing.44]

ummm.. i think that i can't explane well what i wanted..
i will try again, sorry for my difficulties with english..

i mean that icons like elves town or raiders inn are full drawn, and other like warriors training ground or horsemens training ground are in drak-light. with monochrome i mean negative coloured, coloured like a shadow.. i'm sorry but i really don't know what is the correct word in english..

Silhouette. And he's right.

Also, I think the gates could look nicer if you actually tried to make them gates into the rocks…[lonnegan]y'falla?[/lonnegan]

Hmm…not a fan of Papyrus, like said before "maybe cause I'm tired of seeing it everywhere"—in any case the b in "Vanaheim bay" should be capitalized.

Really not much else I see—the title could be a bit bigger but the graphics are really great. Methinks the gameplay will be the hardest part of getting her finished

[iancanton]

one of the most beautiful, and complex-looking maps, that i've seen!

i'm taking my time to try to understand it. why does raider's haven have 5 neutrals? what's the symbol on skull peninsula that looks like a triangle?

ian.

[Kabanellas]

Pikkio – ok, I think I got what you mean.. I’ll try to sort something out...

Killing – the gate symbols are just meant to be a (abstract) representation. To make them pop out from the rocks, getting a more real feeling would mean that I’d have to make them a lot smaller, scaling them down to the size of the mountains. I will capitalize the ‘b’

Ian – Thanks a lot for the support.

Raider’s Haven has 5 neutrals as a result of all the calculations that me and Andrew have done with his adapted calculator.
(I’m posting the calcs below) – there you can see that Raiders Haven has 1 terr – 1 defending terr – 2 attacking terrs - 1 neighbour – and finally 5 neutrals, making a result of 0,51 (if we drop those neutrals to 4 the result would drop to 0,44 – disabling the need for it to hold any bonus)

I can’t find that triangle in Skull Peninsula... is it the eyes of the skull you’re talking about?

Click image to enlarge.

[iancanton]

Raider’s Haven has 5 neutrals as a result of all the calculations that me and Andrew have done with his adapted calculator.

I can’t find that triangle in Skull Peninsula... is it the eyes of the skull you’re talking about?

yes! now that i've found it in the legend, it makes sense.

legend . + 1 tr. auto-deploy --->save space and be clear---> +1 troop auto-deply
or make at least "trp" for troop.

why not eliminate both the spaces and the hyphen, to give +1 troop autodeploy?

I think that one way to reduce the number of symbols is to use the same symbol for all the training grounds. That will get rid off 5 different symbols.

i'm thinking of a development of this idea: not the same symbol for the training grounds, but a symbol to identify something as a settlement easily, without having to look at the legend every time - perhaps elven town, orks' camp and the other settlements can each be surrounded by a circular wooden defensive palisade wall (the palisade in the link below is not circular, but it gives an idea of what i mean).

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/NORQtonbridge.htm

can sea dragon attack hellnor and vice versa?

ian.

[Kabanellas]

-Hellnor can only be reached by ports. Sea Dragon will only bombard Raider's Haven

-Well, I tried to do something like that (drawing some sort of fence), it just doesn't work at this scale..... What if I plant an 's' in each settlement?

Click image to enlarge.

[Kabanellas]

Waiting for Foundry guidance....

[RedBaron0]

You've got a very interesting map which also looks very complicated. I'm sure it'll be great to play once in circulation, but it'll be a little slow to pick up a following. Perhaps playing with the legend, trying a couple different configurations might make it a little easier to understand is something you can consider. I don't think it's bad at all, but not everyone reads map legends when playing, relying on BOB for everything.

The other part of it is there is a Midgard map that kinda fills that Tolken niche, but other than that there are only a few maps that involve magic or magical races. (AOR is a notable exception)

Do what you can to drum up support, and the people will come and take a look.

[porkenbeans]

You've got a very interesting map which also looks very complicated. I'm sure it'll be great to play once in circulation, but it'll be a little slow to pick up a following. Perhaps playing with the legend, trying a couple different configurations might make it a little easier to understand is something you can consider. I don't think it's bad at all, but not everyone reads map legends when playing, relying on BOB for everything.

The other part of it is there is a Midgard map that kinda fills that Tolken niche, but other than that there are only a few maps that involve magic or magical races. (AOR is a notable exception)

Do what you can to drum up support, and the people will come and take a look.

This was my concern as well. If the size of the legend was reduced, it would make for a more popular map. There are just so many different symbols, and this is what makes it complicated. Not that there is anything wrong with that per say, but you could pick up more interest if there were at least 50% less symbols to deal with. However, my favorite maps ARE the complicated ones, so do what you think is right. Check out Prohibition Chicago. It is a complicated map, but not so complicated that it needs 15 different symbols.

[Kabanellas]

Thanks Baron and Porken!

Well, I just don’t know where to cut it off. I find every feature/symbol important to the map both in gameplay and concept.

-I need to have a settlement for every race (Elves, Humans, Orcs, Raiders) – 4 symbols
-every Settlement has to combine with its own military Training Ground – 4 symbols more
-I can’t leave out the Dwarfs - 1 symbol
-neither both Towers – 2 symbols

Other symbols will just spice the history and game-play a bit

-House of Gods
-Raiders’ Haven

I still believe that this is not so complicated that a player couldn’t get into it by reading the legend for a while.

[RedBaron0]

You're probably right Kab, take a look at it again when you get to work primarily on graphics.

As for gameplay, You've assured there can't be a bonus dropped on the start with your starting neutrals. 32 available territories to be divided among the players will mean no matter the game everyone starts with a 3 army territory bonus. Good stuff

It's going to take time to figure out, I keep looking back and forth to make sure I understand it. So the more you explain it to all of us, the more and more we'll all get it. Just from the look of the map the only gameplay issue I can see is the House of the Gods. There isn't any compelling reason to go out there, it's just an +1 auto deploy that can bombard the 2 towers. You can get armies out there, but they can't get off the island. It'd be a nice place to hide... but could create a massive stalemate issue since a player that gets stuck out there can get cards by killing the killer neutrals, or bombarding the towers. Someone out there can just build up cashing card sets and the game could go on forever. Allowing a way off the island that makes sense would be a good idea. A suggestion on that, one of the things that might be missing here that is Tolkenish are the Eagle's; maybe a spot on the mountains for a Eagle's nest or rookery?

Of course I could have missed something that allows for a way off the island. Keep up the good work!

[Kabanellas]

Thanks a lot Baron

I think the HOG (house of gods) will be a pretty balanced feature.... will give 1 a/d bonus (that you can’t take out of there) - on the other side to reach it you’ll have to kill 3+2 neutral troops. Its owner could keep getting a card against any tower, but it’s not like he or she can’t be reached, only 3 neutral killers stand between them and any other power....

As for the Eagles... well... and what about the Ents (those huge ancient trees that destroyed Isengard) – Tolkien world id far too rich to be all represented here

[porkenbeans]

Those trees are my favorite. I just love the whole premise behind them. How they can just set back and watch as the eons roll by. I would love to see them represented somehow, even if they were not a part of the game play, per say. That would go towards their premise of not getting involved, in the petty, insignificant wars and squabbles, of everyone else.

[Kabanellas]

one could always say that they are represented in Logoth by that one way assault…

[RedBaron0]

Ok, then the only concern I have with HOG is going to be, if you're out there, if you lose the rest of your territories on the map, you effectively lose the game, and can be killed at leisure by another player. I'm just afraid if that happens regularly, you'll get those players that are stuck out there just deadbeating since they know they can't win.