[SCBD] Scoreboard for each Game Type

[john9blue]

Concise description:

• The Scoreboard page should have scoreboards for different game types.
  
  
• The main scoreboard should be a composite of the other scoreboards.
  
  
• The composite scoreboards could be arranged in either of two different ways (see below).

Specifics:

• Cicero first suggested this in the Scoring Ad-Hoc, and it was an extremely popular suggestion. With farming on the rise (among other things), I think it should be brought up again.
  
  Here is how it works:
  
  Clicking on the "Scoreboard" link at the top of the page takes you to the "overall" scoreboard, which is the average (or sum) of the following other scoreboards:
  
  -Small Sequential
  -Small Freestyle
  -Large Sequential
  -Large Freestyle
  -Team Sequential
  -Team Freestyle
  
  These scoreboards measure skill in many different areas. It is possible to incorporate the different "spoils" settings, but I left it out in the interest of keeping it simple. Also, if you want to simplify it further by making only Small/Large/Team scoreboards or only Sequential/Freestyle scoreboards, that is an option. Team games should not be given the same weight as all Solo games, since there are far, far more solo games than team games.
  
  By "small", I mean 2-4 player solo, and by "large", I mean 5-8 player solo. Any given game will count for only one of these scoreboards. It will be no small feat to be in the top 10 of one of them. Here is an example:
  
  My score is 2000 in the "Large Sequential" category. I beat six New Recruits in a 7 player sequential game, each with a score of 1000 in the category. I gain 10 points from each of them, which brings my total to 2060. My overall score would rise by 10.
  
  Additionally, there could be sequential, freestyle, small, large, and team scoreboards, which would be composites of the respective more specific scoreboards, but not count towards the overall score. This is optional, though.
  
  Here is how the transition period will work (and remember, this is open for suggestions): Players can choose one of the six scoreboards to place their current points in. They will start with a score of 1000 in the other scoreboards. If a player has not played a certain game type in 90 days, or 3 months, or whatever time period we decide on, they are taken off the corresponding scoreboard. Their score remains for the next time they play those settings, but for the purposes of calculating an overall score, it is automatically set to 1000.
  
  
• Alternative Idea: The overall scoreboard could also be represented as the average of these scoreboards:
  
  -Sequential
  -Freestyle
  -Small
  -Large
  -Team
  
  if you want to place less emphasis on the turn order, and more emphasis on the game size. The overall scoreboard would then be a composite of these five. Each game would count towards two of these scoreboards, so there would be two separate point transfers at the end of each game.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:

• Farmers will achieve greatness on their respective scoreboards if they want to, but will not take the top spots on other scoreboards that other players worked hard (probably harder than the farmers) to win.
  
  
• New players will not feel daunted by the single huge scoreboard, and will have a slightly more manageable goal in rising to the top of one of the smaller scoreboards.
  
  
• I should note that this is not purely self-beneficial, because I play very few team games. However, I do play all other game types on a regular basis, and I think that an overall scoreboard would be appreciated by those who challenge themselves to master every game type.
  
  
• This will probably bring about a decrease in farming. This will make new players more likely to stay, as they are not being harvested by farmers. This, in turn, will lead to a more active site.
  
  
• Many people find themselves "plateauing" on the current scoreboard, and may lose interest in the site. This gives players more of a reason to stay, because there are six different scoreboards to conquer.
  
  
• Battle Royales will rocket people to the top of the Large Freestyle scoreboard, but it won't shift everyone down a notch on the other scoreboards. Someone can have their moment of glory without punishing everyone else.
  
  
• The Overall scoreboard will probably not have scores in the upper 5000 range like they do now, so new players will not be overwhelmed by what seems to be an unattainable goal.
  
  
• Besides keeping more new players on the site, this will slow inflation in another way. If a New Recruit plays in two different styles and quits, they have only affected 1/3 of the scoreboard. Thus, the points that are trickled up will not matter as much.
  
  
• A player's rank will be their Overall rank. There will be no need to worry about making new ranks to adjust for inflation, since the current ones will service the Overall scoreboard for years to come.
  
  
• The Overall scoreboard would be much more of an indicator of actual skill than the current one.

[porkenbeans]

Concise description:

• The Scoreboard page should have scoreboards for different game types.
  
  
• The main scoreboard should be a composite of the other scoreboards.
  
  
• The composite scoreboards could be arranged in either of two different ways (see below).

Specifics:

• Cicero first suggested this in the Scoring Ad-Hoc, and it was an extremely popular suggestion. With farming on the rise (among other things), I think it should be brought up again.
  
