Account sitting abuse - Chariot of Fire, Pedronicus [warned]

by **eddie2** on Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:16 am

the case with you and blitz had ongoing games on a weekly or 2 period going back the full amount of time to the present date. this case has a 7 month difference between the old and new. games november to may is the time difference between game times and you have only provided evidence for the old side of the games. not the up to date ones.

by **Bones2484** on Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:17 am

Josko on my wall wrote:I wonder how silent you are now in this CA thread. you stated many times that your point is fighting for defined rules and has nothing to do against KORT, so now you have great chance to continue your mission to fight for following that rule principles but for some reason you are very silent this time. all that make me think that your motive was not fighting for defined rules but was fight to screw josko/KORT.

First of all, f*ck off Josko. This has been posted in C&A for one day and I've either been at work or sleeping for about 18 hours it's been up. The other 6 I haven't even been home.

Second of all, it took us four weeks to compile evidence and research it against you and KORT. How do you possibly want me to respond to data you have presented in less than a day when I'm not even home? Especially when the game logs were broken for most of the first day and I wasn't even able to look into the data you had presented. From the quick looks I had taken at your evidence, it appeared strong but you really seemed to exaggerate some of the "timeframes". Meaning, you say "1.5 hours" when in reality it was more like "4-5". This is why I wanted to view the game logs myself, because I do not trust you (plus I needed to convert the times to my time zone to make it easier on my brain). Do you really think I'm going to immediately throw my support behind something that I haven't had time to research myself?

Don't forget that what made compiling evidence against you (and especially Rodion) so easy was that we had an admission in game chat about what you guys are doing. I haven't seen that here, yet, so I'd be interested to see TOFU's defense... though it appears they won't be posting it publicly which is a shame.

And finally, I'll say this: If the case you have presented is true (and I have no idea if it is because I haven't looked at it), then CoF/Pedro should get punished just like a few of you did. If someone is cheating, I hope they are caught. But since you've decided to be such a pain in the ass to me and various members of my clan since you posted this thread, I have zero interest in helping you.

by **Evil Semp** on Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:36 am

Time to cool down. I am going to lock this until tomorrow hoping cooler heads will prevail. when it is unlocked please only post with new evidence for or against the accused. Also please do not start another thread.

by **Evil Semp** on Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:25 am

OK let's keep it on topic.

by **josko.ri** on Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:44 am

Evil Semp wrote:OK let's keep it on topic.

thanks for unlocking, I am just completing additional evidence so will add that to the first post soon.

I see on my wall and on forum many messages that this should be irrelevant abuse because evidence is mostly old several months. so I want to add that during the process of the case against me I was being especially asked (by mods) to defend my sitting for #1_stunna from June 2010 (1 year old).

so, if 1 year old evidence was very relevant in the case against me and was something that I needed to give answers about, then I do not see why old data in this case should be irrelevant. otherwise it will just confirm my doubts that on the site exist double standards about enforcing the rules, which depend about who is accused and not about evidence shown.

by **Rodion** on Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:29 pm

Chuuuuck wrote:A full defense, via PM, will be coming from all involved proving that this report should be cleared with no punishment AFTER he returns from vacation. Now that all of the evidence has been posted and it is known there will be no public defense, there is little more to be said here. I would ask that everyone please refrain from posting in this thread unless you are posting actual facts about the case with game links and more.

Interesting. Legally, it's absolutely understandable that you'll prefer to make your defense via PM as to not allow the "court of public opinion" to taint the trial.

viewtopic.php?p=3214443#p3214443

Morally, however, it shows an iffy position at best, as the above link shows your opinion was 180º different when your clan sided with the accusers.

by **Serbia** on Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:45 pm

Rodion wrote:
Chuuuuck wrote:A full defense, via PM, will be coming from all involved proving that this report should be cleared with no punishment AFTER he returns from vacation. Now that all of the evidence has been posted and it is known there will be no public defense, there is little more to be said here. I would ask that everyone please refrain from posting in this thread unless you are posting actual facts about the case with game links and more.

Interesting. Legally, it's absolutely understandable that you'll prefer to make your defense via PM as to not allow the "court of public opinion" to taint the trial.

viewtopic.php?p=3214443#p3214443

Morally, however, it shows an iffy position at best, as the above link shows your opinion was 180º different when your clan sided with the accusers.

In keeping with your "legal" analogy, precedence has been established in the KORT case, allowing that a private defense is perfectly acceptable. Now I personally disagree with that decision, however, I don't see why ANYONE would EVER make a public defense anymore, based on the KORT case alone. My feelings on this case are the same as the KORT case - if the public is meant to make public accusation, because the C&A hunters will not be looking for this type of abuse unless it is presented to them, then the defense should be made public, in it's totality. This didn't happen with KORT, and I see no reason why TOFU will be compelled to make it public either. (regardless of what I'd prefer to see)

Also, I will reiterate what other members of my clan have said: if it's proven that Chariot of Fire, and other members of his clan, have abused the Account Sitting Guidelines, then they need to be punished for it. Knowing how long it took members of G1 to accumulate data for their report, it's impossible for us to comment on the evidence given without researching it ourselves. We are not required to comment, or research, and my personal position is to let this be solved by the C&A mods, who have been showing themselves quite capable in reaching good decisions.

by **eddie2** on Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:46 pm

well if i made a rteport and backed up abuse from 10 months ago i would of been done for spuriouis report.

get a life and show present claims not revenge ones

g1 reported you not tofu

by **Bones2484** on Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:02 pm

eddie2 wrote:g1 reported you not tofu

Stop making this into a clan battle. This is certain members violating certain rules and being reported by other members.

by **Metsfanmax** on Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:07 pm

Serbia wrote:In keeping with your "legal" analogy, precedence has been established in the KORT case, allowing that a private defense is perfectly acceptable.

This precedent existed previously. There was no rule that required people to publicly defend their actions in the C&A thread. People just chose to do so because they didn't much think it mattered where they placed the defense.

Now I personally disagree with that decision, however, I don't see why ANYONE would EVER make a public defense anymore, based on the KORT case alone. My feelings on this case are the same as the KORT case - if the public is meant to make public accusation, because the C&A hunters will not be looking for this type of abuse unless it is presented to them, then the defense should be made public, in it's totality. This didn't happen with KORT, and I see no reason why TOFU will be compelled to make it public either. (regardless of what I'd prefer to see)

The people in that thread were arguing that if all the evidence is on the table, a more fair verdict will be reached (ostensibly -- why else would you want the defense published?). This would be their chance to prove that very sentiment. If they refuse to publish it, that's obviously fine, but it means they also don't really believe that the best decision is reached if the public gets a chance to comment on the defense.

by **lord voldemort** on Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:49 am

Thats why something like this should of been submitted by e-tix.
It was intentionally posted in a forum to garner support and controversy. As was the other case against josko...
TL;DR too much e penis

by **Ace Rimmer** on Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:31 am

josko.ri wrote:I am just completing additional evidence so will add that to the first post soon.

Please post a reply as well so those of us that have this bookmarked know when you've updated the first post.

by **lokisgal** on Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:17 am

I dont think this is a case of revenge its to point out that there are many people who sit beyond the rules of CC and that if one person is going to get warned then everyone else should as well.
RE the eticky filing one makes it way to easy to sweep things under the rug that way so public is the way to go

by **lord voldemort** on Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:19 am

I trust King Achilles...the guy who usually answers the most e-tix...to not shift it under the rug

by **drunkmonkey** on Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:36 am

You can argue that this should have started as an e-ticket, but it can't go there now. Josko has been branded a cheater by CC, and is now viewed by the community as one. Why should everyone who did the exact same thing be privately accused, while he remains the pariah?

It's not about revenge, it's about removing the undeserved stigma.

by **Serbia** on Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:38 am

drunkmonkey wrote:You can argue that this should have started as an e-ticket, but it can't go there now. Josko has been branded a cheater by CC, and is now viewed by the community as one. Why should everyone who did the exact same thing be privately accused, while he remains the pariah?

I'm going to agree with this. The whole C&A forum exists to make public accusations. If there are others who are cheating in the same way, then publicly accuse them, and have them be publicly punished if found guilty. It's the only way to go.

by **josko.ri** on Tue Jul 05, 2011 9:42 am

eddie2 wrote:get a life and show present claims not revenge ones

g1 reported you not tofu

I do not see how this is revenge. if I wanted revenge, I would report Bones2484 as he reported me, not Chariot or Pedronicus. one of 2 players accused here, Pedronicus, posted zero posts in the case against me, so I do not see why I would revenge to someone who in any way did not participated in the case against me.

my motivation is my wish that everyone who did the same way of cheating get equal punishment. is it so high expectation? and speaking about my motivation in any way does not help this case. my motivation is here irrelevant. the only relevant here should be accusing arguments from the first post and defensive arguments.