  Here is how it works:
  
  Clicking on the "Scoreboard" link at the top of the page takes you to the "overall" scoreboard, which is the average (or sum) of the following other scoreboards:
  
  -Small Sequential
  -Small Freestyle
  -Large Sequential
  -Large Freestyle
  -Team Sequential
  -Team Freestyle
  
  These scoreboards measure skill in many different areas. It is possible to incorporate the different "spoils" settings, but I left it out in the interest of keeping it simple. Also, if you want to simplify it further by making only Small/Large/Team scoreboards or only Sequential/Freestyle scoreboards, that is an option. Team games should not be given the same weight as all Solo games, since there are far, far more solo games than team games.
  
  By "small", I mean 2-4 player solo, and by "large", I mean 5-8 player solo. Any given game will count for only one of these scoreboards. It will be no small feat to be in the top 10 of one of them. Here is an example:
  
  My score is 2000 in the "Large Sequential" category. I beat six New Recruits in a 7 player sequential game, each with a score of 1000 in the category. I gain 10 points from each of them, which brings my total to 2060. My overall score would rise by 10.
  
  Additionally, there could be sequential, freestyle, small, large, and team scoreboards, which would be composites of the respective more specific scoreboards, but not count towards the overall score. This is optional, though.
  
  Here is how the transition period will work (and remember, this is open for suggestions): Players can choose one of the six scoreboards to place their current points in. They will start with a score of 1000 in the other scoreboards. If a player has not played a certain game type in 90 days, or 3 months, or whatever time period we decide on, they are taken off the corresponding scoreboard. Their score remains for the next time they play those settings, but for the purposes of calculating an overall score, it is automatically set to 1000.
  
  
• Alternative Idea: The overall scoreboard could also be represented as the average of these scoreboards:
  
  -Sequential
  -Freestyle
  -Small
  -Large
  -Team
  
  if you want to place less emphasis on the turn order, and more emphasis on the game size. The overall scoreboard would then be a composite of these five. Each game would count towards two of these scoreboards, so there would be two separate point transfers at the end of each game.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:

• Farmers will achieve greatness on their respective scoreboards if they want to, but will not take the top spots on other scoreboards that other players worked hard (probably harder than the farmers) to win.
  
  
• New players will not feel daunted by the single huge scoreboard, and will have a slightly more manageable goal in rising to the top of one of the smaller scoreboards.
  
  
• I should note that this is not purely self-beneficial, because I play very few team games. However, I do play all other game types on a regular basis, and I think that an overall scoreboard would be appreciated by those who challenge themselves to master every game type.
  
  
• This will probably bring about a decrease in farming. This will make new players more likely to stay, as they are not being harvested by farmers. This, in turn, will lead to a more active site.
  
  
• Many people find themselves "plateauing" on the current scoreboard, and may lose interest in the site. This gives players more of a reason to stay, because there are six different scoreboards to conquer.
  
  
• Battle Royales will rocket people to the top of the Large Freestyle scoreboard, but it won't shift everyone down a notch on the other scoreboards. Someone can have their moment of glory without punishing everyone else.
  
  
• The Overall scoreboard will probably not have scores in the upper 5000 range like they do now, so new players will not be overwhelmed by what seems to be an unattainable goal.
  
  
• Besides keeping more new players on the site, this will slow inflation in another way. If a New Recruit plays in two different styles and quits, they have only affected 1/3 of the scoreboard. Thus, the points that are trickled up will not matter as much.
  
  
• A player's rank will be their Overall rank. There will be no need to worry about making new ranks to adjust for inflation, since the current ones will service the Overall scoreboard for years to come.
  
  
• The Overall scoreboard would be much more of an indicator of actual skill than the current one.

This idea has been shot down too many times to count. But I must admit that I have NEVER seen it presented in a more well thought out way. KUDOS, and I love the idea.

[john9blue]

This idea has been shot down too many times to count. But I must admit that I have NEVER seen it presented in a more well thought out way. KUDOS, and I love the idea.

Has it? I did a quick search, and the only thing I found was a simple idea for separate solo/team scoreboards, which was rejected because lack couldn't recalculate all the scores, which wouldn't be necessary here. It was in the "Rejected" pile (right next to [game] tags, LOL).

[Natewolfman]

ya it *unfortunately* has been shot down a few times... I think we should have a scoreboard that could be seprated out however you want similar to the game finder

put in any group of settings or maps and it calculates who is at the top, you will be able to see who is the best at anything *shrugs* but what are you going to do?

[porkenbeans]

ya it *unfortunately* has been shot down a few times... I think we should have a scoreboard that could be seprated out however you want similar to the game finder

put in any group of settings or maps and it calculates who is at the top, you will be able to see who is the best at anything *shrugs* but what are you going to do?

Yes my brother, The new MAP RANK does already have some of this info. I would love to see it grow to encompass this data as well. As a matter of fat I woud like to see them put an install button for the MAP RANK, on the homepage. viewtopic.php?f=59&t=64678&start=135#p1598951

[sully800]

I have always supported a new scoring system with multiple scoreboards. If it means everyone needs to have their points reset I still support the change. The current scoreboard system has stagnated in my opinion. People are disenfranchised because they feel like the people at the top get there by unfair methods.

If you had built in single/team/freestyle/2 player scoreboards people would be willing to try new game types to get to the top in each...and the combined scoreboard would still give the overall current rankings as we have them. And there would be justification for those who like to specialize in a certain area already because they would be able to point to there own niche scoreboard as proof of excellence.

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

I have always supported a new scoring system with multiple scoreboards. If it means everyone needs to have their points reset I still support the change. The current scoreboard system has stagnated in my opinion. People are disenfranchised because they feel like the people at the top get there by unfair methods.

If you had built in single/team/freestyle/2 player scoreboards people would be willing to try new game types to get to the top in each...and the combined scoreboard would still give the overall current rankings as we have them. And there would be justification for those who like to specialize in a certain area already because they would be able to point to there own niche scoreboard as proof of excellence.

get rid of the scoreboard completely

[poo-maker]

I'm all for this new scoreboard. It will inject a little more competition into the site among other things.

Here is how the transition period will work (and remember, this is open for suggestions): Players can choose one of the six scoreboards to place their current points in. They will start with a score of 1000 in the other scoreboards. If a player has not played a certain game type in 90 days, or 3 months, or whatever time period we decide on, they are taken off the corresponding scoreboard. Their score remains for the next time they play those settings, but for the purposes of calculating an overall score, it is automatically set to 1000.

I'm not so sure about this part of the suggestion. It is pretty well known that winning points in seq esc 6-8 player is much harder than winning in any version of speed freestyle. If a speed freestyler were to stick their 3000+ points into the large player sec scoreboard, it would scew it and the chances are that only a few players playing large player sec would be able to catch it (by playing large player sec after the new scoreboard was implemented).

I'm all for a points reset across the board. Of course, there should be something in peoples profiles to show that they had past experience in the old scoreboard. But, other than that, i say we should scrap the current version. Completely .

edit: Forgot to say well done to the Scoring Ad-Hoc. Fantastic suggestion.

[the.killing.44]

I second (more like ~ninth) this idea.

[OliverFA]

I have always supported a new scoring system with multiple scoreboards. If it means everyone needs to have their points reset I still support the change. The current scoreboard system has stagnated in my opinion. People are disenfranchised because they feel like the people at the top get there by unfair methods.

If you had built in single/team/freestyle/2 player scoreboards people would be willing to try new game types to get to the top in each...and the combined scoreboard would still give the overall current rankings as we have them. And there would be justification for those who like to specialize in a certain area already because they would be able to point to there own niche scoreboard as proof of excellence.

In my opinion, there is no need to reset current scores. Just give everybody their current score in all the boards. Then, given enough time, all the boards will reflect the apropiate score.

Yes, there will be a transition time in which the partial boards will not reflect the actual scores, but this period would last no more than 30 days, and no one would be pissed because they lost their points.

[porkenbeans]

I have always supported a new scoring system with multiple scoreboards. If it means everyone needs to have their points reset I still support the change. The current scoreboard system has stagnated in my opinion. People are disenfranchised because they feel like the people at the top get there by unfair methods.

If you had built in single/team/freestyle/2 player scoreboards people would be willing to try new game types to get to the top in each...and the combined scoreboard would still give the overall current rankings as we have them. And there would be justification for those who like to specialize in a certain area already because they would be able to point to there own niche scoreboard as proof of excellence.

Wow I must say that, I am shocked, but pleased by your stance.
I am so glad that all of us dis-enfranchised players are being heard. And that some have been, not only listening, but UNDERSTANDING.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

[porkenbeans]

I have always supported a new scoring system with multiple scoreboards. If it means everyone needs to have their points reset I still support the change. The current scoreboard system has stagnated in my opinion. People are disenfranchised because they feel like the people at the top get there by unfair methods.

If you had built in single/team/freestyle/2 player scoreboards people would be willing to try new game types to get to the top in each...and the combined scoreboard would still give the overall current rankings as we have them. And there would be justification for those who like to specialize in a certain area already because they would be able to point to there own niche scoreboard as proof of excellence.

Wow I must say that, I am shocked, but pleased by your stance.
I am so glad that all of us dis-enfranchised players are being heard. And that some have been, not only listening, but UNDERSTANDING.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU.

Sully, I have an idea for small quick fix for starters -
Give color codes to all names on the Leaderboard, That represent their map rank status.
So, GLADIATORS could be gold, and EQs' could be red, PH. could be grey, and black for N.F.
This seems to me, to be a relatively easy thing to do. And the benefit would be enormous.