(@ jake- I will notify in thread when I add new evidence)

by **Frop** on Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:07 am

Five pages of petty insults and other bullshit. Is there actually anything relevant to the case?

by **jackal31** on Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:28 am

drunkmonkey wrote:It's not about revenge, it's about removing the undeserved stigma.

LOL.....good luck with that. After all the personal vendetta's that have gone on here for the last few months, that is going to be hard to wash off.

Whats really disgusting is people cant play this site and have fun doing it anymore. Its turning into a political battle.

by **Dako** on Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:48 am

Let's not use the term cheater (A person who acts dishonestly in order to gain an advantage) but use abuser instead (Someone who regularly or habitually abuses someone or something, in particular).

So josko is not a cheater, he abused account sitting. CoF + Pedro are not accused of cheating, they are accused of sitting abuse. Cheating is far worse, and I do not remember many cases where players actually cheated the system dishonestly. So do not label people as cheaters when they do not deserve to be called that.

by **Chuuuuck** on Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:40 am

It is pretty amazing how bad the mods are at actually doing their jobs here. They claim, "keep things on topic" and only post things if they are relevant to the case, but in reality I guess they don't mean that at all. I just went through and read every post in this thread and I think there were maybe 3 actual posts that belonged in this thread and actually discussed evidence against the accused or their defense.

I will come out and openly admit that I have flagged nearly every post in this thread for trolling and asked for notification when something is done about it and they have not done a thing about any of the posts.

Almost every post here has started off with "I think" or something along those lines and has went off and talked about this being revenge or compared this to the josko case. All of which is 100% irrelevant to the case at hand. If people want to discuss this the way they are, they can make a thread in GD or the clan forums and talk about it all they want, the right way... where I will NEVER go to read it. Unfortunately, I have to read this thread as it is supposed to pertain to the facts and the case against my clan, but I have to waste over half an hour of my time reading useless shit because THE MODERATORS fail to moderate anything. Locking the thread, then unlocking it and allowing it to go straight back to off topic posts does not constitute as doing anything. Warn the people who make off topic posts, follow whatever rules you supposedly have in place and then give them forum bans so we can limit the amount of crap that has to be read by those of us who just want to enjoy this site and not spend hours in dumbass political banter.

I have always held the opinion that this is a great site and defended against those that complained too much, but I am starting to join their argument that this is turning into too much crap and a waste of time to be enjoyable anymore. I respect the job you all have to do here and completely believe you will make a fair judgement on this case, just quit choosing to selectively do your job and in the process wasting my time with all of the crap I have to read here. If you find the members of my clan guilty, great, I am okay with that, shit happens, we will move on, eventually most of us will probably quit the site anyway because it has become more frustrating than fun. You making me read all of this off topic posts for the 1-2 relevant posts that exists only adds to that frustration.

So, I will say it again, I am now going to go through and report every single post again that is not on topic with the evidence in this case in hopes that you do your job and get these off topic posts out of here so it quits wasting my time. That way, if someone decides they want to waste an hour of their time, they can go read the opinion thread that should start in General Discussion. And those of us that decide this is a waste of their lives, but want to help put a defense together, we can come here and read the 4 actual relevant posts here in about 5 min. and go on with our lives.

by **Foxglove** on Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:39 pm

Chuuuuck wrote:It is pretty amazing how bad the mods are at actually doing their jobs here. They claim, "keep things on topic" and only post things if they are relevant to the case, but in reality I guess they don't mean that at all. I just went through and read every post in this thread and I think there were maybe 3 actual posts that belonged in this thread and actually discussed evidence against the accused or their defense.

This is a fairly consistent behavior, no matter how many times requests are made
for modly intervention.

And I agree - CC is no longer fun.

by **lord voldemort** on Tue Jul 05, 2011 12:52 pm

tooo many links foxy...and if you arent having fun...maybe you need to get with some fun people

by **JOHNNYROCKET24** on Tue Jul 05, 2011 2:27 pm

I just found it odd that examples 3 and 4 involved a game with Blitzaholic.

by **Crazyirishman** on Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:19 pm

I think its pretty bad when someone spends more time making posts and finding evidence about somebody in the games then actually playing the games themselves. This whole thing is pathetic, just like the last one was. The whole 'this guy a turn for his friend at a time when another guy was capable of taking a turn but didn't, let sick the hound dogs on em' mentality is something you'd expect from the 12 year olds on the site, not the 'established players in establish clans'. I mean really at some point you have to get your priorities straight. What a bunch of lifers we got here.