[sully800]

Contact the script writers about that porkenbeans. Since maprank is not a CC feature, coloring names by the maprank statistics will not be either. But I'm sure the java-savvy users out there would be able to make such a script if desired.

I fear it may take a lot of work actually, since the maprank program calcs a new rank every time you call it. To display colors on the scoreboard you would have to call the maprank of all the visible users at once. Doesn't seem like it would work very well.

[porkenbeans]

Contact the script writers about that porkenbeans. Since maprank is not a CC feature, coloring names by the maprank statistics will not be either. But I'm sure the java-savvy users out there would be able to make such a script if desired.

I fear it may take a lot of work actually, since the maprank program calcs a new rank every time you call it. To display colors on the scoreboard you would have to call the maprank of all the visible users at once. Doesn't seem like it would work very well.

Who wrote M.R. script ? I would indeed like to talk to them. Tnx.

[sully800]

loooks like chipv

you should read trhough this thread first to catch up on the develoment to date viewtopic.php?f=59&t=64678 i know you are very interested

[porkenbeans]

loooks like chipv

you should read through this thread first to catch up on the development to date viewtopic.php?f=59&t=64678 i know you are very interested

I am afraid most of it is french to me. But I will try. Thanx Sully.

[Woodruff]

ya it *unfortunately* has been shot down a few times... I think we should have a scoreboard that could be seprated out however you want similar to the game finder
put in any group of settings or maps and it calculates who is at the top, you will be able to see who is the best at anything *shrugs* but what are you going to do?

This would be precisely ideal, in my view. Which means there's no chance.

[porkenbeans]

ya it *unfortunately* has been shot down a few times... I think we should have a scoreboard that could be seprated out however you want similar to the game finder
put in any group of settings or maps and it calculates who is at the top, you will be able to see who is the best at anything *shrugs* but what are you going to do?

This would be precisely ideal, in my view. Which means there's no chance.

Agreed, but chip seems to be more concerned with hurting the feelings of the farmers. I wish that he would just stick to the facts, and Let others try to interpret them.

[chipv]

ya it *unfortunately* has been shot down a few times... I think we should have a scoreboard that could be seprated out however you want similar to the game finder
put in any group of settings or maps and it calculates who is at the top, you will be able to see who is the best at anything *shrugs* but what are you going to do?

This would be precisely ideal, in my view. Which means there's no chance.

Agreed, but chip seems to be more concerned with hurting the feelings of the farmers. I wish that he would just stick to the facts, and Let others try to interpret them.

Where is your evidence for this rather personal statement? I haven't even commented in this thread.

You want to stick to the facts?

We cannot have multiple scoreboards without a complete rescore. We cannot have a compete rescore because we have missing logs.

Why?

Every point movement is dependent on all the previous scores so you cannot get an independent score per game type.

The points won in a particular game depends on the losing player's scores. Their scores are dependent on their point gain/losses
in previous games which may or may not be of a completely different game type.

This is a function of the scoring system and that is why this has been shot down, do your homework next time you want to make an accusation like this.

[Qwert]

Mine idea of MVP of monts,still not refused,and waiting more oppinions,and he is based on present calculation,but points is calculated for one month,and after that hes reset to 0 and again procedures is same.
Multiple scoreboards will be to much,i think.

[chipv]

Mine idea of MVP of monts,still not refused,and waiting more oppinions,and he is based on present calculation,but points is calculated for one month,and after that hes reset to 0 and again procedures is same.
Multiple scoreboards will be to much,i think.

This is an excellent suggestion, and also possible, where is the thread again?

[john9blue]

We cannot have multiple scoreboards without a complete rescore. We cannot have a compete rescore because we have missing logs.

Sure we can. In fact, I addressed this in my OP. I said:

Here is how the transition period will work (and remember, this is open for suggestions): Players can choose one of the six scoreboards to place their current points in. They will start with a score of 1000 in the other scoreboards. If a player has not played a certain game type in 90 days, or 3 months, or whatever time period we decide on, they are taken off the corresponding scoreboard. Their score remains for the next time they play those settings, but for the purposes of calculating an overall score, it is automatically set to 1000.

Poo made a good point, though, so I'm going to scrap that idea and propose that the new scoreboards will all have the score of 1000+ ( (current score - 1000) /6). Basically, the number of points that someone has gained/lost throughout their career will be evenly distributed throughout the scoreboards. So, someone with a score of 2200 would start off with 1200 on all 6 scoreboards. Or, we could divide by 2, so that the 2200 person would start off with 1600 in every scoreboard. That might be better.

Or, if you really want to be accurate, you could take the percentage of a person's games that are a certain game type (e.g. 25% large sequential, 50% large freestyle, 25% small sequential), and distribute the point change that way. So, someone like that with a score of 2200 would start with 1300 on SS and LS, and 1600 on LF. I don't think we've lost the game settings, have we?